COVID-19 Stuff

[NHSleddog]

Don't you find it troubling that "DEATHS" are counted differently?

I mean, there is little ambiguity. One has died of something or they have not.

"Two bullet wounds to the back of the head, obvious suicide!"

They don't find it troubling, they turn a blind eye because it fits the narrative they are pushing.

So for over 100 years "fever" has been 100.4. many states in Jan. changed it to 99.5, some changed it to 100.0, (it differs by state now) this created a huge "spike" in "covid" admittance at hospitals (like my father who never had it). That HUGE SPIKE was all fake news and Flip sucked it right up. And it continues on creating more fake cases.

The worst outbreak in the country in NY was due to the governor shipping Covid patients to nursing homes. YES THEY SENT COVID PATIENTS TO THE MOST VULNERABLE locations in the state. You won't see this reported in the fake news but look it up, it happened. And it was done on purpose. All those nursing home deaths WERE caused, they were not accidents.

There is grossly negligent number counting in EVERY state so far. This has been proven, so we have more fake news. We have so much fake news about this going around, some people are ready to shoot others while out shopping - true story.

The CDC "changed" the way they don't count regular flu deaths AGAIN. Fortunately, nobody dies from it anymore if you can believe that. Now we lump them in with ILI (influenza like illnesses) guess what Covid is? - SMH. Keep in mind they don't actually count ANY flu deaths yearly, they just guess. They literally guess. Sheep will come in here and explain how it is a super good guess and it was printed on the internet so it must be right.

There is only just over 6000 hospitals in the country - the whole country.
There is just over 60,000 ICU beds (about a 10 bed average per hospital).
So for the average hospital CAPACITY the way it is reported is about 10 patients.

"Hospital at capacity!" sounds a whole lot worse than,
"We are currently testing 10 patients to see if they have it".
This is just ANOTHER way to easily lead those that are easily led.

 

[sheepfarmer]

They don't find it troubling, they turn a blind eye because it fits the narrative they are pushing.

So for over 100 years "fever" has been 100.4. in Jan. it was changed to 99.5, this created a huge "spike" in "covid" admittance at hospitals (like my father who never had it). That HUGE SPIKE was all fake news and Flip sucked it right up. And it continues on creating more fake cases.

The worst outbreak in the country in NY was due to the governor shipping Covid patients to nursing homes. YES THEY SENT COVID PATIENTS TO THE MOST VULNERABLE locations in the state. You won't see this reported in the fake news but look it up, it happened. And it was done on purpose. All those nursing home deaths WERE caused, they were not accidents.

There is grossly negligent number counting in EVERY state so far. This has been proven, so we have more fake news. We have so much fake news about this going around, some people are ready to shoot others while out shopping - true story.

The CDC "changed" the way they don't count regular flu deaths AGAIN. Fortunately, nobody dies from it anymore if you can believe that. Now we lump them in with ILI (influenza like illnesses) guess what Covid is? - SMH. Keep in mind they don't actually count ANY flu deaths yearly, they just guess. They literally guess. Sheep will come in here and explain how it is a super good guess and it was printed on the internet so it must be right.

There is only just over 6000 hospitals in the country - the whole country.
There is just over 60,000 ICU beds (about a 10 bed average per hospital).
So for the average hospital CAPACITY the way it is reported is about 10 patients.

"Hospital at capacity!" sounds a whole lot worse than,
"We are currently testing 10 patients to see if they have it".
This is just ANOTHER way to easily lead those that are easily led.

You'll have to provide some citations for what you are saying. Some things are simply not true. Eg The nursing home disaster in NY was all over all the news, assuming your idea of fake news is mainstream media like NBC, CBS, Public Radio.

 

[SidecarFlip]

I find NPR is rife with propaganda but then look at who / what supports it to understand.

 

[NHSleddog]

You'll have to provide some citations for what you are saying. Some things are simply not true. Eg The nursing home disaster in NY was all over all the news, assuming your idea of fake news is mainstream media like NBC, CBS, Public Radio.

NY hospitals sent some 6,300 coronavirus patients to nursing homes, officials say, as Cuomo tries to deflect

New York hospitals released more than 6,300 recovering coronavirus patients into nursing homes during the height of the pandemic under a controversial, now-scrapped policy, state officials said Monday, but they argued it was not to blame for one of the nation’s highest nursing home death tolls.

www.foxnews.com

Is about the only mainstream place you can find how it happened, the policy change that allowed it to happen, and the results of it happening.

MOST articles you read about the NY Nursing Home Deaths, DO NOT mention the 6,300 Covid patients SENT to the nursing homes. Or the March 25th policy change that allowed it to happen. It was actually planned in NY. They should be put in jail.

MOST of the articles say it came from the health care providers.

I am sure you can spin this into something else.

Did NY change the policy March 25th allowing the covid patients to be sent to the most vulnerable people in the state? Were 6300 patients sent to the most vulnerable in the state? Are you arguing that, or the number of articles that talked about it?

And the elephant tap-danced through the room.

 

[Tornado]

The story of NY sending covid patients to nursing homes has been widely reported - it was fiercely debated in the state among health officials. Some nursing facilities actually defied the order. The whole ordeal has been reported on all over the place, and Cuomo has taken a lot of heat for the policy. Wether you agree or disagree I think you have to look at why the order was made though. I think it was a terrible Idea personally, as do most people, especially how as we can see what it caused. However, the order was made with the purpose of freeing up hospital beds in NY when cases were skyrocketing and they were anticipating having many hospitals be totally over run. I think honestly Cuomo made the order not expecting for it to just run rampant in the nursing homes, and then when it happened it was too late to take back.

As I mentioned before, My wife is an ADON (assistant director of nursing) at one of these facilities, so she is 2nd only the nursing director. She is heavily involved in this issue right now everyday. The issue is that many of the nursing home patients who end up testing positive have little or no symptoms at all. So they test positive, then the nursing homes send them to the hospital immediately to get them out of the facility. The hospital gets them, the patient is in no need of medical care - they have no symptoms or extremely mild symptoms, so the hospital discharges them right back out - where does this patient go? Back to the facility of course. My wife has seen tentions flare up between hospitals and nursing homes over this issue. The nursing home wants the covid patient out of the facility for fear of it exploding, and the hospital is saying "we cant just house unsick people and take up beds for people who have a little cough" so its a back and forth. Unless the family decides to pull their loved one out of the facility or something, that is what ends up happening. This is why it spreads in nursing homes. Thankfully the parent company of the facility my wife is in has been handling it as best they can - they are having all covid patients sent to one of their large facilities where they have set up a dedicated covid unit, this way they can quickly transport any positive cases out of all of their other facilities very quickly. Despite this best effort, there are new cases every day at my wifes job. Their census in the building is approaching 50%. What that means is that they are about half empty. Its helping right now because they are extremely short staffed as half of the positive cases are staff and nurses.

I still feel like we just need to open up and just move forward. Trying to "fight" this virus is causing, in many many cases, more harm and damage than if we would just go back to normal and use common sense, eventually the virus will dwindle due to herd immunity. It just baffles me that we think we can some how win this battle by shutting down and sitting in our houses. What do you think happens when we do finally open up? we HAVE to open up eventually or the whole country will just crumble, and when we do open up, the virus is still going to be here, and we are all going to be vulnerable still. This virus is NOT severe enough to warrant the destruction of our entire economy. The vast majority of people who get it are having extremely mild symptoms. Still, of the over 100 cases that my wife and I are personally aware of, not a single one has had a severe illness from it. I am working in the same office right now with co workers who tested positive and are now back on the job. My wife is surrounded by it everyday at her job. We know of many in our small community who have had it. Every case has been a moderate illness at worst, and the vast majority of them had little to no symptoms at all. I think this is why many in my area are now taking the attitude of "This is it ? This is why we are killing our economy? this thing is so mild" Because everyone you encounter who has had it is saying it was no big deal. The news however would have you believe the sky is falling. Selective reporting is powerful.

 

[Poohbear]

I was listening ( was on utube ) to a Dr Robert Ballard telling about how he is treating C19. He does an asthma med ( inhaled steroid ) thru a nebulizer then treats the pneumonia with anti bacterial. Says same as Taiwan & Japan has been doing.

 

[sheepfarmer]

The story of NY sending covid patients to nursing homes has been widely reported - it was fiercely debated in the state among health officials. Some nursing facilities actually defied the order. The whole ordeal has been reported on all over the place, and Cuomo has taken a lot of heat for the policy. Wether you agree or disagree I think you have to look at why the order was made though. I think it was a terrible Idea personally, as do most people, especially how as we can see what it caused. However, the order was made with the purpose of freeing up hospital beds in NY when cases were skyrocketing and they were anticipating having many hospitals be totally over run. I think honestly Cuomo made the order not expecting for it to just run rampant in the nursing homes, and then when it happened it was too late to take back.

As I mentioned before, My wife is an ADON (assistant director of nursing) at one of these facilities, so she is 2nd only the nursing director. She is heavily involved in this issue right now everyday. The issue is that many of the nursing home patients who end up testing positive have little or no symptoms at all. So they test positive, then the nursing homes send them to the hospital immediately to get them out of the facility. The hospital gets them, the patient is in no need of medical care - they have no symptoms or extremely mild symptoms, so the hospital discharges them right back out - where does this patient go? Back to the facility of course. My wife has seen tentions flare up between hospitals and nursing homes over this issue. The nursing home wants the covid patient out of the facility for fear of it exploding, and the hospital is saying "we cant just house unsick people and take up beds for people who have a little cough" so its a back and forth. Unless the family decides to pull their loved one out of the facility or something, that is what ends up happening. This is why it spreads in nursing homes. Thankfully the parent company of the facility my wife is in has been handling it as best they can - they are having all covid patients sent to one of their large facilities where they have set up a dedicated covid unit, this way they can quickly transport any positive cases out of all of their other facilities very quickly. Despite this best effort, there are new cases every day at my wifes job. Their census in the building is approaching 50%. What that means is that they are about half empty. Its helping right now because they are extremely short staffed as half of the positive cases are staff and nurses.

I still feel like we just need to open up and just move forward. Trying to "fight" this virus is causing, in many many cases, more harm and damage than if we would just go back to normal and use common sense, eventually the virus will dwindle due to herd immunity. It just baffles me that we think we can some how win this battle by shutting down and sitting in our houses. What do you think happens when we do finally open up? we HAVE to open up eventually or the whole country will just crumble, and when we do open up, the virus is still going to be here, and we are all going to be vulnerable still. This virus is NOT severe enough to warrant the destruction of our entire economy. The vast majority of people who get it are having extremely mild symptoms. Still, of the over 100 cases that my wife and I are personally aware of, not a single one has had a severe illness from it. I am working in the same office right now with co workers who tested positive and are now back on the job. My wife is surrounded by it everyday at her job. We know of many in our small community who have had it. Every case has been a moderate illness at worst, and the vast majority of them had little to no symptoms at all. I think this is why many in my area are now taking the attitude of "This is it ? This is why we are killing our economy? this thing is so mild" Because everyone you encounter who has had it is saying it was no big deal. The news however would have you believe the sky is falling. Selective reporting is powerful.

Balanced reporting would go a long way to increasing credibility. They mention the mild cases in passing and then go on to the hospitalizations.

 

[Daren Todd]

I've noticed a couple things. The news always says hospitals are at "Max Capacity!!!!!". Some of those hospitals have a "Max Capacity" of 20 patients on the covid ward.

Of course max capacity put's the fear into you better then "they are treating 20 patients".

Wife did some research the other night after someone ticked her off. The total "infected" count is way off in the United states.

CDC and the states are counting positive tests. Not patients. I know another member mentioned this before. My wife verified it.

If a patient has been tested 3 times. And those 3 tests were positive. According to the state and the CDC, those are 3 confirmed cases even though they came from the same person.

So if you get tested and test positive. Go back in a week, get tested again. And that test is positive. Then that means you just got counted twice.

So how many of these cases in the US were double or triple counted?

My wife also found out something really interesting. And I'll see if she can give me the link later on so you can see for yourselves.

A group of nurses started really questioning the accuracy of the test. So they sent in 10 unused swabs in to get tested. Those 10 swabs tested positive.

So either the tests were already infected with the virus. The testing is bogus, or someone at the lab got lazy and started rubber stamping tests as positive with out actually doing the work.

So that brings our total numbers back into question as well.

 

[Tornado]

I was listening ( was on utube ) to a Dr Robert Ballard telling about how he is treating C19. He does an asthma med ( inhaled steroid ) thru a nebulizer then treats the pneumonia with anti bacterial. Says same as Taiwan & Japan has been doing.

thats a pretty standard course of action for someone with pulmonary edema. The steroids are to reduce swelling in the lungs, to help make breathing easier. Using Antibiotics in this same scenario would likely be up to the doctor, based on whether he felt the patient had a 2ndary infection of bacterial origin. Some doctors may also just throw antibiotics at it just as a precaution - as a "just in case" for a severely ill patient, as they may not know for certain if a 2ndary bacterial infection could be at play or not, so they say its better to be safe than sorry. Generally though, its not advisable to just throw antibiotics at someone who is dealing with a viral infection, and especially if the infection is mild to moderate. At the end of the day though what decides if someone lives or dies from covid-19 is their immune system.

In the cases of people developing severe acute pulmonary edema and pneumonia, that is generally due to an overreaction of the bodies immune system to the viral infection. This happens when the body responds to the pulmonary infection by flooding the lungs with fluid (mucus). The body produces mucus as a way to shield and protect tissue in the body when a foreign invader is detected (virus, bacteria, etc) This is why we get runny noses with a cold. The body is trying to protect itself, prevent the invader from causing damage to tissue, and to flush it out of the body. Unfortunately, the biological mechanisms that control all of this in the body can overreact in some folks, causing a cytokine storm. This is the cause for all the stories you hear about in the media where someone had covid, had mild symptoms, then woke up the next morning and couldn't breath, was rushed to the emergency room and then died shortly thereafter. This wasnt actually the virus that killed these folks (I guess technically it was, as it was the cause of the response...) but it was the bodies faulty immune response to the infection that actually killed them. They experienced a cytokine storm, which causes acute pulmonary edema, the body then floods the lungs with mucus and you essentially drown in your own mucus, or from the severe swelling that closes off airways in the lungs. This is where the steroids over nebulizer come in.

The only way to hopefully overcome this type of overreaction is often having the lungs pumped free of fluid and/or going on a ventilator, as the lungs become unable to breathe on their own. Eventually, the body calms down, the cytokin load levels out ,and you either live through that storm or it takes you out. For some the cytokin storm can be weaker, for some it can be overwhelming. Scientist have been trying to find ways to effectively block these cytokin protiens, so the body cant kill itself in this way. As with most medicine and biology however, there is a big downside to administering a cytokin blocker. You essentially shut down one of the bodies fundamental immune response systems to infection. The good news is that for the vast majority of us, we get infected, the virus invades our cells, begins to multiply, our cells throw out cytokin protiens to initiate a defensive response, and within a few days our bodies execute a perfectly balanced response to destroy the virus, followed by the creation of antibodies that effectively prevent that specific virus from being able to invade our cells again. Biology is pretty amazing.

 

[sheepfarmer]

I've noticed a couple things. The news always says hospitals are at "Max Capacity!!!!!". Some of those hospitals have a "Max Capacity" of 20 patients on the covid ward.

Of course max capacity put's the fear into you better then "they are treating 20 patients".

Wife did some research the other night after someone ticked her off. The total "infected" count is way off in the United states.

CDC and the states are counting positive tests. Not patients. I know another member mentioned this before. My wife verified it.

If a patient has been tested 3 times. And those 3 tests were positive. According to the state and the CDC, those are 3 confirmed cases even though they came from the same person.

So if you get tested and test positive. Go back in a week, get tested again. And that test is positive. Then that means you just got counted twice.

So how many of these cases in the US were double or triple counted?

My wife also found out something really interesting. And I'll see if she can give me the link later on so you can see for yourselves.

A group of nurses started really questioning the accuracy of the test. So they sent in 10 unused swabs in to get tested. Those 10 swabs tested positive.

So either the tests were already infected with the virus. The testing is bogus, or someone at the lab got lazy and started rubber stamping tests as positive with out actually doing the work.

So that brings our total numbers back into question as well.

Interesting. Around here you were lucky if you could get tested once, much less twice. Now that they are testing some groups in nursing homes weekly I wonder what they'll do? As far as the 10 unused swabs, that is a mystery. Maybe contaminated before they sent them in?

 

[Daren Todd]

Interesting. Around here you were lucky if you could get tested once, much less twice. Now that they are testing some groups in nursing homes weekly I wonder what they'll do? As far as the 10 unused swabs, that is a mystery. Maybe contaminated before they sent them in?

Some places are issuing two tests. The back of the throat, and a nasal. Also some employers are requiring a negative test before an employee that tests positive can return to work. Especially in certain industries.

It's actually pretty easy to get tested here now. Most doctors offices can do it on demand, and are offering them if your in for another appointment.

Especially with the testing goals the governor has set up.

As far as those swabs testing positive. Yes, they could have been contaminated to begin with. The lab processing the tests could have been skewed in some way. Or a lazy employee rubber stamping them because they are overwhelmed processing them.

My basic point was that the numbers are nowhere near accurate since they are counting test results, not people.

 

[NHSleddog]

Some places are issuing two tests. The back of the throat, and a nasal. Also some employers are requiring a negative test before an employee that tests positive can return to work. Especially in certain industries.

It's actually pretty easy to get tested here now. Most doctors offices can do it on demand, and are offering them if your in for another appointment.

Especially with the testing goals the governor has set up.

As far as those swabs testing positive. Yes, they could have been contaminated to begin with. The lab processing the tests could have been skewed in some way. Or a lazy employee rubber stamping them because they are overwhelmed processing them.

My basic point was that the numbers are nowhere near accurate since they are counting test results, not people.

There is bogus numbers in all directions (all inflated). I just amazes me that people can be fed BS, then you show them it is BS, and they continue to believe the BS and spin spin spin to justify the BS.

And the elephant - "oh, maybe it was a bad sample" ignore all the other evidence of BS. - just tap dances on by.

 

[GeoHorn]

OK.. so “GOOGLE” has been “quoted” about Kansas.

Since when is “GOOGLE” an authority on virus? Or anything else. Google is NOT a primary source..it is a SEARCH ENGINE and can find junk just as easily as fact.

KANSAS is a largely RURAL state where SOCIAL DISTANCING is common by virtue of the largely agricultural economy in that state.

Covid-19 is NOT THE FLU. (But even if it were ...you guys act like you‘d want to GET IT!). Sheesh...

You guys who don’t want to social distance and practice good public health practices and believe in rapid acquisition of “herd” immunity As a solution... should practice what you preach and go expose Yourselves and your Family members and let Darwinism take over.

You should also be sued by those innocent people you infect... IF you survive. Meanwhile, the lack of universal health care means many sick people who lost their jobs due to the MIS-management of this pandemic have no health insurance.

 

[NHSleddog]

OK.. so “GOOGLE” has been “quoted” about Kansas.

Since when is “GOOGLE” an authority on virus? Or anything else. Google is NOT a primary source..it is a SEARCH ENGINE and can find junk just as easily as fact.

KANSAS is a largely RURAL state where SOCIAL DISTANCING is common by virtue of the largely agricultural economy in that state.

Covid-19 is NOT THE FLU. (But even if it were ...you guys act like you‘d want to GET IT!). Sheesh...

You guys who don’t want to social distance and practice good public health practices and believe in rapid acquisition of “herd” immunity As a solution... should practice what you preach and go expose Yourselves and your Family members and let Darwinism take over.

You should also be sued by those innocent people you infect... IF you survive. Meanwhile, the lack of universal health care means many sick people who lost their jobs due to the MIS-management of this pandemic have no health insurance.

And you people that partially shelter and still go out shopping should all be sued next year and the year after as you continue to infect people. Because the handling of this flu will guarantee that it stays here for years.

Don't you get that we have dealt with Corona Virus's FOR CENTURIES? CENTURIES Geo. And thousands of other virus's. This is the first time in history we have said lets try to partially hide from it. It is ridiculous. For a guy that tries to come off as smart, you really miss the mark sometimes.

 

[motionclone]

should practice what you preach and go expose Yourselves and your Family members and let Darwinism take over.

You should also be sued by those innocent people you infect... IF you survive. Meanwhile, the lack of universal health care means many sick people who lost their jobs due to the MIS-management of this pandemic have no health insurance.

So youre wishing ill will and possible death on us and our families because we refuse to be duped like so many others?
You sound like a typical leftist, cant hide your emotion problems or your hatred of other ideas.

 

[NHSleddog]

Unfortunately most people are bad at math and easy to scare with numbers.

 

[Daren Todd]

You should also be sued by those innocent people you infect... IF you survive. Meanwhile, the lack of universal health care means many sick people who lost their jobs due to the MIS-management of this pandemic have no health insurance.

How would you figure out someone is innocent and has the right to sue?

If you get infected then it seems to me like you weren't following the protocols correctly.

Universal health care isn't the reason for why people died. People didn't die from the flu do to lack of universal health care. If someone is sick, they get treated at the hospital whether they can pay or not as it is.

People died from complications from the virus

We have an easier time getting in to see a specialist then they do with the universal health care in Canada. Look up paul shorts thread on here for his experience with it. And how long he had to wait for treatment after his heart condition.

If your claiming loss of jobs due to the pandemic and blaming it on mismanagement, you need to look at the state level. People lost jobs due to social isolation requirements. It's hard to shop at a store, eat out, hang at a bar, cinema, ect...... if your stuck at home to "SLOW" the spread of the virus. I say slow, because it's here and we gotta deal with it. So the smaller companies shut down and couldn't whether the storm. Larger companies took the opportunity to close down under performing locations.

It's not the governments fault the virus is here. Due to a global economy, people and parts are in china one day, the US and Canada the next. We could have gone all Gestapo, canceled flights, locked down the boarders. And it still could come in on a cargo shipment, or a package, Because we can not shut everything down. Because every one in this country would rebel over it, doesn't matter which party your affiliated with.

We have no choice but to open up our economy again. If not it would completely bankrupt the whole country. Some areas shut down too early. Your seeing those results now.

Some states are threatening to close back down. The people and local governments are telling the governors to kiss off, we can't continue on like this and be able to feed our families and stay in buisiness.

Pandora already escaped that box, and we can't put it back in. So bow we just gotta suck it up and deal with it.

 

[NHSleddog]

.....Universal health care isn't the reason for why people died. People didn't die from the flu do to lack of universal health care. If someone is sick, they get treated at the hospital whether they can pay or not as it is.....

So true. All the universal healthcare scare tactics are just that.

This my vary by state however in our state - go to the hospital with a broken arm, they will ask you for your information and insurance info.

Tell them,
A. I have NO insurance.
B. I have NO intention to pay in any manner.
C. I will probably sue you for malpractice at the first chance I get.

They will say,

"This way for an X-Ray sir".

I am surrounded by healthcare professionals. Nobody is refused healthcare in our state. My aunt (a nurse in TX) says nobody there is refused healthcare, illegal or not.

Geo likes to make stuff up.

 

[Daren Todd]

So true. All the universal healthcare scare tactics are just that.

This my vary by state however in our state - go to the hospital with a broken arm, they will ask you for your information and insurance info.

Tell them,
A. I have NO insurance.
B. I have NO intention to pay in any manner.
C. I will probably sue you for malpractice at the first chance I get.

They will say,

"This way for an X-Ray sir".

I am surrounded by healthcare professionals. Nobody is refused healthcare in our state. My aunt (a nurse in TX) says nobody there is refused healthcare, illegal or not.

Geo likes to make stuff up.

Same here, they would be drawn and quartered, as well as licenses being reviewed.

They can't refuse service. Now if it's considered an elective surgery, that's different.

If they could refuse service, mom would be buried right now instead of hanging with the grandkids. They would have told her well mam, since you can't pay, and no insurance, you have 6 months to live.

Instead she received treatments totalling $1.2 million over the course of a year. Thankfully disability kicked in after some serious fighting, and picked up all but $1,500.

 

[NHSleddog]

...sick people who lost their jobs due to the MIS-management of this pandemic have no health insurance.

Treating a flu pandemic has NEVER been handled this way in HISTORY Geo.
They are literally making it up as they go along.
You HAVE to expect a lot of mismanagement.
And health insurance has NOTHING to do with covid or treatment for it. Could you be honest for even a second or is the pull to the narrative that strong?