Running a new well supply line. What about laying in 4" conduit and pulling the poly & wire through it?

[Mark_BX25D]

I thought I'd pick a few brains tonight. I need to lay in a new well supply line and wire. I have been doing some grading which lowered the ground level, even to exposing my old line. So, it needs to go down before freezing weather hits, and it's got at least one splice in it anyway, and the wire is only 14 gauge. I plan to upgrade the pump so I need something bigger.

What do you think of laying in 4" conduit and pulling the new line & wire through it? This would make it possible to replace it in the future if it ever needed it, without having to dig again.

The big question is, would 1 or 1 1/4" poly pull through a 4" sweep or two. Or 4.

Thoughts?

 

[Roadworthy]

The limit is 360 degrees of bends in a conduit run - I'd use less if possible. Four inch conduit is definitely overkill for fourteen gauge wire. My well uses number six wire and it's run in one inch conduit, though the run is only about fifty feet with two ninety degree bends. Your one inch poly is adequate and then some. Of course some of this is dependent on length of pull, which you've not stated.

 

[Lil Foot]

As I understand it, you want to pull wire that is heavier than 14ga AND a 1" poly water line. With a minimum of bends (maybe 45s?) it should be doable, depending on the total length.

 

[OkieM8560]

I would consider running two runs of poly or HDPE. Then utilizing one as a conduit for the wire and the other as an unprotected waterline. My thought is that if something was capable of damaging the unprotected water line I wouldn't want the same damage to happen to the water line and wire combo even in conduit. My opinion is that its better if these were ran separate due to the electrocution hazard. Also the cost is likely less for 2 smaller lines than for 4" conduit. This might not be significant if the run is pretty short. When I back filled mine I trenched 44-48", placed wire, back filled ~12", placed water line, then 6" from surface placed a "buried wire" caution tape. My run was 300' so material prices were significant. That said I'm a huge fan of conduit! Nothing like wishing you had one when you don't.

 

[mikester]

I wish I used 4" Big-O perforated drain pipe between the house and well. If and when the line bursts you want somewhere for the water to run other than your house.

 

[BAP]

Usually, most codes require 12”+ separation between electrical and water lines in a ditch for safety.

 

[shelkol]

I've tried to snake a new wire into conduit that already had wire in it, not fun. So if you had the water line and wire in the same conduit you may be defeating your purpose. I think I'd run separate conduit for the wire. Maybe put the water line into it's own conduit also. Then you could replace either without digging stuff up

 

[D2Cat]

What are you digging with, trencher or backhoe? With a hoe, dig the depth you need and put a 1" conduit on one side and run the water line on the other side and backfill. You are wasting money putting the water line in a sleeve unless you're burying in a rock pile. However, if you do put the water line in a 4" pvc sleeve be use to use "sweeps" not "90's"....very big difference.

 

[BAP]

Direct burry and use 160psi black poly for the water and you won’t have to worry about replacing it in your lifetime unless someone digs into it.

 

[34by151]

I've tried to snake a new wire into conduit that already had wire in it, not fun. So if you had the water line and wire in the same conduit you may be defeating your purpose. I think I'd run separate conduit for the wire. Maybe put the water line into it's own conduit also. Then you could replace either without digging stuff up

When I have long difficult runs I pull the cable using a shop vac.
I tie some cloth to the end of the string and draw it up with the shopvac.
The cloth allows the shopvac to develop vac in the conduct drawing it forward.
If you need more power add an air duster to the open end

 

[shelkol]

When I have long difficult runs I pull the cable using a shop vac.
I tie some cloth to the end of the string and draw it up with the shopvac.
The cloth allows the shopvac to develop vac in the conduct drawing it forward.
If you need more power add an air duster to the open end

I did that too, but it was an empty conduit at the time. I'm saying if he put a single 4" with a water line and wire, if he tries to add a wire or replace a wire, the conduit is not longer empty and it may be more difficult to get a snake or line through it.

 

[dlsmith]

Just an idea, but you might want to run a poly rope in the line also, just in case another cable needs to be pulled through.

 

[34by151]

Just an idea, but you might want to run a poly rope in the line also, just in case another cable needs to be pulled through.

Always a good idea to leave a tail in place for latter

 

[mikester]

Direct burry and use 160psi black poly for the water and you won’t have to worry about replacing it in your lifetime unless someone digs into it.

I wish that was true. Lat winter I helped a neighbor replace his 20 year old 160psi black poly that ruptured in January

 

[Magicman]

Yup, always pull in an extra pull wire each time you pull anything in.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

dig trench 4' deep ( below frost line and then some...), lay 4" conduit for the water pipe,cover with 12" of gravel, lay 1" conduit for electrical wire, cover with 12" gravel, caution tape, backfill.
What we don't know is the distance and is the pump in a 'pump house' ? You may want to run another wire in the 1" conduit for an 'alarm' if the pump fails, freezeup, etc. At the very least, keep a pullcord in the conduits, just in case. If you don't 'Murphy' will come by !

 

[Mark_BX25D]

Thanks for all the comments, gents. Good info. To clarify, my big problem is that I have a very nice oak tree that decided to grow up about 5 feet from my wellhead. If I just backhoe my way to the wellhead, I will kill the tree. I'm trying to avoid that, so I am contemplating digging down (BX25D) about 30' away from the wellhead, and boring across to it a few feet down from the surface. The land drops down about 3' there, so I can dig a few more feet and have good working room. Currently, the pipe and wire are together and I was thinking of just running them both in a 4" conduit to make it possible to pull and replace either one in the future. I would have only one 90 bend, and yes, I would use a sweep, not an elbow!

I could just dig down and splice to the existing line back where the land drops, but I hate the idea of having a splice there, as I've had to dig and repair one already. And then part of it is old line and 14 guage. Might be okay if I run overkill (6 or 8 gauge) to that point. I'll have to do the calcs on voltage drop. I want to be able to supply a 1 hp pump, and the total run from the breaker panel is about 120 feet. If that last 30' stays at 14 gauge I might be okay.

And then there's the question of concrete. I plan to lay a slab over the area, and if I run a straight line, it will be under the slab. If I avoid the slab, I'll be adding two bends.

 

[mikester]

I'd be removing that tree or any tree near the well, septic and house foundation. Trust me you don't want a tree growing 5 feet from your well.

 

[Mark_BX25D]

That tree has probably been growing there since shortly after the well was put in place. It hasn't harmed the well, and I see no reason to think it will any time soon. It would have to get a LOT bigger to be any threat.

I took out an oak that was about 36" across the stump (probably 24" DBH), growing about 6 feet from my d-box, just because that looked like it was asking for trouble. When I replaced the concrete D-box later that year, I didn't find any damage that I could trace to that oak. I found some very small roots growing in around the pipes, but most of them appeared to come from trees farther away. There were no large roots that could have come from the big oak.

 

[NHSleddog]

If you ever want to sell the place and pass an inspection, keep them separate. That is in the national electric code.

Up here with rust and hard water, I replace the lines at my fathers place at least every 7 or 8 years. We run the black poly 2 at a time now so the spare is ready to go.