Going to motorize my snowblower chute

[ve9aa]

I like it ! Good job eh

 

[ctfjr]

How many seconds from stop to stop? From the video it appears slightly faster than my earlier guestimate of 30 seconds.

BTW: Looks like the Blizzard is made by Radtech, the same people who actually make the Kubota B2789. What is the cutting width on yours?

Yes, I believe you are correct it's made by Radtech. When I needed a longer pto shaft I called a distributor in MA. I'm pretty sure when I gave him my model # he said something about Radtech. Even at their outrageous price for a pto shaft I would have purchased it and run up there (abt 50mi) to get it. But he couldn't even give me a date when they would have it.

The motor shaft turns at 45rpm. Before I ordered any motor I counted the turns on the manual crank to go 180degs. I estimated this motor would take 15-20 seconds. With my driveway almost all the max turns will be 90degs or so while plowing.

The blower is 64" wide. I found it on Facebook Marketplace (don't know how I even got there). The seller was asking $2200.
First rule of negotiating - let the other guy do the talking. He took it out onto the driveway and set it down. I looked it over - not much to look at as it appeared in very good condition. I just stood there looking at it until he finally said, "Look $1500 is my bottom price". Sold

 

[ctfjr]

I like it ! Good job eh

Thanks! always appreciate a herringchoker compliment

73

 

[torch]

The motor shaft turns at 45rpm. Before I ordered any motor I counted the turns on the manual crank to go 180degs. I estimated this motor would take 15-20 seconds. With my driveway almost all the max turns will be 90degs or so while plowing.

After playing with a couple of power window motors, I found they just didn't have the required torque to get things moving after a hard freeze, so I built my own gear box to suit a COTS motor commonly used in robotics. I geared it down to about 150rpm, giving me a stop-to-stop time of about 10 seconds. With my particular drive and parking area, it is necessary to switch from side to side frequently, so the speed is a factor.

In your case (making smaller adjustments less frequently) I think you will find that speed adequate. In fact, the lower speed will allow greater precision. My neighbour opted for hydraulic motors and the chute just flys around in comparison. He has more difficulty placing the discharge precisely.

I think you got a great deal on it and I have found the 51" wide Kubota-badged Radtech build quality to be excellent, so I think you will serve you well for years. (For reference, mine is now 7 seasons old, we get 12' to 18' of snow per year, my drive is 700' long with parking for over a dozen cars around the garage). Heavy gauge steel and close tolerances (particularly important is the impeller to housing clearance) make it a snow-eating monster that hurls the snow deep into the bush away from the drive.

As with any snowblower, it can be plugged if the snow is sticky enough but this one seems far less prone to plugging than many I have used over the decades. I do spray mine down with a low-friction spray called "Sno Shooter" once or twice a season, which also helps, and keep the chain drive well-oiled with chain lube (even so, it did stretch out enough to require replacement after about 6 seasons of use).

For those interested, here is my gear box project:

 

[ctfjr]

Nice job Torch! Way beyond my capabilities. . . When I really need something machined I call one of my sons. Among his interests is a metal working shop complete with a Bridgeport (not really a Bridgeport but something equivalent).

I won't know until we get a real snow here but I think the torque on this motor will be adequate (60lb-ins).

My last snowblower was a Normand. It was a real Canadian beast, built like a tank. It had hydraulic chute rotation and deflector adjustment. Although it rotated faster than what I just cobbled together it sure wasn't crazy fast. If I knew more about hydraulic motors / hydraulics I probably would have gone that route.

 

[nbryan]

That's a great improvement for you over the manual crank. Great job!

I got the hydraulic rotator with my unit. WAY faster and thus touchier to control but I'm used to it now and couldn't stand it going as slow as yours now! It's what I'm used to and the direction change speed is often quite handy, though being able to do slower finer adjustments would also be nice.

 

[torch]

When I really need something machined I call one of my sons. Among his interests is a metal working shop complete with a Bridgeport (not really a Bridgeport but something equivalent).

I wish I had the space for a Bridgeport or similar, but my home "machine shop" is crammed in a corner of the garage. I make do with a Chinese 3-in-1 combination machine.

If I knew more about hydraulic motors / hydraulics I probably would have gone that route.

The most important thing you need to know about hydraulics is that it is expensive to add more rear remotes . Looks like yours are already committed to top and tilt. Even if you already have a third set on that tractor, the electric option is still probably cheaper.

One thing I would consider is coating your motor seams with a rubberized waterproofing like Plasti-Dip, Flex Seal or similar. You don't want moisture seeping in there over time.

 

[ctfjr]

I wish I had the space for a Bridgeport or similar, but my home "machine shop" is crammed in a corner of the garage. I make do with a Chinese 3-in-1 combination machine.


The most important thing you need to know about hydraulics is that it is expensive to add more rear remotes . Looks like yours are already committed to top and tilt. Even if you already have a third set on that tractor, the electric option is still probably cheaper.

One thing I would consider is coating your motor seams with a rubberized waterproofing like Plasti-Dip, Flex Seal or similar. You don't want moisture seeping in there over time.

Yes I do have a 3rd remote at Brian's (Fitrite Hydraulics) suggestion. I would have liked to have used a hydraulic motor just for the learning experience but it's snow time here in CT and couldn't delay.

I did coat the entrance of the power cable with 'Liquid Tape' before mounting. I have a few things to tidy up - real set screws for the U joint that I tapped, split loom around the power cable and a sealant around the 2 body joints of the motor.

btw I really like Liquid tape. Use it on all my outdoor camera installations (14).

Thanks for your suggestions!

 

[torch]

Sounds like you are on it! Let us know how it makes out in real-world testing.

 

[TheOldHokie]

After playing with a couple of power window motors, I found they just didn't have the required torque to get things moving after a hard freeze, so I built my own gear box to suit a COTS motor commonly used in robotics. I geared it down to about 150rpm, giving me a stop-to-stop time of about 10 seconds. With my particular drive and parking area, it is necessary to switch from side to side frequently, so the speed is a factor.

In your case (making smaller adjustments less frequently) I think you will find that speed adequate. In fact, the lower speed will allow greater precision. My neighbour opted for hydraulic motors and the chute just flys around in comparison. He has more difficulty placing the discharge precisely.

I think you got a great deal on it and I have found the 51" wide Kubota-badged Radtech build quality to be excellent, so I think you will serve you well for years. (For reference, mine is now 7 seasons old, we get 12' to 18' of snow per year, my drive is 700' long with parking for over a dozen cars around the garage). Heavy gauge steel and close tolerances (particularly important is the impeller to housing clearance) make it a snow-eating monster that hurls the snow deep into the bush away from the drive.

As with any snowblower, it can be plugged if the snow is sticky enough but this one seems far less prone to plugging than many I have used over the decades. I do spray mine down with a low-friction spray called "Sno Shooter" once or twice a season, which also helps, and keep the chain drive well-oiled with chain lube (even so, it did stretch out enough to require replacement after about 6 seasons of use).

For those interested, here is my gear box project:

Very nice - I think we share some common interests. I will see that snowblower gearbox and raise you a solar system. Here is my dual range planetary ground speed reducer for N-series tractors - shiftable between direct drive and 3.5:1 reduction. Code name HokiePokie

Dan

 

[torch]

Oh very cool. How did you do the outer ring teeth? That would be one heck of a broach!

 

[TheOldHokie]

Oh very cool. How did you do the outer ring teeth? That would be one heck of a broach!

I cheated and paid a gear shop to make me the blanks. They did it on a gear shaper and I had them make five pieces each of the ring gear and planet carrier that also has internals in the hub for the shifter. The gears with internal splines were made from OTS broached sleeves.

You have one big edge on my project. Yours is operational and mine is still in development and has been for over 10 years. With a little luck prototype #1 (pictured) will get tested in my 8N this coming spring. The goal is to reduce ground speed to suit a rototiller without reducing PTO speed at the same time. Do a Google search for "Ford 8N Howard transmission" for some background.

I will say designing and building a planetary gear set has been an educational project on multiple fronts.

Dan

 

[ctfjr]

Ok, Now that I have used the blower for a couple of hours and the chute rotation works fine (as previous posters noted, it could be a little faster but its not a deal breaker) its time for part 2.

I thought the manual deflector would be fine. Ah how short my memory is. My L3400 blower had all hydraulic chute and deflector controls. I forgot what a pia it is to be hopping on and off the tractor to change the deflector angle

I expect this in on Wednesday.

I've already started the wiring. The dpdt switch will be here Tuesday.

The nagging question I have is where to connect to on the deflector side. Easy is just on one side of it but I am not comfortable with the actuator pushing up like that. Seems like it will be torqueing the hinge yet I've seen plenty on installs online doing exactly that.

Centering the connection on the back of the deflector would require a 4" or 5" 'fin' to come up in order to clear the hinge. I could make a 'U' bracket (the width of the deflector, 8" by 8" tall by 2" wide) that would extend about 5" out from the deflector.

Anybody have any experience doing this?

 

[torch]

Don't overthink it. The deflector does not require much force. The reality is 10# force is probably overkill. Think of it this way: the clamping force of a manual adjuster or holding force of a cable adjuster is negligible, so you don't really need 200#+ of force. If you run into a situation where you need to shorten the throw of the discharged snow, you will likely pause travel for a moment while you adjust your aim anyway. Changing the throw is more likely to happen the other way -- extending it at times when precise aim is not a factor, and the stream of snow is pushing the deflector outward if anything.

Those ubiquitous Chinese linear actuators all have the same motor and trade speed for torque by gearing. 12mm/sec and a 4" throw means about 8 seconds from full down to full up. I tried that and personally prefer higher speed. After experimenting with a few different 4" and 8" versions of different speeds, my current iteration is an 8", 100# actuator that travels from end to end in about 3 seconds. But the reality is that the slower speed is only a real factor if you need it constantly. My last iteration was about 8 seconds and I left it like that for 3 or 4 seasons. It only got changed this year because the Chinesium motor imploded (internal magnets fractured and the pieces seized the motor).

Side mount or shark fin? Again, the forces just are not a real issue. Side mount offers some advantages:
1. easy to experiment. Not sure of angles and clearances? Just hold the actuator up beside the chute and mark potential mounting points with a sharpie or paint marker. Move the actuator to the opposite extreme and check the deflection angle against the marks. With the shark fin, you have limited ability to make changes if you got the math wrong. And holes to patch if you got the math really buggered up!

2. Smoother flow path. With a side-mount, the hardware is off to one side, not really interfering with discharge. A shark fin has hardware smack dead centre of the flow path. Even carriage bolts will catch packing snow. The smoother the internal surface of the discharge chute, the less likely it is to clog in borderline conditions.

There is one advantage of the shark fin: cable management. This becomes an even bigger consideration where thick, stiff hydraulic hoses are involved, which I suspect is the reason the shark fin is the preferred approach for hydraulic actuators.

But be it cable or hose, there has to be enough slack and enough room to follow the chute rotation from one end to the other. A side mount will require a longer cable at the one extreme and have more slack trying to catch on things at the other. I solved this with a small bungee cord that pulls the slack off to one side, away from other moving parts as the chute unwinds.

Have fun, and post pictures! I love seeing other people's solutions to common problems.

 

[ctfjr]

Don't overthink it. The deflector does not require much force. The reality is 10# force is probably overkill. Think of it this way: the clamping force of a manual adjuster or holding force of a cable adjuster is negligible, so you don't really need 200#+ of force. If you run into a situation where you need to shorten the throw of the discharged snow, you will likely pause travel for a moment while you adjust your aim anyway. Changing the throw is more likely to happen the other way -- extending it at times when precise aim is not a factor, and the stream of snow is pushing the deflector outward if anything.

Those ubiquitous Chinese linear actuators all have the same motor and trade speed for torque by gearing. 12mm/sec and a 4" throw means about 8 seconds from full down to full up. I tried that and personally prefer higher speed. After experimenting with a few different 4" and 8" versions of different speeds, my current iteration is an 8", 100# actuator that travels from end to end in about 3 seconds. But the reality is that the slower speed is only a real factor if you need it constantly. My last iteration was about 8 seconds and I left it like that for 3 or 4 seasons. It only got changed this year because the Chinesium motor imploded (internal magnets fractured and the pieces seized the motor).

Side mount or shark fin? Again, the forces just are not a real issue. Side mount offers some advantages:
1. easy to experiment. Not sure of angles and clearances? Just hold the actuator up beside the chute and mark potential mounting points with a sharpie or paint marker. Move the actuator to the opposite extreme and check the deflection angle against the marks. With the shark fin, you have limited ability to make changes if you got the math wrong. And holes to patch if you got the math really buggered up!

2. Smoother flow path. With a side-mount, the hardware is off to one side, not really interfering with discharge. A shark fin has hardware smack dead centre of the flow path. Even carriage bolts will catch packing snow. The smoother the internal surface of the discharge chute, the less likely it is to clog in borderline conditions.

There is one advantage of the shark fin: cable management. This becomes an even bigger consideration where thick, stiff hydraulic hoses are involved, which I suspect is the reason the shark fin is the preferred approach for hydraulic actuators.

But be it cable or hose, there has to be enough slack and enough room to follow the chute rotation from one end to the other. A side mount will require a longer cable at the one extreme and have more slack trying to catch on things at the other. I solved this with a small bungee cord that pulls the slack off to one side, away from other moving parts as the chute unwinds.

Have fun, and post pictures! I love seeing other people's solutions to common problems.

Thanks Torch!
great info - My 1st order for an actuator was for a 22lb force one. After playing around with the deflector I didn't think that would be enough force if used on the side - my 1st choice. I tried cancelling that yesterday but too late, it will be here on Tuesday. The bigger one arrives the next day. Amazon just sent me a msg that the switch will be here tomorrow so I will have most of that end done by the time the actuator arrives.

Drilled the hole for the waterproof connector next to the one for the rotation motor. Also made the cutout next to the rotation switch for the new deflector switch.

 

[ve9aa]

On my BX2830 snowblower the "wiper motor"(or whatever it is) is hooked to the deflector on the side....even though technically the shop could've attached it in the center quite easily, as there already bracketry there if I had gone hydraulic.

 

[ctfjr]

ve9aa, yes that is basically the way I originally planned to do it. After reading Torch's comments I am definitely going to.