3 point hitch wont lift

[ronr]

Moving the selector valve to the position shown in the picture will take the loader completely out of the circuit.

Dan

View attachment 78158

I have closed the selector valve and turned the loader hydraulics off completely. If it made a difference, it's barely noticeable. If i understand the plumbing part you described correctly, that eliminates the lines being plumbed incorrectly? I probably won't get a chance to get a Guage connected until the weekend but I will post the results.

 

[PoTreeBoy]

Crud holding the relief poppet in that diverter open would kill pump pressure. I almost always start with a pump output pressure test.

Dan

Yeah, but the loader works when the diverter is open.
I agree with the pressure gauge. I'll just watch and learn.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Yeah, but the loader works when the diverter is open.
I agree with the pressure gauge. I'll just watch and learn.

I guess I have lost track of what does and does not work in this maze. The loader won't raise and curl at the same time does not sound like it works to me.

Dan

 

[ronr]

I guess I have lost track of what does and does not work in this maze. The loader won't raise and curl at the same time does not sound like it works to me.

Dan

ill have to rely on someone else's expertise here. No it won't raise and curl at the same time. Tractor is new to me, I didn't think that was a symptom I thought it was normal. Should this tractor be capable of doing both?

 

[TheOldHokie]

Yes and when loaded.

Dan

 

[ronr]

Yes and when loaded.

Dan

Ok, well that adds a symptom to the equation and maybe leads towards concerns of the pump itself? I'll post the results of the pressure test. Thanks again for all the insight.

 

[torch]

If I understand correctly, the loader has lots of pressure going in, but little pressure coming out and on to the 3ph? Seems to me the problem is at the FEL control. Does the FEL control have 3 hoses (not counting the ones to the cylinders themselves)? One from the diverter, one to the tank and one back to the diverter and from there on to the 3ph? I wonder if there is an issue with the Power Beyond port. Perhaps a missing adapter or perhaps reversal of the PB and T hoses?

 

[ronr]

If I understand correctly, the loader has lots of pressure going in, but little pressure coming out and on to the 3ph? Seems to me the problem is at the FEL control. Does the FEL control have 3 hoses (not counting the ones to the cylinders themselves)? One from the diverter, one to the tank and one back to the diverter and from there on to the 3ph? I wonder if there is an issue with the Power Beyond port. Perhaps a missing adapter or perhaps reversal of the PB and T hoses?

Only two lines from the valve assy that's mounted on the pump go to the loader part. I presume that's supply and return to and from the loader spools

 

[TheOldHokie]

Ok, well that adds a symptom to the equation and maybe leads towards concerns of the pump itself? I'll post the results of the pressure test. Thanks again for all the insight.

If I understand correctly, the loader has lots of pressure going in, but little pressure coming out and on to the 3ph? Seems to me the problem is at the FEL control. Does the FEL control have 3 hoses (not counting the ones to the cylinders themselves)? One from the diverter, one to the tank and one back to the diverter and from there on to the 3ph? I wonder if there is an issue with the Power Beyond port. Perhaps a missing adapter or perhaps reversal of the PB and T hoses?

Once again flogging long dead and now severely lacerated equine one more time.

If my engine won't crank the first thing I do is get my voltmeter out and check battery voltage.

Hydraulics are much the same. Nobody has established there is good (1500+ PSI) pressure at the loader inlet. Its at best assumed and in reality a hopeful guess. Measure it and we will know. If there is then measure the outlet side and we will know that number as well. A third pressure test point is the PS outlet. The divider appears to be a pressure compensated priority flow divider. Looking at the parts diageram it is simply a cartridge installed in the bottom port on the selector valve. The manual steering machines have a plug in that port.

Guessing and assumptions get you nowhere fast. Reliable measurements get you to the solution a lot faster. Test equipment is cheap - the gauge and valve in this picture cost less than $40.

Dan

 

[Henro]

ill have to rely on someone else's expertise here. No it won't raise and curl at the same time. Tractor is new to me, I didn't think that was a symptom I thought it was normal. Should this tractor be capable of doing both?

Yes and when loaded.

Dan

I don't know the OP's tractor, and I don't remember all the details of this thread.

BUT I do remember that some tractors, maybe even some Kubota models, will not allow the bucket to curl and loader to lift at the same time. One function or the other.

The ONLY reason I believe this is because of what I have read here at OTT. My loader will lift and curl at the same time, and I would not want one that did not. But those animals seem to be out there...

So I think saying that the OP's loader should be capable of lifting and curling the bucket at the same time could possibly be incorrect. But maybe Dan has knowledge of the OP's tractor, and it is one that should be able to curl and lift at the same time. Is this the case?

Just a question derived from knowledge gained at OTT.

 

[TheOldHokie]

I don't know the OP's tractor, and I don't remember all the details of this thread.

BUT I do remember that some tractors, maybe even some Kubota models, will not allow the bucket to curl and loader to lift at the same time. One function or the other.

The ONLY reason I believe this is because of what I have read here at OTT. My loader will lift and curl at the same time, and I would not want one that did not. But those animals seem to be out there...

So I think saying that the OP's loader should be capable of lifting and curling the bucket at the same time could possibly be incorrect. But maybe Dan has knowledge of the OP's tractor, and it is one that should be able to curl and lift at the same time. Is this the case?

Just a question derived from knowledge gained at OTT.

That would be a function of the loader valve and I have never seen one that behaved like that. Even my ancient B1630 loader will dump and curl at the same time. According to KPAD his tractor would have had a LA300 on it. They provide no details on the valve other than it is a two spool monoblock valve with joystick control.

Loader valves are typically of the parallel circuit type where the spools all tee off the same pressure line allowing them to operate simultaneously. In that design it is possible for one actuator to momentarily stall and then resume as the loads even out but its not an all or none behavior.

On the newer model loaders Kubota has the boom spool in series with the bucket spool. In this design the exhaust oil from the boom cylinder is fed back to the bucket spool so that the cylinders can't stall. The operation of my LA525 is extremely smooth and even and a noticeable improvement over the B1630.

One spool totally blocking the other would be a horrible loader design with no discernible benefit that I can see. Fully loading the bucket would be difficult and it would also make the joystick control useless. So I think it highly unlikely that is normal behavior and more likely a secondary effect of his 3pt problem.

But this is just more speculation - the testing should clear up some of the confusion as to what is actually happening.

Dan

 

[Henro]

That would be a function of the loader valve and I have never seen one that behaved like that. Even my ancient B1630 loader will dump and curl at the same time. According to KPAD his tractor would have had a LA300 on it. They provide no details on the valve other than it is a two spool monoblock valve with joystick control.

Loader valves are typically of the parallel circuit type where the spools all tee off the same pressure line allowing them to operate simultaneously. In that design it is possible for one actuator to momentarily stall and then resume as the loads even out but its not an all or none behavior.

On the newer model loaders Kubota has the boom spool in series with the bucket spool. In this design the exhaust oil from the boom cylinder is fed back to the bucket spool so that the cylinders can't stall. The operation of my LA525 is extremely smooth and even and a noticeable improvement over the B1630.

One spool totally blocking the other would be a horrible loader design with no discernible benefit that I can see. Fully loading the bucket would be difficult and it would also make the joystick control useless. So I think it highly unlikely that is normal behavior and more likely a secondary effect of his 3pt problem.

But this is just more speculation - the testing should clear up some of the confusion as to what is actually happening.

Dan

As I mentioned, I was only going by reports I read here.

I would guess you are exactly correct Dan, and people posting otherwise just did not know how to operate their loaders using the control stick, in order to get two functions working at the same time.

For me it is simple...and natural.

 

[TheOldHokie]

As I mentioned, I was only going by reports I read here.

I would guess you are exactly correct Dan, and people posting otherwise just did not know how to operate their loaders using the control stick, in order to get two functions working at the same time.

For me it is simple...and natural.

I do not know what other people do or how reliable their reports are. But my description of the operation of a loader valve is representative of the design used on any loader I have ever seen.

Dan