Weight limits on Cat 1 attachments

[Ominous]

Looking at options for 3pt ballast for M7060 with heavy grapple. Looking at ballast boxes but there are all Cat 1, including the John Deere that your can get the extension. I figure I can go north of 1000 lbs with the extension, but that made me wonder if I as nearing limits for Cat 1 pins. I can find nothing on that.

Also, bought this tractor slightly used, 245 hours. It has the LSW OPTITRAC tires that prior owner ballasts with water. It rides like Fred Flintstones car, like on rock wheels and lousy traction. Talks with the Titan Ag rep, says that’s about right for those tires, they are designed to flex but water makes the sidewalls rigid. Hard to find good data on this for smaller tractors. Anybody have experience or suggestions?

 

[BigG]

If the water is the problem you could drain them. Then purchase iron weights.

 

[Ominous]

If the water is the problem you could drain them. Then purchase iron weights.

Certainly true. Would prefer not to spend $1000 if I don’t need to. It may come to that though.

 

[mcfarmall]

Support the rear of the tractor on jack stands, bring the valve stem to the 12:00 position and remove the valve core to drain the water down to a level even with the top of the rim. Replace the valve core and inflate the tire to 10-15 lbs. This will make a softer ride as the pocket of air will act as a cushion and allow more sidewall flex.

 

[foobert]

Cat1 pins are unlikely to be the first source of failure from overload. .875" pin w/ 85Kpsi ultimate strength (low end for medium steel) can withstand a sheer load 50000# of before failure.

This is a very simplistic loading model compared to what's really applied on the pin, but just maybe that'll set your mind at ease a little.

 

[Magicman]

I am sorta puzzled because a properly loaded tire should ride "easier" than an air inflated tire.

 

[foobert]

a properly loaded tire should ride "easier" than an air inflated tire.

More correctly, it should ride "about the same" as unloaded tire at the same pressure. In both cases, there's enough air in the tire to allow for compression from bumps. In the loaded tire case, it's just a smaller volume of air.

 

[Magicman]

Not so for me. Exact same air pressure, my air only tires ride much rougher than they did when loaded. The tire shop told me it would and they were correct. That is my experience.

 

[NCL4701]

Even with the low side walls, it should flex as it engages the ground. If it doesn’t, it will ride rough and not pull as well as it should due to not maximizing the quantity of lugs in contact with the ground. Lack of flex will also prevent it from self cleaning appropriately (a common issue with R4’s that flex much less than R1’s). Sounds like you may have too high air pressure in them. Of course if you have too much fluid in them, that could be part or all of the problem, fluid not being compressible. I’d do exactly what mcfarmall said. That will most likely improve the tires’ performance..

 

[Ominous]

And also my experience with my 20 year old MCCormick C70 with loaded bias ply tires. These radials appear to have different ride characteristics, thus my post. Would love to ear from someone who has these tires.

 

[CGMKCM]

Looking at options for 3pt ballast for M7060 with heavy grapple. Looking at ballast boxes but there are all Cat 1, including the John Deere that your can get the extension. I figure I can go north of 1000 lbs with the extension, but that made me wonder if I as nearing limits for Cat 1 pins. I can find nothing on that.

Also, bought this tractor slightly used, 245 hours. It has the LSW OPTITRAC tires that prior owner ballasts with water. It rides like Fred Flintstones car, like on rock wheels and lousy traction. Talks with the Titan Ag rep, says that’s about right for those tires, they are designed to flex but water makes the sidewalls rigid. Hard to find good data on this for smaller tractors. Anybody have experience or suggestions?

The Kubota ballast box rated for 1,000lbs P/N KL8170 has reversible pins and can be used as Cat 1 or 2, mine cost $600. Expensive but very well made.

I have a 4760 that rode very rough and lost traction on ground that my old tractor with r4s had no problem with. A few days ago I looked at the tires and they looked over inflated. I jacked up the rear of the tractor and spun the tire untill the valve stem was at 12 o clock. Checked pressure and water shot out. I pulled the valve core and water shot out. I drained 10 gallons of water out of the tire before the water stopped flowing. I then topped off the tire with 15 PSI of air and repeated the draining etc. on the opposite tire. After doing all of that, the tractor rides much better and has better traction. My owners manual shows what level to liquid ballast the tires and leaving space for air.

 

[Ominous]

I’ve not seen that part on any web site. That looks like the size I’m looking for. Did you buy that recently? I found an older Kubota part number that app s to be obsolete now, different desgin.

Titan Attachments is the only Cat2 box I’ve seen but out of stock with no ETA. Any steel products out of Asia look to be backed up.

 

[jimr63]

Looking at options for 3pt ballast for M7060 with heavy grapple. Looking at ballast boxes but there are all Cat 1, including the John Deere that your can get the extension. I figure I can go north of 1000 lbs with the extension, but that made me wonder if I as nearing limits for Cat 1 pins. I can find nothing on that.

Also, bought this tractor slightly used, 245 hours. It has the LSW OPTITRAC tires that prior owner ballasts with water. It rides like Fred Flintstones car, like on rock wheels and lousy traction. Talks with the Titan Ag rep, says that’s about right for those tires, they are designed to flex but water makes the sidewalls rigid. Hard to find good data on this for smaller tractors. Anybody have experience or suggestions?

I bought the larger Cat 2 JD ballast box (P/N BW15852) which is 385lbs by itself and dumped almost 1/2 yard of CR6 stone in it for my M5 with loaded tires. Figuring I have around 1800lbs of extra ballast with the box. Then I cut a piece of 1" round bar to span the width of it when I need to use it on my L47 which is Cat 1 and has no fluid in the tires.

 

[CGMKCM]

I’ve not seen that part on any web site. That looks like the size I’m looking for. Did you buy that recently? I found an older Kubota part number that app s to be obsolete now, different desgin.

Titan Attachments is the only Cat2 box I’ve seen but out of stock with no ETA. Any steel products out of Asia look to be backed up.

I messed up the P/N on the ballast box. The P/N is L8170 I added a K to it. I ordered the box the end of October 2020 and it was in stock Kubota facility in Ga. It took a couple of weeks to be delivered to my dealer. The box is MFG in Canada and is well built with mostly 1/4" plate. lifting points use thicker plate.

 

[Ominous]

.

I bought the larger Cat 2 JD ballast box (P/N BW15852) which is 385lbs by itself and dumped almost 1/2 yard of CR6 stone in it for my M5 with loaded tires. Figuring I have around 1800lbs of extra ballast with the box. Then a cut a piece of 1" round bar to span the width of it when I need to use it on my L47 which is Cat 1 and has no fluid in the tires.

I looked at the Cat2 JD. it certainly would work, but it was north of $1200, which seemed steep, thus the search for other options.

I did call my local dealer. He had yet a different part number, M8181. It’s $600 but shipping is still TBD. If he can get it on the Kubota delivery, great, otherwise $300 to ship.

I have almost decided my path.
1) drain fluid from tires to see how those high dollar radials perform. Only water in them so easy to drain and test and I have to partially drain them regardless since I need to add freeze protection.
2) buy the wheel weights. That gets me ~740 lbs.
3) if I don’t have to pay freight, I’ll get the Kubota M8181 box. OTherwise, I’ll hang an implement on the back for ballast in the short term and wait for the Titan box.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

option #4
build or buy a 3PH 'carryall' and put ballast on a skid.
That way the tractor's NOT got 1000# or whatever,on it 24/7, when not needed.
You could have 2 skids, light and heavy. Use whichevr gives the tractor the correct weight for the job it has to do
If you actually do 'full maxxed out' loads all the time then permanent ballast on the tractor makes sense, but usually that's not the case. Why stress out the tractor when it's not needed ?

 

[Thunder chicken]

Hopefully you can solve your rough ride issue, new rubber won’t be cheap!
Can you make your own ballast box? Find an old 55gal drum? This way you can use Cat 2 pins if you desire. I’d think most boxes you’d buy would have the replaceable pins anyways and you could Swant them out (maybe have to drill the mounting hole). Even if a cat1 pin is strong enough, it saves you the hassle of keeping bushings around.
I lift heavy loads with my forks and Try to use my rear blade for ballast. But I also forget a lot of times, while not good for the machine, I also believe it’s built to withstand that kind of use as well. I’m not travelling far with a heavy front load mind you (and I have cast centre’s and wheel weights but that’s more for stability than counterweight)

 

[Ominous]

option #4
build or buy a 3PH 'carryall' and put ballast on a skid.
That way the tractor's NOT got 1000# or whatever,on it 24/7, when not needed.
You could have 2 skids, light and heavy. Use whichevr gives the tractor the correct weight for the job it has to do
If you actually do 'full maxxed out' loads all the time then permanent ballast on the tractor makes sense, but usually that's not the case. Why stress out the tractor when it's not needed ?

I’m sorta splitting the baby on permanent ballast with wheel weights vs 3 pt hitch ballast. The wheel weights will be less than the liquid in the tires but still provide some stability. Then when using that heavy grapple moving logs, I can add another 1000 lbs or so on 3pt hitch. That's starting to feel like the best compromise. The Titan field rep is going to come out and weigh the tractor in the next couple of weeks which will give me another data point. I don’t think I’ll really know til I get some seat time on the various FEL attachments.

 

[Ominous]

Hopefully you can solve your rough ride issue, new rubber won’t be cheap!
Can you make your own ballast box? Find an old 55gal drum? This way you can use Cat 2 pins if you desire. I’d think most boxes you’d buy would have the replaceable pins anyways and you could Swant them out (maybe have to drill the mounting hole). Even if a cat1 pin is strong enough, it saves you the hassle of keeping bushings around.
I lift heavy loads with my forks and Try to use my rear blade for ballast. But I also forget a lot of times, while not good for the machine, I also believe it’s built to withstand that kind of use as well. I’m not travelling far with a heavy front load mind you (and I have cast centre’s and wheel weights but that’s more for stability than counterweight)

I really thought about rolling my own. And while I don’t have a lot f money, I have even less time and others projects stacked up. ITS a calculated trade off.

 

[Thunder chicken]

Fwiw, I have pallet forks with a single arm grapple. I’m picking up a good jag of logs at a time out of a pile and moving them around. Even without the rear ballast on I don’t have any issues. Sometimes she feels a bit light on the rears so the next one I just try to take a few less. Maybe try your set up without weight before you worry too much about it.