Need advice on Motor for Hydraulic Chute Rotation Mod

[clandestoy]

Hello all, I am new to OTT and to tractors. I own a Kubota BX2370 with 135 hours that I purchased from my next door neighbor over the summer after he sold his home. It came with a front end loader and a 60" mid mount mower, I have since purchased a GCK60-23BX grass catcher, and recently picked up a 2750D snow blower for it. I have the FEL loader removed since I mostly use it for mowing, and will be removing the mower in the near future once it gets cold enough that the grass stops growing and no longer needs to be cut.

I would like to convert the manual chute rotation to hydraulic using the open bucket curl and dump ports on the control lever.

I apologize but I have searched through a large number of threads and have not been able to find this information in detail, mostly due to inactive links to motors or threads that just end mid stream. Nor have I been able to find a thread that takes you through a build from start to finish with some degree of the detail required to complete the project. I am very handy and can manufacture most of what is needed to mount the system and would be very grateful if anyone can point me to a good build thread.

I know there are electric conversion options, but I would prefer to take advantage of the open hydraulic ports and go electric on the chute deflector using a linear actuator.

I have been searching for a low speed / low torque hydraulic motor that doesn't weigh a ton, but I am beginning to think they don't exist. I am certain that it doesn't take more than a pound of force to rotate the worm drive and there is no side load to speak of, but everything I find is big, bulky (aka heavy), and high rpm.

I believe Kubota uses Eagle Hydraulic EBMP motors for their chute system. I placed a call to Eagle and they were very helpful, but unfortunately they deal in large wholesale only and directed me to one of their US reps. The issue is I am having trouble finding a dealer that actually has them in stock.

I am hoping someone could advise me if any of these motors would work for this application? If one is a better fit than the other, or if they have any suggestions on a motor better suited to the task that I can purchase that is still available? Any recommendations on port type (SAE, Metric, NPTF), hose type and diameters, and any other suggestions or recommendations would be greatly appreciated as well

I would like to know if this information regarding the BX2370's hydraulics are correct?

Open Center
GPM: 6.1
Pressure: 1780 to 1840


These are a few of the motors I found.

This one is from Eagle Hydraulic which their rep said is a good fit. I am waiting to hear back from one of their local US distributors on availability and price.

This one is from Tractor Supply and is readily available:

Thank you in advance for any assistance you can provide.

 

[DustyRusty]

There was an old fella on TBN that did just what you are wanting to do. I found his old posts, and they should get you onto the correct track. Search for the motor on eBay, and you might just get lucky and find one like the junkman did. If you have questions, I can relay them to Junkman for his advice. He is up there in years, but if you catch him on a good day, his recall memory is working fine. He eventually abandoned the chute hydraulic top adjustment and cut the ring out so the chute could turn 360 degrees. Once he had his new cab, getting a face full of snow wasn't a problem. https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/threads/hydraulic-chute-rotator-on-the-bx2750-snowblower.49533/

 

[mikester]

https://www.princessauto.com/en/searchresults?Nr=product.active%3A1&Ntt=hydraulic%20motor*&Nty=1&No=0&Nrpp=50&Rdm=441&searchType=simple&type=search

You probably want a higher cu.in. per rev to make it spin more slowly. Match it to your tractor GPM

 

[clandestoy]

DustyRusty and Mikester,

Thank you both very much for your links. DustyRusty, that build thread is exactly what I am looking for. Mikester, thank you for the link to Princess Auto, oddly enough they never came up on searches for hydraulic motors. I will be going through the web site to see which one is a good fit.

Thank you both again. Be well, stay safe, and Happy Tractoring

 

[clandestoy]

Gentlemen,

I have a few questions regarding case drains.

1. Do all hydraulic motors have them, or are there some that don't?

2. If yes, how would I plumb it into my existing system?

3. If no, do I just find a motor that does not have one?

 

[shelkol]

You have to have the 4-way hydraulic valve which you probably do. The first position in the valve to dump is a regenerative and will not work with a motor. The further dump position is straight and will work with a motor. At least that's the way it is with the BX2200.

If you add a 3rd function valve it can work fine.

Once you pick a motoro and get it working please report back as I'd like to do that also.

 

[mikester]

On these small motors you can run without a case drain, especially considering the low cycle times the motor will get. I never connected one for my converted chute turner. Some hydraulic motors require a case drain.

Google searches are the pits these days, only great for finding links to spammers, malware and porn sites. Legit sites lose out to scammers using adware.

 

[clandestoy]

I was able to confirm that Kubota uses the Eagle Hydraulics motors for their hydraulic setup, it's listed right there in their manual for the hydraulic chute rotation for part #11.

I called my dealer today and they want $895.00 for the hydraulic and $370.00 for the electric. I may go the electric route using some of the other mods I have seen and see how it works out to get me through this winter and then decide whether to leave it as is or go back to the hydraulic setup.

I just don't want to deal with a manual chute rotator, I hate it on my regular snow blower as well.

I found this neat electric control setup on the WoodMaxx website, a little pricey at $150.00, but it sure is purty, and functional too.

 

[bird dogger]

First, welcome to OTT. Since you mentioned going the electric route today I thought I'd show you what I did with the neighbor and just finished a kit for my brother's blower. The same model as yours. Here's a pic or two:


And here's the post: What did you do to or on your Kubota today? | OrangeTractorTalks - Everything Kubota See post #9,945

12vdc power window motor under $20 usually. Spins the chute from full left to full right in probably 3 seconds or less. With a reversing switch, motor and some fused wiring the total cost shouldn't run you more than $30 to $40. If you'd need help making a shaft adapter, I'd be happy to help you out.

 

[clandestoy]

Bird Dogger,

Thank you very much for the post and the pics, there is nice clear detail that I can use in them. In regards to the wiring,

1. Did you use a double pole /double throw switch for it to reverse?
2. How did you house the switch?
3. What gauge wire did you use?
4. What amp fuse did you use?
5. Did you wire straight to the battery, or off of another circuit?
6. Did you have to use any relays in the circuit?

Any suggestions and/or pictures are greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

Regards,

Cesar

 

[bird dogger]

Bird Dogger,

Thank you very much for the post and the pics, there is nice clear detail that I can use in them. In regards to the wiring,

1. Did you use a double pole /double throw switch for it to reverse?
2. How did you house the switch?
3. What gauge wire did you use?
4. What amp fuse did you use?
5. Did you wire straight to the battery, or off of another circuit?
6. Did you have to use any relays in the circuit?

Any suggestions and/or pictures are greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

Regards,

Cesar

Hi Cesar, I'll take some pics of the neighbors tractor when I get a chance in the next few days. I know his tractor is being used by his son in law today/tomorrow but should be back in a day or two.

He found a nice little pvc project box with cover to house the switch and mount it to his tractor. You're correct, a DPDT double pole double throw center off switch was used. I believe he found a momentary switch at that. It was a couple years ago so my memory needs jogging. But a very simple wiring job. Those little motors draw very little current. Even 14 ga. wire should be sufficient. I'll measure the current draw on the motor I have. But just a small 2 conductor cable to the motor from the switch, and the same for power is all you need. Can easily supply you a wiring diagram.

For as little current as they draw, you could probably tap into any fused circuit on your tractor. Or run a separate circuit properly fused.

It's just surprising how well the setup works. It's fast. It's cheap. And easy to put together.

We have a little surplus store here that had a bunch of these motors but are now all gone. You can find them on Ebay, etc. Or guessing an auto junkyard may have a bunch as well.

As soon as I get a pic of the neighbor's setup, I'll post it here. If you want more detailed pics let me know. My brother hasn't picked up his blower yet but may possibly be here this weekend.

David

 

[clandestoy]

Bird Dogger,

I would appreciate any pictures and wiring diagram you can provide. I am a little hesitant to try and do the connections without a plan, I am afraid to fry something.

Is my understanding correct in that I can wire up both the chute rotator and the deflector motors to the same circuit on separate switches and I should be okay as long as I operate only one at a time, or do I need to run separate feeds from the battery or fuse panel for each?

I do plan to add an expansion fuse panel to my tractor to be able to add lights and have room for any other options I may find. I have seen some threads where other owners have done this, I'll go back and look. I think it may be a good idea to just add that panel now since I am going to be wiring up the two motors and be done with it.

Any ideas in this area would be appreciated as well.

Thanks in advance.

Regards,

Cesar

 

[DustyRusty]

I would take power off of the battery and have each motor fused separately. That way, if the fuse blows, you know what appliance to check to figure out why it blew. If you want an electric chute hood motor assembly, I have one that was installed on my snowblower last year, that I am taking off and converting to hydraulic, since I have all the necessary parts to do this. I bought the blower used, and it came with the hydraulic chute turning mechanism, and the electric hood mechanism for moving the hood up and down.

F/S Chute Deflector Electric Kit BX2820A

 

[clandestoy]

I would take power off of the battery and have each motor fused separately. That way, if the fuse blows, you know what appliance to check to figure out why it blew. If you want an electric chute hood motor assembly, I have one that was installed on my snowblower last year, that I am taking off and converting to hydraulic, since I have all the necessary parts to do this. I bought the blower used, and it came with the hydraulic chute turning mechanism, and the electric hood mechanism for moving the hood up and down.

F/S Chute Deflector Electric Kit BX2820A

DustyRusty,

Thank you for your reply. Thank you for the offer, but I have already purchased an actuator for the chute deflection. I am still trying to decide if I want to do the chute rotation hydraulic or electric. I prefer hydraulic but am still trying to determine if it works with the curl/drop (left/right) function of my existing front end loader control lever. Someone in an earlier post mentioned that it may not wok because the first position in the valve to dump is a regenerative and will not work with a motor, but I have been told by others it will work.

The only real way to know is to buy a motor and hoses and hook it up, but it seems like a costly option "just to see" if it will work. I am hoping someone on the forum can provide the motor info of an actual Kubota hydraulic setup, that would be a good start. I did reach out to one of the distributors for Eagle Hydraulics in NY, the ones that Kubota uses but they have not gotten back to me with a price nor availability.

Is there any way you can tell me what hydraulic motor your using for your project?

 

[bird dogger]

Bird Dogger,

I would appreciate any pictures and wiring diagram you can provide. I am a little hesitant to try and do the connections without a plan, I am afraid to fry something.

Is my understanding correct in that I can wire up both the chute rotator and the deflector motors to the same circuit on separate switches and I should be okay as long as I operate only one at a time, or do I need to run separate feeds from the battery or fuse panel for each?

I do plan to add an expansion fuse panel to my tractor to be able to add lights and have room for any other options I may find. I have seen some threads where other owners have done this, I'll go back and look. I think it may be a good idea to just add that panel now since I am going to be wiring up the two motors and be done with it.

Any ideas in this area would be appreciated as well.

Thanks in advance.

Regards,

Cesar

I was able to get some pics and info for you today. Here's the neighbor's control box mounted to his BX2230 bracket that used to be for the manual hand crank chute rotation. It's about 4 inches square and 2 inches deep. He said he wished it was a little bigger, as he mounted a fuse block/terminal block inside as well. The power cable enters the bottom of the box. The bushing/hole in the back is the original hand crank hole and is now used for the control cable that runs to the blower. His rocker switches are momentary/center off and control the chute rotation motor and a 12vdc linear actuator for the chute deflection. The blower control cable has "bullet connectors" so they just unplug from inside the box during the off season.


Here's a better pick of the motor nomenclature. And hooked to a power supply shows it only draws about 1.6 amps. The inrush current was hardly over 2 amps at startup. Even with a dc actuator for chute deflection on the same circuit the total current draw would be minimal and you most likely wouldn't run both controls at the same time anyway. You could easily get by with 18 ga. or smaller wire if you wanted.
A 2 conductor cable for the power and a 4 conductor control cable to the blower.

If I remember right, this motor came with a little brass gear pressed on the shaft. A little heat from a propane torch and it pried right up and off.


To give you an idea of the speed, I got my trusty soviet stopwatch out (for accuracy ) and timed 50 revolutions as best I could. Three trials (hard to watch and count that fast) averaged out to right about 18 seconds. So 3 seconds would give you roughly 8 revolutions which would be a pretty fast crank if you were doing it by hand!

I forgot to ask where the neighbor had tapped into for his power supply. the power cable went under his dash. Not sure if his fuse block was under there or not. You'd have to find the easiest spot on your tractor anyway. If you decide to go this route, I'll draw up a simple wiring diagram and get it to you. A nice little fuse holder on the front panel of that box would be pretty slick.

Hope this helps, Cesar. Let me know if there's anything else we can help you with for now.
David

Edit: It looks like these motors were also used for power seat adjusters and also auto seat belt motors.

 

[DustyRusty]

I asked Junkman if it worked on the tractor joystick and he said it did. He also mentioned that he use flow control valves on each side of the hoses at the motor to slow it down. The tractor has since been sold, so he can't get any pictures of it.

 

[PoTreeBoy]

I see Amazon has motors with output speeds from 2 to 100 RPM for less than $20.

 

[clandestoy]

All,

Thank you very much for your replies.

Bird Dogger, this is awesome, thank you very much. My items started arriving today, but the actuator and a small motor I ordered don't arrive until Monday, unfortunately I have fly out on business the same day and won't be able to start on the project until late in the week, I hope everything has arrived by the time I get back.

Dusty Rusty, Thank you very much for confirming with with Junkman on the controls. I am still waiting for the pricing on the motor from the NY distributor I contacted, but I did find a distributor in PA that has them and they are less than $200.00, I may just go the hydraulic route since I think it would still all come in under $400.00 with a pressure relief valve ($85.00) the hoses, fittings and a mount, $300.00 if I skip the pressure relief valve which I don't think I need. I believe they use it in case the chute rotation reached the end so it doesn't tear things up. I'm going to give my local dealer a call on Monday to see what they want for them.

Below are a couple of examples of Eagle motors with low rpm's and the company's technical chart for this series.

PoTreeBoy, Thank you for the heads up, I actually ordered one of those. The electric motor I purchased was only $20.00 so it's not a major loss if I keep.


Thank you all very much for your input, I will provide updates as things progress. I welcome any and all suggestions, recommendations, comments, and assistance.

Regards,

Cesar

 

[DustyRusty]

With or without the pressure relief, the motor will break the winding mechanism if it reached the end of the travel, no matter how slow the motor turns. Junkman learned that lesson on more than one occasion. To resolve the problem, he cut additional slots in the base of the chute where the winding mechanism contacts the chute. This way, the chute will put snow into your face and remind you that it has gone too far. Once or twice of that happening, you learn to watch how far you allow it to travel, without having broken anything. A lot easier to brush some snow off your face than it is to keep buying a $20 or $30 part. Never underestimate the power of hydraulics.

 

[clandestoy]

Dusty,

Thank you very much for your reply. I have read a few threads where this was mentioned, I think I am going to cut additional teeth into the chute all the way around like you mentioned, a face full of snow will definitely get my attention in a hurry.