1978 B7100D hour meter reading question

[SBates]

Hello,

I am a new member and possible first time Kubota owner. I am looking at a 1978 B7100D that is up for auction. The the photo of the hour meter is difficult to read accurately because the numbers are faded from age. At first glance the hours appear to be 0742.3 but the 0 is the most faded/ washed out and difficult to identify digit and could possibly be read as a 6. So, the operating hours could be either 0742.3 or 6742.3. For a 43 year old B7100D a meter reading of 0742.3 does seem low but 6742.3 seems really(!!) high. I don't have enough experience with hour meter readings for old tractors relative to the machines age to know if 6742.3 is even reasonable (possible). The difference in wear and tear on the tractor between those two meter readings seems to me would be huge.

So, I am not sure what to think. Unfortuneately I am not able to physically inspect the tractor due to its locality from me. I would be buying it based on the ad description and provided photos.

Any thoughts or opinions about the possibility of that high of a meter reading reative to the tractors age would be very much appreciated. Thank you.

Shel

 

[ve9aa]

If you shared a photo of the hour-meter, it did not appear in your post friend.

 

[PaulL]

It could be 0. If it was, that would mean that digit's never turned over, which would explain why it's faded. Can you just as the question of the seller - how many hours is it - hard to read the photo? It could also be 10,742 (i.e. have gone right around the clock). Not impossible at that age.

 

[SBates]

Thank you guys for your replies. Sorry about the photo. I had not intended to post a photo of the meter originally. I did not word my post as well as I should have and it was misleading. I should have been clearer regarding my question to the forum.

First, I have absolutely no experience with an industrial/agriculture tractor of any make or size and how the hour meter reading relates to the use of the tractor during its lifetime, e.g., below normal, normal, above normal, etc.

So, what I am wondering (asking) is is it reasonable/possible that a tractor the size and type as the 1978 B7100D could have as many hours as 6742.3? If so would you consider that low, normal, high, etc. To me 6742.3 seems like alot of hours.

Mainly I am concerned with the wear and tear that 6742.3 hours might represent regarding the engine, transmission, final drive, etc. and the remaining life of the machine in general. I know that in theory this type of machine can be rebuilt almost indefinately but since this is an auction sale in order to win I will probably have to bid more than the normal price for this particular model (rare where I live) and I don't want to be bidding on a machine that is basically wornout.

I thought that if someone in the forum has had years of experience with the older B7100D tractor or similar Kubota models they might be able to offer some insight regarding their experiences with the relationship of hours to wear, genreally speaking. I do realize there are many other factors that can influence the mechanical condition of a machine.

As I stated in my original post I am not able to physically inspect this tractor so I am just trying to learn a little more from others regarding this subject of tractor hours/running time in order to make a resonable bid.

Hope I haven't put anyone to sleep with this long winded post. I have attached a copy of the hour meter photo. Again, thanks for any thoughts regading my questions.

Shel

P.S., PaulL, I have sent a request to the auction company to clarify the meter reading if possible. I am waiting for their reply.

 

[PaulL]

Hmm. That could also be an 8. I'd lean towards a 6, because it looks to me like a band is faded through the centre. If it were a 0 or 8, I'd expect the top right of the numeral to have some white. But a guess, and no more.

6,700 hours over 33 years is 200 hours a year. 200 hours isn't a lot in a year - it's actually relatively light. My B2601 is nearly 6 months old and about 100 hours. I'm a pretty light user. If you'd used the tractor in any kind of orchard or agricultural application you'd put 20 to 40 hours a week on it - you'd get to 200 hours in just 5-10 weeks. So 7,000 hours isn't heavy use for a machine of that age.

It does also mean that the machine could easily have gone round the clock - be more than 10,000 hours.

In that kind of machine the maintenance is probably more important than the absolute hours, even if you could reliably understand the hours. Things like whether it's lived outside (you can tell from the amount of rust, and often from the seat because if it's only outside when being used, then the seat is mostly covered by someone's backside....), whether it's been greased and maintained (in person you can tell by how loose the joints on loaders and the like are....in photos very hard to tell). And of course any individual element you look at (such as a seat) could have been replaced in the last year, or 10 years ago, or never replaced.

Many of the common signs people look for, like whether there's excess grease (hopefully means someone who has been generous/frequent in lubing it), when the last service was done, aren't really helpful on a 33 year old machine. Just because the current owner is meticulous doesn't mean the previous 3 owners were.

I'm sure people can regale you with tales of that model with many higher hours. Probably well maintained ones. Others will tell you stories about much lower hour machines with significant mechanical issues.

I'd guess that any machine that age is a gamble. That's not bad, they're also quite cheap, and they're pretty robust machines. So you're gambling, but it's not like it's a high stakes gamble, and the odds are mostly in your favour. If it runs it'll do tractor work, and parts are reasonably easily available because they're common - if you're prepared to wrench on it yourself you can fix many problems relatively cheaply.

EDIT 1: I see this similar machine (https://www.tractorhouse.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/207520651/1979-kubota-b7100) with what looks like 1,146 hours. I'm dubious, that's about 30 hours a year. Couldn't even mow the lawns in that time. 11,146 looks more likely.

EDIT 2: And this one https://www.tractorhouse.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/207607337/1978-kubota-b7100 has 1,154, but looks much more likely given condition and lack of fading. I'd say that one might have lived inside. Still very low hours though for the age.

This one https://www.tractorhouse.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/206454747/kubota-b7100 claims 2,700 hours. Possible - again not much fading.

This one https://www.tractorhouse.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/204879357/1981-kubota-b7100hst claims 737 hours!! And they claim that's accurate/verified. Wow. 25 hours per year. I'd jump on that if it were real....

So having looked at all them, I'd say perhaps the one you're looking at is 6,700, perhaps it's 0742 after all and just sat outside a lot so it's faded. But still, 25 hours a year then....seems so low.

As a comparison, my first tractor was a 2007-ish BX2350. Just over 1,000 hours, and it had been unused about 3 years before I bought it, and lived outside I think for those 3 years. So that's 1,000 hours in a bit less than 10 years of use. To be fair, that machine was pretty beat up cosmetically (very cheap though). But mechanically never had an issue with it - it just ran.

 

[Fordtech86]

It could be a 3 as well…

I did find the tractor you are looking at. Given the pictures of the rest of the tractor, I would think its safe to assume its not a 0 (unless its rolled over). Not sure of prices in your area, but the bid is past what I would pay for it based on the pics

Auctions can be tricky

Edit: just adding this as it might help you relate hours to operation. What we use on the automotive side is an average of 25 miles per hour of operation. So to round it off, 6700 hrs x 25=167,500 “miles”. Many variables to this, but again just adding as some people may find the relationship easier to understand operating hours.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Hello,

I am a new member and possible first time Kubota owner. I am looking at a 1978 B7100D that is up for auction. The the photo of the hour meter is difficult to read accurately because the numbers are faded from age. At first glance the hours appear to be 0742.3 but the 0 is the most faded/ washed out and difficult to identify digit and could possibly be read as a 6. So, the operating hours could be either 0742.3 or 6742.3. For a 43 year old B7100D a meter reading of 0742.3 does seem low but 6742.3 seems really(!!) high. I don't have enough experience with hour meter readings for old tractors relative to the machines age to know if 6742.3 is even reasonable (possible). The difference in wear and tear on the tractor between those two meter readings seems to me would be huge.

So, I am not sure what to think. Unfortuneately I am not able to physically inspect the tractor due to its locality from me. I would be buying it based on the ad description and provided photos.

Any thoughts or opinions about the possibility of that high of a meter reading reative to the tractors age would be very much appreciated. Thank you.

Shel

I think you are wasting your time. Hour meters in general are only mildly informative. A 50 year old meter is worthless. There is no realistic possibility that tractor only has 7xx hours on it. Here are three realistic possibilities:

1. The obliterated digit is a high number in the 6 or 8 range
2. The left most digit is stuck and has never moved
3. The meter has turned over at 10,000

Its a 50 year old machine and almost 100% its one with with thousands of hours on it. Price it accordingly.

Dan

 

[SBates]

Wow, what a wonderful response. Thank you all for the time, effort and thought that you each put into your posts. You each brought up excellent points. I gained volumes from each one and feel much more comfortable now about how much importance I should be placing on the hour meter reading. It looks like in the end..."really not much", amen.

PaulL; As you mentioned the machines maintenance over its lifetime is more important than just an hour reading and a good physical inspection is the best way to decide whether to buy or not. But, also as you mentioned, that can be dicey as the past owners may not have done any maintenance whereas the current owner keep the machine clean, greased and oiled, under cover and so forth.

Fordtech86; Yes indeed, auctions can be tricky. This is the first time I have even considered purchasing a machine of any kind through an auction. I am only considering it because the B7100D (this one has the hydraulically controlled snow plow, very important!) would be just the right size tractor for our place. Also, with a Kubota I would feel comfortable doing whatever repairs are needed overtime.

By the way, your explanation of the relationship of "miles" on an odometer to "hours" on an hour meter to be very interesting. Many times I have wondered how miles and hours in the automotive industry would relate. Now I have something to go by.

Dan; Yes you are absolutely right. In the end it is indeed an "..old machine.." and "Price it accordingly."

I guess I will taking the dreaded old sidekick "Buyer Be Ware!" with me to the auction.

The close of the auction is about a week way so I will try not to obsess over the hour meter anymore and just watch how the bidding goes in the final hours.

If I do bid and I am successful I will let you all know. This forum is simply great. Thanks again to you all. I have attached a few more photos of the tractor in question for those that might be interested.

Shel

 

[procraftmike]

I have a 1977, B7100. When I got it several years back, the hour meter read 2700 hours. Only after I ran it a bit, did I realize the hour meter did not work. I would be surprised if the hour meter on that tractor is still working. That might explain why those digits are so faded. They have been exposed to the sun for years.

I don't think that tractor looks that bad for a 1978.

 

[JimmyJazz]

Thats probably not a good tractor for a first time owner. Look for something newer. The items I have watched sell at auction almost always sell for more than what you might find one for on Tractorhouse.com. Something newer will have better parts availability and "support" as its known , meaning a dealer can probably fix it for you. Having said that there are lots of big old John Deere tractors with plenty of fans working the fields. I just sold a 25 year old Steiner tractor because many parts were no longer available. Steiner no longer "supported" the model (Their words).

 

[fried1765]

I think you are wasting your time. Hour meters in general are only mildly informative. A 50 year old meter is worthless. There is no realistic possibility that tractor only has 7xx hours on it. Here are three realistic possibilities:

1. The obliterated digit is a high number in the 6 or 8 range
2. The left most digit is stuck and has never moved
3. The meter has turned over at 10,000

Its a 50 year old machine and almost 100% its one with with thousands of hours on it. Price it accordingly.

Dan

"It's a 50 year old machine and almost 100% its one with thousands of hours on it".

I have a 32 year old Ford 1920 with only 1120 hours, and a 15 year old Kubota L48 TLB with only 253 hours (bought 2 years ago from original owner).
It is VERY likely that the tractor the OP is considering DOES have 7,000 hours, or possibly even some hours less than that.

 

[number two]

Regarding the hour meter,that is a Hobbs style that records time whenever the key is on.
How many times has the key been left on when the engine is not running?
Agree doesn't look too bad,but not sure I'd recommend this situation
Good Luck!

 

[PaulL]

I just realised my poor maths, 43 years not 33. It's an old machine. That snow plow looks somewhat....home built. But it looks solid, and I like how it's got hydraulic angle and lift. I assume the springs are to give some flex over lumps in the driveway.

The pictures are better than I expected - it's not a bad machine. Problem is that it might not run, so if you can't actually see it/hear it run, there's quite a bit of risk. If it's money you can afford to lose, then buy it. You might get a machine that runs for years. And if you get a machine that needs work, you can't do worse than whatever money you spend and/or you can put it back in an auction for the next guy.

 

[SBates]

I just realised my poor maths, 43 years not 33. It's an old machine. That snow plow looks somewhat....home built. But it looks solid, and I like how it's got hydraulic angle and lift. I assume the springs are to give some flex over lumps in the driveway.

The pictures are better than I expected - it's not a bad machine. Problem is that it might not run, so if you can't actually see it/hear it run, there's quite a bit of risk. If it's money you can afford to lose, then buy it. You might get a machine that runs for years. And if you get a machine that needs work, you can't do worse than whatever money you spend and/or you can put it back in an auction for the next guy.

PaulL, I too at first glance thought the plow might be home built but later I found a YouTube video of a fellow using that same model and year tractor plowing snow and the plow assembly was identical to the one on the auction tractor. I think now that that plow assembly might be a Kubota part which to me is a plus as I prefer the factory accessories if available. Yes, the hydraulic angle/lift control for the blade would be a huge plus as for years now I have had to do all of that manually when plowing snow; getting on and off the machine to pull a pin, swiveling the blade right or left, raising and lowering the blade with a mechanical lever, etc.

Evidently the machine does run. Shortly after I saw the auction ad I contacted the auction company and asked a number of questions, two of which were; "Does the tractor run and drive?" and "Is the plow functional?" The person responded yes to both actually going out and personally checking. But you are correct not actually hearing it run and personally driving it does present an element of risk.

It is indeed an old tractor but here in Alaska you don't really have the option of thinking "Well, I'll just wait and look for something newer or in better condition" because it might be years before you see something similar come along. I have been looking for about four years now for a good compact 4x4 tractor, Kubota if possible.

Anyway, thanks for your continued interest and thoughts on the subject.

Shel

 

[TheOldHokie]

PaulL, I too at first glance thought the plow might be home built but later I found a YouTube video of a fellow using that same model and year tractor plowing snow and the plow assembly was identical to the one on the auction tractor. I think now that that plow assembly might be a Kubota part which to me is a plus as I prefer the factory accessories if available. Yes, the hydraulic angle/lift control for the blade would be a huge plus as for years now I have had to do all of that manually when plowing snow; getting on and off the machine to pull a pin, swiveling the blade right or left, raising and lowering the blade with a mechanical lever, etc.

Evidently the machine does run. Shortly after I saw the auction ad I contacted the auction company and asked a number of questions, two of which were; "Does the tractor run and drive?" and "Is the plow functional?" The person responded yes to both actually going out and personally checking. But you are correct not actually hearing it run and personally driving it does present an element of risk.

It is indeed an old tractor but here in Alaska you don't really have the option of thinking "Well, I'll just wait and look for something newer or in better condition" because it might be years before you see something similar come along. I have been looking for about four years now for a good compact 4x4 tractor, Kubota if possible.

Anyway, thanks for your continued interest and thoughts on the subject.

Shel

Yes - the plow is a Kubota OEM implement. At one point I knew the model number because I was looking for one for my 1985 B7200. As a data point my tractor has something north of 4000 hours on it but I am not sure how far north. The hour meter on it only has 3 digits left of the tenths and I have lost count of the number of times it has rolled over. The meter on the B7200 is mechanical and only runs when the engine is running and sometimes not even then The engine has never been touched and it starts and runs as easily as it did when I purchased it 20+ years ago. Those old diesel engines are just about bullet proof. It has lost some power but was still plowing snow last winter. The only operational issue with my tractor is a broken FWD shaft (happened while mowing this spring) and the brakes -they are so oil soaked from axle oil leaks they are non-existent. Makes operating on a hillside a real adventure. I have new seals, drums, and shoes so maybe with a brand spanking new L01 to do the chores this winter I will find time to get it into the shop and get it healthy again..

Good luck in your quest - Alaska has to be a tough market and operating environment for tractors.

Dan

 

[GreensvilleJay]

I copied and zoomed it up 500%, clearly see the 1st digit is a '6', so 6742.3 hours

 

[SBates]

Yes - the plow is a Kubota OEM implement. At one point I knew the model number because I was looking for one for my 1985 B7200. As a data point my tractor has something north of 4000 hours on it but I am not sure how far north. The hour meter on it only has 3 digits left of the tenths and I have lost count of the number of times it has rolled over. The meter on the B7200 is mechanical and only runs when the engine is running and sometimes not even then The engine has never been touched and it starts and runs as easily as it did when I purchased it 20+ years ago. Those old diesel engines are just about bullet proof. It has lost some power but was still plowing snow last winter. The only operational issue with my tractor is a broken FWD shaft (happened while mowing this spring) and the brakes -they are so oil soaked from axle oil leaks they are non-existent. Makes operating on a hillside a real adventure. I have new seals, drums, and shoes so maybe with a brand spanking new L01 to do the chores this winter I will find time to get it into the shop and get it healthy again..

Good luck in your quest - Alaska has to be a tough market and operating environment for tractors.

Dan

Dan; Thanks for your confirmation about the plow assembly being OEM. That's good to know. I had viewed a number of online parts drawings of Kubota implements but didn't find any that matched that particular plow assembly.

Also, thanks for sharing the info about your '85 B7200 and its 4000+ hours and no major problems. Again, good for me to hear. And it further helps me keep the importance of an hour meter reading in perspective. That's one of the reasons that I have wanted to find an older (especially per-emissions) Kubota diesel 4x4 tractor. I have always had the impression that they are very sturdy machines.

Shel

 

[SBates]

I copied and zoomed it up 500%, clearly see the 1st digit is a '6', so 6742.3 hours

GreensvilleJay; Thank you for your input. Indeed, I think that is now the general consensus; the meter reading is 6742.3 and not 0742.3. I am now comfortable with that thanks to all of the very helpful responses, contributions and advice from all who are following this thread.

Shel

 

[torch]

I guess I will taking the dreaded old sidekick "Buyer Be Ware!" with me to the auction.

So you will be attending the auction in person? If so, have them fire it up. Pay close attention to the exhaust. There should be little to no visible smoke when it is warmed up. A bit of black smoke initially is not worrisome, but it should clean up quickly. Excessive black smoke could be anything from a dirty air filter to worn injector(s).

White smoke suggests a cylinder is not firing. That can happen if the glow plugs are not pre-heated long enough. But it can also be an indication of something really serious like a cracked block or head.

Blue smoke may be an indicator of excessive internal engine wear.

 

[D2Cat]

Shel, the actual number showing on the hour meter may be 67xx however the key could have been left on and the meter ticking without the engine running.

When I look at the pictures I notice the key has an attachment that hangs down and rubs the paint. From what I see there not much paint is rubbed off. The tires look to be in excellent condition. No weather marks shown in the pictures. The hose to the radiator looks to have been replaced and in excellent condition. The battery wires and battery are fairly new also. Seat looks to be in good condition without rust on the back side. Paint looks good, may have been touched up, but not rusted.

I sold a B7100 (with HST) two months ago for 4K. The hour meter showed about 800 hrs. It worked but I don't know the accuracy. I had the tractor for 6-7 years and used it about 5hr a year. That's why I sold it, just not using it and taking space.

This model of Kubota was a VERY popular model and a lot of them are everywhere. Parts are available but getting more difficult to find. However, if this machine starts and runs fine it may go years without anything major needing attention. (Do you have someone who can do mechanical work if it's needed, if not do not purchase it because you might get a minor problem and not get it solved?)

Since you have a need I'd take someone with me and go to the auction (or go before the auction to inspect) and see how it starts, if gears shift OK, hydraulics work for plow. Know what the value is in your "neck of the woods' and bid accordingly.