Ford Lightning all Electric Truck

Jchonline

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ok now.... for those of us ordering the new Ford Lightning all electric truck it will come with the Ford PRO electric charger free of charge. (yeah!!)

Great news in that where I am I am not on a "grid" for electrical power and suffer lots of power outages. Our village has a single 12 mile power line from the main road which runs through a Pine forest. So subject to a lot of power failures especially when windy. Will be able to use the truck as a 120v - 30amp battery backup system that auto switches over and should run at full load for 2 or 3 days! yeah!!! no need for gen. backup

On the downside the charger for this truck takes an 80amp - 240v breaker in the panel box.... ok for me as I have lots of power and spare room in panels....

For most homeowners or non-commercial places will having 80a @ 240v open for this charger install be a problem?

Yes but if you use the truck to provide backup power…how will you drive anywhere in an emergency? I hope you have another vehicle for this.
 

ACDII

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I see some still believe the battery replacement myth. That's all it is though, a myth. There are STILl original Prius on the road with original batteries going on 20 years now. I myself owned a Prius, great car for what it was, cheap to run, great MPG, crappy car for everything else. It was the WORST car I ever drove. It was the only car that left me sitting at the bottom of a hill that had a little snow on it, every time the wheel slipped the power would cut out. Not kidding, took me 20 minutes to go 400'!!!

I replaced it with a Camry Hybrid. Drove much better, but was cheaply built, will never understand the praise Toyota gets, I thought both cars were the cheapest made I ever owned and I owned a Plymouth Horizon! I eventually replaced it with a Fusion Hybrid. Now that was a GOOD car. 100,000+ miles before trading it for a 2013 Fusion Hybrid. That was an even better car. It did 45 MPH on battery alone. I was easily getting 40 MPG in a large family sedan. I eventually had to replace it with a pickup due to my back problems, I couldnt sit in a car for more than 20 minutes before I was in excruciating pain. I need to be able to sit like in a chair, and could not do that in a car.

Over all though, not once did I ever get concerned about the batteries failing. There is so much technology packed into the battery pack to get the most out of every single cell. A computer monitors each cell and provides just the right amount of input and draw to optimize performance of it. It prevents cell degeneration, and that is why the myth of batteries going bad in a few year is debunked. I have a couple fried who still have their 2010 Fusion Hybrids, well beyond 150K miles and still working like day one. There are plenty of Prius owners with 15 YO cars on their original packs.

As for the Lightning? WAY TOO EXPENSIVE!!!!! If I wanted to replace my current 2018 F150 Platinum with a same Lightning, it would cost me almost double what the 2018 cost. I could never justify the expense no matter how much fuel it saves.

Ideally though, when and IF we ever go back to full time in the office, my 120 mile RT drive would be great, I could drive to work 5 days a week, charge it up every night and never see a gas pump ever again, but what would the electricity cost? No one ever mentions that. Has anyone been shown how much more the electric bills go up if charging an EV every might that is driven 120 miles a day?

If anything I think getting a Powerboost would be more practical since those can also power a house, you just need to buy the house adapter, but I think that would be a hell of a lot less expensive than a Lightning.

Either case, I have an 8600 watt generator already hooked up to the house, powers it for 24 hours on 8 gallons of gas.
 

MapleLeafFarmer

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Yes but if you use the truck to provide backup power…how will you drive anywhere in an emergency? I hope you have another vehicle for this.
yes I do...

I think its generally known battery vehicles limited in range so I have a gas vehicle for longer distance runs and for when its very cold outside as electric tend not to heat all that well.

Also i think generally known high torque requirements will drain batteries fast so I have a diesel for pullling the car hauler, camper, etc.

But for short hops to the store, round trip in town, etc.... the F150 Lightning Lariat in the family will do just fine, will cost about same as the gas job as a pickup is easy to convert (just lift the body, replace gas components with electric and lots of room left over for batteries between the frame. So same price for me and this one will will be cheaper to run, and I will accept will be better for the environment. (versus those guys that had to create an all new concept vehicle from ground up like Tesla, etc..

For sure its not a 1 vehicle for every situation and they are not selling it as it is. Not being sold that way but is any one truck/car/tractor good for everything??? I think not.

Cheers
:)
 

Jchonline

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yes I do...

I think its generally known battery vehicles limited in range so I have a gas vehicle for longer distance runs and for when its very cold outside as electric tend not to heat all that well.

Also i think generally known high torque requirements will drain batteries fast so I have a diesel for pullling the car hauler, camper, etc.

But for short hops to the store, round trip in town, etc.... the F150 Lightning Lariat in the family will do just fine, will cost about same as the gas job as a pickup is easy to convert (just lift the body, replace gas components with electric and lots of room left over for batteries between the frame. So same price for me and this one will will be cheaper to run, and I will accept will be better for the environment. (versus those guys that had to create an all new concept vehicle from ground up like Tesla, etc..

For sure its not a 1 vehicle for every situation and they are not selling it as it is. Not being sold that way but is any one truck/car/tractor good for everything??? I think not.

Cheers
:)
Yes I get along with my F250 only just fine and have for 5 years ;) Enjoy the new truck!
 

GreensvilleJay

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stuff to mull over...
battery powered vehicles can have GREAT torque/pulling abilities. it just depends who wrote the code for the computer.
LOUSY range in winter, even in the mild Ontario ones.
Road salt will be a 'challenge', not covered in battery warranty ?
According to CarandDriver base $ for Lightning is $41K vs gasF150 at $30K.
All EVs have a HUGE impact on Mother Earth, far more than gas guzzlers.Goggle 'lithium mining'.
Not cheaper to run when you factor in 'semifast' charger + install cost,ACTUAL hydro costs, as well as new battery in 8 years( $12K CDN)
did some rough math,, based on Ford's own numbers, using 32A,240V charger,14hrs...it CANNOT recharge the smallest battery to full capacity, costs $27 so about 10c / mile...IF you get 270 mile range.
 
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ACDII

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Base model Lightning is pretty much the same price as the base model XL Powerboost, can't go wrong there, but if you like to have a nice vehicle like I do,

F150 Platinum Lightning, $92,569.
F150 Platinum 3.5 Powerboost, $68,740 ( $8,000 higher than what my 2018 stickered for, paid $51K for it)

Battery is good for 300,000 to 500,000 miles. Is it worth the additional $23,829 though? No way will it make up that kind of money, and since it is still not something that will be in the used market any time soon, how will resale be on it?
 

GreensvilleJay

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re: Battery is good for 300,000 to 500,000 miles.
OK, where did those numbers come from ? Ford's warranty is only 100K or 8 years, whichever comes first.
They play games of course,like everyone else,, like you can't get the better battery HAVE to get a 'package'.
Battery life is dependent on a lot of factors,temperature is a biggy.
There's still no way I'll be buying one as I don't need a 4 door pickup with an open trunk. HOw they can say contractors will be buying them is a laugh !!
 

ACDII

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Those are the Tesla and hybrid batteries currently on the road, so the Lightning batteries will be very much the same. Again, this BS about having to replace batteries in a few years in nothing but BS. The battery pack BSM is highly advanced and maintains the cells to perfection to get the most out of them. The QA that goes into each cell also makes them very high grade, not anything like the crap you get off Ebay or Amazon.

When Hybrids first hit the market back in 2005, there was a huge crying over but the batteries will be so expensive and you have to replace them often, which became nothing but a myth.

They are finding battery degradation is roughly 1% per year, so in 10 years the battery pack will be 90% of it's total capacity. By then it can have 200,000 miles or more on it . Very few Hybrids have needed battery replacements, and usually the packs can be refurbished instead of replaced because failures are usually one or two cells that failed while the rest were fine. With that, repair costs are still less than replacing a transmission or engine. As more EV are produced, more companies specializing in battery repair will come up, much like transmission and brake shops.
 

GreensvilleJay

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I passed on a 10 year old Prius, 3-4 years ago as it needed the battery. HAD to be dealer installed AND there was a $$$ displosal(er,,,recycling ) fee. I couldn't make $500 on flipping it ,so off to scrapyard it went AFTER battery was removed. HUGE issue isin properly dealing with the batteries.
You're right, kinda hightech, but if they ARE so dang good, someone would offer a far better warranty than 8 years/100K. Refurbing them is a highly 'technical' challenge. Details like Ford cells are not Tesla compatible, GM are weird, etc. NOT a 'one size fits all' program. THAT is a shame, though I understand it. Forces the vehicle owner to go back to the dealership, not the local garage.
As for the 'specs' they're based on computer simulations, minimal real world testing, no 'degradation' of circuitry, no Ontario salty road splashes, etc.They also 'fudge' the battery charging, using 'optimal' times and conditions. Little details like NOT having the car in -20*C overnight( todays weather BTW).
As I said ,I'm all for hightech, Been in computer design/build for 5 decades, used batteries that were USA Submarine duty rated for MY equipment, but NOT at the expense of the client.
 

jimh406

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I see some still believe the battery replacement myth. That's all it is though, a myth. There are STILl original Prius on the road with original batteries going on 20 years now.
There may very well be original Prius batteries that still work at least some. There are also companies dedicated to rebuilding and replacing them. I don't know about you, but I think that means that not all last forever. Fwiw, I know people who've got 12 years of life out of their 2 year warranty auto/rv batteries.

So, I'd say ... not a myth, but not all fail in a short amount of time either. Probably has a lot to do with your usage curve ie some drive them in town where they regularly recharge, but if you drove highway miles there is no chance to recharge and minimal ue. In any case, an all electric battery has even a different usage/charging curve since it depends on charging at off hours.
 

leveraddict

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Electric vehicles are like a snowball running down hill. This country has enough black outs and natural disasters as it is. IF EVERYONE has an E vehicle all power stations will have to upgrade and then our clean E power will become the most expensive power source on the planet! Its over 20 grand to replace a Tesla car battery! Oh and if you ever saw an E vehicle on fire and what it takes to put the fire out its very difficult! E vehicles are a good thought but like everything else the technology behind it has a long way to go! JMHO!
 

OrangeKrush

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I'm no electrician.. not even close but..There's no doubt when or if this ever takes off.. the electric companies will be over whelmed with Power Outages!
 
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Jchonline

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Mileage claims by these car companies is a farse. If you city drive using almost no AC/Heat you will get around 15% less than stated. If you drive on the highway you take a 30%-50% hit in mileage overall.
 

GreensvilleJay

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One thing for sure, there'll be commuter chaos around Toronto if mor ethan 2 or 3 of them lose power during rush hour !! No way a rescue towtruck will be able to pour in a bucket of electrons to get you going....it'll be a $500 tow !!

sadly , JQPublic has no idea of the true cosst to run the EV. They just see the media hype...'plug into a charger overnight'. NO reporting of the cost of the charger, installion cost or actual 'fillup' fee. They're also no mae aware that the 'smart chargers' can be remote controlled (throttled back), during 'high demand times' to try to avoid blackouts, brownouts, etc.,similar tech Ontario Hydro did with tehir 'free' thermostats years ago.

what I would like to see is that EVERY EV pay for their share of the 'road taxes'. Right now they don't pay a cent to maintain the roads they drive on, even though it'd be simple to implement.
 

ACDII

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There may very well be original Prius batteries that still work at least some. There are also companies dedicated to rebuilding and replacing them. I don't know about you, but I think that means that not all last forever. Fwiw, I know people who've got 12 years of life out of their 2 year warranty auto/rv batteries.

So, I'd say ... not a myth, but not all fail in a short amount of time either. Probably has a lot to do with your usage curve ie some drive them in town where they regularly recharge, but if you drove highway miles there is no chance to recharge and minimal ue. In any case, an all electric battery has even a different usage/charging curve since it depends on charging at off hours.

Here's the thing, by now there are tens of millions of Hybrids on the road, many 10 years old or more. IF battery replacement was such a big thing, there would be a lot more places that specialize in it, but there aren't. For a normal car you can go just about anywhere to get work done, don't need dealers to fix cars, same should hold true with EV. HOWEVER, as pointed out, recycling the cells is and will be a major issue for quite some time. There are no companies that recycle these, not like lead acid ones. No one knows what to do with them and there will be a glut of used up packs as the cars age. The average age of any car is 12 years before they are used up, gas or hybrid.

Please note I am not an advocate for EV, the country is no where near ready for it, and wont be for quite some time. I just know from experience and being part of the hybrid world for 10 years that a lot of this battery replacement talk is BS. Just in 2021 alone over 6.4 million were sold world wide, and millions are on the road just in the US. Also Hybrid packs are hard used as their discharge/charge rates are far more than an EV pack would be due to their much smaller size. They are cycled about 100 to 1 compared to EV. The charge rates are high as regen braking pumps juice back into them, and discharges are about half of what an EV would pull except when starting out on pure electric. A good hybrid driver can charge and discharge a pack smoothly so as to not stress them and easily obtain 500K miles out of one. Usually those who complain about needing replacement packs early on abuse the system, treating the car like its a hotrod.

If you have a few hours to spare, I suggest reading up on how the battery management systems work to gain the most out of each cell.
 

jimh406

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HOWEVER, as pointed out, recycling the cells is and will be a major issue for quite some time. There are no companies that recycle these, not like lead acid ones.
There are companies that do recycle hybrid batteries. You only have to google to find them.

As I've noted ... EVs aren't going to work for my use case. Besides, my days of buying very expensive vehicles of any type are over. I'll let others be the early adopters. I'll use that money I'm saving on other things. :D
 
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They base battery life on proper cycling, the average EV user isn't going to maintain it correctly.
 

GreensvilleJay

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Hybrids, by their nature are 'special'. Depending on who cut the code, the engine comes on to 'assist' or 'replace' the battery pack where not only 'capacity' is a factor but outside air temperature. Spent a few dayze looking at the 'infernals' of the Ford hybrid few years ago, not everyone's 'cup of tea' and really some of the convuluted code made me wonder if a commitee of clowns programmed it.
I spent a decade designing remote control energy managment systems, 3 decades ago. Back then NO ittybitty microcomputers, no SMT,no internet. Used discrete 4000 CMOS to get current levels lower than 10ma yet still communicate over 15 miles of copper wire. Battery management accounted for probably 60% of the overall design time. I get daily info of today's technology, on the chip level, not premade boards or systems, parts as a designer I'd use to design the system. Is the 'tech' good, yes. Is it great , NO.
Just had my 35 year old furnace replaced. Old skool electronics, aka no 'computer', funace was 96% eff at install, was 92% eff last year.yeah, I monitored the unit. The new unit, with fancy 'computer' in it is 95% eff.
So, not a real improvement.
As for abusing the packs , not really possible, unless the owner 'recodes' the computer in the charger, something a seriously doubt most( if any ?) can do. Also a pickup with 500+ HP , IS a HOTROD. There is zero need for than amount of power in a pickup with a 5'6" box.
 

MapleLeafFarmer

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I thought about buying the Apple electric car but plugging the dam USB power cord was just too hard for the kids to do.
Apple Car - Album on Imgur
 
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