COVID-19 Stuff

[Daren Todd]

All I know is, the cases are skyrocketing in states that relaxed mitigation procedures (masks and social distancing) and allowed places like bars to open back up... and BANG off it went. People are their own worst enemies.

Covid never vanished, it was always out there waiting and from what I see, it's doing a bang up job of infecting again. Read California had 7500 new cases yesterday and Florida was close behind. My wife made a comment to the effect that it's 'natural selection'. I don't want to be 'selected' and will continue to do just as I always have.

Interestingly, I read that younger folks are now getting infected and getting very sick as well. Maybe the virus has mutated (like the common flu does) and is now impacting the young and old.

Places like Oklahoma and North and South Carolina that were basically virus free are now in the thick of it as well as Arizona.

I keep thinking the new 'normal' will be masks and social distancing whether people like it or not. In fact, it (masks) may become mandatory, just like wearing a seat belt when driving and non compliance may be a criminal offense. One never knows. I grew up before seat belts were mandatory, heck my first cars didn't even have them. Today, you can get a ticket for not wearing one. Same could easily apply to masks.

No matter how you slice it, sure don't look good for Covid infections today.

With my wife and I, so far so good but then again we are careful and sure don't socialize, go to bars or congregate with others.

Oklahoma wasn't "basically"virus free. They had higher numbers then arkansas from the get go and were in the top 25 of infection rates.

They had projections from the beginning that states like Arkansas, Oklahoma, the Carolinas, and such, that with social distancing, and mitigation, they wouldn't peak until June or july and as far out as August. That's what you are seeing now.

Those states shut down way too early. So the numbers looked great up front. Now that the damage has been done to the economy, they can't afford not to open things back up. So now you have the higher infections with a society that says "screw it!!!!" I wanna get back on with my life. If I get sick, I get sick.

The younger crowd getting effected now. Well they are also the "Party crowd". There is only so much a bar owner can do. With a liquor license that costs $500k plus. Well, they gotta sell the booze, or lose everything. Just like the rest of the businesses out there. And there is only so much they can do about social distancing and mitigation. Do you expect them to toss out all their clientele???

So, life goes on and we deal with the consequences.

 

[SidecarFlip]

So, life goes on and we deal with the consequences.

In my case, I prefer not to if I can help it so I continue to do what (we) have been doing right along. It's interesting that the younger blacks are being infected disproportionately as well. I equate that tho the recent (and ongoing protests). No masks there or just a few and social distancing, not at all.

The country cannot afford economically, another lockdown, I think we can all agree on that however, I do see mask wearing in public becoming mandatory. People say no way but I remind them that seatbelts became mandatory (a law). My first car didn't even have them.

Bottom line is, the government in their infinite wisdom about protecting the citizens from themselves will enact regulations to mandate masks and you will comply or face the consequences, just like seatbelts and more recently texting while driving.

Too many laws today but if people used their heads for something other than spacing their ears apart, 95% of the laws we have on the books today would be frivolous and never enacted.

Confirmed cases are skyrocketing and the government will do something at some point in the very near future and like any mandate, it won't be accepted well, but like any mandate, good or bad, it will require compliance or you will face the consequences. How it plays.

Do I want to see that come to fruition, not really, but I see that coming.

 

[NHSleddog]

That cartoon is silly in the current conversation for more than the obvious reasons. No mask would be able to prevent the passage of a single virus. A virus is a little parcel of RNA and a lipid coat, in this case with spikes on it. Sub micron in size. I assume this is the scale being referred to by the cartoonist with his chainlink
fence.
However viruses are in real life found in droplets and aerosols exhaled from the person that is hosting them, and these are much bigger and can be caught by mask material. You can actually see droplets in the air when someone sneezes. The most effective inhibition of spread of the virus is found when both infected and uninfected people (everyone) wears masks. The chainlink fence would keep many dogs in or out.

And again, scale and math are hard to understand for a lot of people.

A t-shirt over you face (an approved face covering) has giant holes in it if you look really close. A bandana is a very porous material. Don't get me started on the crochet masks (that are also acceptable). They will also hold that same aerosol/moisture for hours, making the homemade and "re-usable" masks a joke if it isn't washed between EVERY use.

ANY mask that isn't fitted allows HUGE particles to ingress/egress. So are you talking about fitted masks? Will flip shoot someone for not wearing the "right kind" of mask now?

Why not have us all take our temperature before we leave the house and immediately call 911 if we register over this new 99.5 fever value? That would save lives wouldn't it?

We seem very selective about the lives that need to be saved right now. Do the lives that are being taken due to the economy matter?

 

[Tornado]

All I know is, the cases are skyrocketing in states that relaxed mitigation procedures (masks and social distancing) and allowed places like bars to open back up... and BANG off it went. People are their own worst enemies.

This was always going to happen when we finally opened back up. The only places that are currently declining in infection rate numbers are places that were hit pretty hard early on like New York City. Do you know why it is declining there though? Because the virus is hitting a lot of dead end hosts now.

The only way a people get over a viral infection is through immunity. You can not stay locked down forever. You cant just force all bars to go out of business, all barber shops to go out of business.

I just got my hair cut yesterday and was talking to the owner of the business, who always cuts my hair. She is a young woman, in her 30's. She has 4 kids at home. She is one of those I was thinking about when I said I mentioned folks sitting on the edge of economic ruin thanks to this virus. She was forced to close, cancel all appointments for many weeks. Obviously she made zero income during this time, and all 4 of her kids were required to be home schooled all of a sudden. It was a huge burden, and the whole time she was being eat up with anxiety. I put myself in her shoes and just feel angry. I gave her a large tip for cutting my hair, and I hope others will be doing the same to help her and the man others devastated by the forced government mandates to shutter their business.

Despite the infection rates increasing, I still support Florida reopening and moving forward. My wife, who is on the front lines, and dealing with it all first hand, she also supports reopening and moving forward. Most people do support moving forward. As I've said before, I think moving forward is also the fastest way to get over this mess. Sitting closed down for months and months and months only destroys the economy. As soon as you reopen, whether today or 6 months from now, the virus is going to be waiting. Folks who advocate that we shouldn't reopen really lack perspective I feel, and when I have probed the few folks who feel that way I often feel their perspective is one that is simply based in fear, not in reason.

 

[Daren Todd]

In my case, I prefer not to if I can help it so I continue to do what (we) have been doing right along. It's interesting that the younger blacks are being infected disproportionately as well. I equate that tho the recent (and ongoing protests). No masks there or just a few and social distancing, not at all.

The country cannot afford economically, another lockdown, I think we can all agree on that however, I do see mask wearing in public becoming mandatory. People say no way but I remind them that seatbelts became mandatory (a law). My first car didn't even have them.

Bottom line is, the government in their infinite wisdom about protecting the citizens from themselves will enact regulations to mandate masks and you will comply or face the consequences, just like seatbelts and more recently texting while driving.

Too many laws today but if people used their heads for something other than spacing their ears apart, 95% of the laws we have on the books today would be frivolous and never enacted.

Confirmed cases are skyrocketing and the government will do something at some point in the very near future and like any mandate, it won't be accepted well, but like any mandate, good or bad, it will require compliance or you will face the consequences. How it plays.

Do I want to see that come to fruition, not really, but I see that coming.

Some of the numbers we are seeing now are probably from the protests as well. Even though the news has been quiet on that front with the numbers reported daily. After witnessing a couple of the protests locally, I can understand it. People not wearing masks properly. Tempers start flairing, then the masks are down, yelling and screaming and spit flying. Large groups of people packed together as well. No social distancing...... the occasional fight....

It's not a good climate to slow the spread.

You also usually have large family groups, so figure in large extended family and friend gatherings over the holiday weekend, plus this upcoming one.

 

[D2Cat]

This is a comment from someone from Texas on a Cattle forum. He makes a very interesting point.

"What I can’t wrap my head around we lost 10k Texans in 2018 to the flu and we didn’t even blip the media. We have lost 2200 to Covid and shutdown the state. The difference is election year.
https://www.expressnews.com/news/local/ ... 028706.php

The mind blogging thing is people willing giving up freedom to executive directives. You can riot, loot, buy liquor but can’t go to church or graduation. What is wrong with that picture?"

 

[SidecarFlip]

No one said there was equality in any of the EO's that I saw anywhere.

The times we live in are radically different than even 5 years ago. Today, you fart crossways and the media gets wind (pun intended) of it and all of a sudden you become a criminal or a saint, depending on how the media spins it.

Kind of like 'Saint George Floyd'. The guy was a career criminal. a doper and wife beater with much time in the joint but the media blew him up as saintly instead of the dirt bag he was. Same deal with the one in Atlanta and then of course comes the riots and the burning and all that bs.

I see today is the LAST DAY bars in Florida and Texas will be open, I suspect for a long, long time, and there is a bill working it's way through the Florida Senate to make masks MANDATORY with a civil penalty for non compliance. I suspect it will pass and I also suspect other states will follow suit.

Arrogant people let it get out of hand again. Now they will pay the price for their stupidity.

I have a bad feeling that it won't matter much. The horse is out of the barn now.

'Like' it or not, it's they way it will play.

 

[sheepfarmer]

The crooks know no bounds. In this case cheating the covid positive test results, calling infected patients negative, or manipulating how the test is done so it comes out negative, so the hospital can get rid of a patient either to home or to a care facility where they can infect others, is pretty scummy in my book.

Nurses' Lawsuit Claims 'Fabricated' COVID-19 Tests at Georgia Hospital

A group of nurses at Landmark hospital have accused their CEO of a COVID-19 cover-up involving the improper collection of test samples to reduce positive tests of the virus and downplay its spread.

www.medscape.com

 

[Tornado]

No one said there was equality in any of the EO's that I saw anywhere.

The times we live in are radically different than even 5 years ago. Today, you fart crossways and the media gets wind (pun intended) of it and all of a sudden you become a criminal or a saint, depending on how the media spins it.

Kind of like 'Saint George Floyd'. The guy was a career criminal. a doper and wife beater with much time in the joint but the media blew him up as saintly instead of the dirt bag he was. Same deal with the one in Atlanta and then of course comes the riots and the burning and all that bs.

I see today is the LAST DAY bars in Florida and Texas will be open, I suspect for a long, long time, and there is a bill working it's way through the Florida Senate to make masks MANDATORY with a civil penalty for non compliance. I suspect it will pass and I also suspect other states will follow suit.

Arrogant people let it get out of hand again. Now they will pay the price for their stupidity.

I have a bad feeling that it won't matter much. The horse is out of the barn now.

'Like' it or not, it's they way it will play.

Eh, im here in florida. Vast majority of folks here are not wearing a mask right now. Ive still never worn a mask when out in public. Many of the sherriffs here are also saying they will not enforce mask mandates. I do have to wear a mask some on my job when working with the public, but outside of that we arent wearing masks all day at work in the office.

The vast majority of people here have started to just tune the news out at this point and are just going on with life. I think it wont be long we will return to normal. I disagree with you that this will be a new normal. I think as soon as the story dies in the media, those in charge will relax and society will quickly tune out covid 19 and things will surge quickly back to normal. In places like where I live here its already basically back to normal.

 

[Daren Todd]

That's good to know. Wife and I

Eh, im here in florida. Vast majority of folks here are not wearing a mask right now. Ive still never worn a mask when out in public. Many of the sherriffs here are also saying they will not enforce mask mandates. I do have to wear a mask some on my job when working with the public, but outside of that we arent wearing masks all day at work in the office.

The vast majority of people here have started to just tune the news out at this point and are just going on with life. I think it wont be long we will return to normal. I disagree with you that this will be a new normal. I think as soon as the story dies in the media, those in charge will relax and society will quickly tune out covid 19 and things will surge quickly back to normal. In places like where I live here its already basically back to normal.

That's good to know. Wife and I were discussing what we want to do with our stimulus money. So I got on Air b&b and booked a condo down in the keys for a week. It's one of her dream spots to visit. So we'll be down there in a few weeks for her birthday.

We are almost back to buisiness as usual here as well. Most of the restaurants aren't enforcing masks to enter. If people are wearing a mask to enter the restaurant where the staff isn't even wearing a mask, it comes off pretty quit.

We've given up on watching the national news. Only the local news to see what's going on around us. Way too much doom and gloom.

Interstates reprogrammed there traffic signs. They no longer have Covid messages on them. Governor stated that we will not shut down the economy again as well.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Guess we will see how it plays out. Could be good, could be bad. I'll do what I need to do and you do what you feel you need to do.

So tell me what is the consensus of your governor closing the bars today?

 

[Tornado]

That's good to know. Wife and I


That's good to know. Wife and I were discussing what we want to do with our stimulus money. So I got on Air b&b and booked a condo down in the keys for a week. It's one of her dream spots to visit. So we'll be down there in a few weeks for her birthday.

We are almost back to buisiness as usual here as well. Most of the restaurants aren't enforcing masks to enter. If people are wearing a mask to enter the restaurant where the staff isn't even wearing a mask, it comes off pretty quit.

We've given up on watching the national news. Only the local news to see what's going on around us. Way too much doom and gloom.

Interstates reprogrammed there traffic signs. They no longer have Covid messages on them. Governor stated that we will not shut down the economy again as well.

Hey Daren. If youve never been to the keys it can be an interesting trip. Just be aware that Monroe county down there has mandated mask use pretty heavy in the keys Ive been reading. I also dont know of the status of the various boat tours and such. I would highly recommend if you go to the keys for you and your wife to try and book a snorkeling tour out to snorkle around the reef's. If you or your wife have never been on boats or out on the water a lot you will find it enjoyable I think. Often times the dolphins will swim along side the boats going in and out and its a neat experience for those who havent been out like that before. Another fun trip would be the trip out to Fort Jefferson at the Dry Tortugas national park - You can take a boat there or they offer plane rides to the fort. The planes take off and land on the water. Just some ideas - Im sure if yall are planning a trip youre already aware of these things but I just wanted to recommend both.

The only other thing I can say about Key West in particular is to make sure you dont give up your parking spot! Parking down there is a nightmare. Most people park at their BnB and rent bikes or scooters to get around and not use their car - or you can walk of course. Enjoy the trip The drive is pretty interesting once you get down past miami and start hitting all the bridges.

 

[SidecarFlip]

I was born in Key West.

 

[Tornado]

Guess we will see how it plays out. Could be good, could be bad. I'll do what I need to do and you do what you feel you need to do.

So tell me what is the consensus of your governor closing the bars today?

Hey sidecar, The consensus amongs all my work colleagues today was basically what I expressed above "Its time to just move on" Many Folks are growing tired of the covid thing. My wife likely has it right now. She got retested today but has been home with minor symptoms. Being ADON of a skilled nursing facility though they take it serious there due to their number of vulnerable patients. I also suspect I may possibly have it as well now as I type this. Ive had a little sore throat the last 2 days. Very minor though. Id rather just have it at this point and get the antibodies so I can be immune honestly.

If you feel you and your wife should be safe then I encourage you to do that. I agree everyone has to make their own decision and live with the consequence. My wife and I are both in our 30's. We are healthy. We are of the mind that we arent going to let covid-19 dominate our life - especially considering that we know its not a serious virus for the vast majority of people. Its no worse than the flu for over 90% of people. Given this, we have no fear at all of this thing. I would just say however that my wife does take her job very seriously as an administrative nurse at a skilled nursing facility - she believes in keeping those residents safe. She has written up several nurses already who have been warned on mask usage in the building, and then been caught with it around their neck. For ourselves however in our own personal life, we have chosen however to lie life as normal.

 

[sheepfarmer]

And again, scale and math are hard to understand for a lot of people.

A t-shirt over you face (an approved face covering) has giant holes in it if you look really close. A bandana is a very porous material. Don't get me started on the crochet masks (that are also acceptable). They will also hold that same aerosol/moisture for hours, making the homemade and "re-usable" masks a joke if it isn't washed between EVERY use.

ANY mask that isn't fitted allows HUGE particles to ingress/egress. So are you talking about fitted masks? Will flip shoot someone for not wearing the "right kind" of mask now?

Why not have us all take our temperature before we leave the house and immediately call 911 if we register over this new 99.5 fever value? That would save lives wouldn't it?

We seem very selective about the lives that need to be saved right now. Do the lives that are being taken due to the economy matter?

I can't tell if your comment about scale and math meant you'd like more information? Re: the masks you have to use some common sense . Approved by whom? Early on the CDC said multiple layers of higher quality fabrics were better. If you hold a fabric up to the light and you can see holes in it, it is not very good for this purpose. The t shirt idea was mentioned in the beginning as something you could do in a pinch, I think you had to use multiple layers. And yes you should wash them every time you use them.
As far as whose lives are being saved, the mask thing is to slow community spread. The virus is now spreading more among younger people, in this article about Arizona the mean age of covid death dropped from 78 in April to 69 in June. The relevant numbers are about halfway down.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/heal...92a5a8-b658-11ea-aca5-ebb63d27e1ff_story.html

I hear your anger about the economy destroying lives. It chaps my hide when I see people heedlessly start up hotspots at bars in Michigan. We had a terrible outbreak in the Detroit area due to the airport there having to take continuing flights from China as the country was shutting down. There were a lot of deaths and misery not more than 75 miles from me. It has taken almost 3 months of lockdown to control it. But I know too many people whose businesses are barely still alive as we open up. A lot of it is not what the state government did exactly, but how they did it. It was high handed, draconian, and no room for variation. A beauty salon that had 2 chairs in 2 separate rooms and could have opened weeks ago had to abide by rules made for the outfits that have 10 chairs in the same room. But maybe that was the best they could do. It has brought down the statistics, and this week's upticks in case numbers are predominantly from young people at a bar in East Lansing, and from a couple of farms with groups of migrant workers. Even though new standards in their housing and sanitation were enacted, both the workers and the barflies were examples of lack of social distancing.

Michigan coronavirus dashboard: cases, hospitalizations and deaths | Bridge Michigan

www.bridgemi.com

 

[Daren Todd]

Hey sidecar, The consensus amongs all my work colleagues today was basically what I expressed above "Its time to just move on" Many Folks are growing tired of the covid thing. My wife likely has it right now. She got retested today but has been home with minor symptoms. Being ADON of a skilled nursing facility though they take it serious there due to their number of vulnerable patients. I also suspect I may possibly have it as well now as I type this. Ive had a little sore throat the last 2 days. Very minor though. Id rather just have it at this point and get the antibodies so I can be immune honestly.

If you feel you and your wife should be safe then I encourage you to do that. I agree everyone has to make their own decision and live with the consequence. My wife and I are both in our 30's. We are healthy. We are of the mind that we arent going to let covid-19 dominate our life - especially considering that we know its not a serious virus for the vast majority of people. Its no worse than the flu for over 90% of people. Given this, we have no fear at all of this thing. I would just say however that my wife does take her job very seriously as an administrative nurse at a skilled nursing facility - she believes in keeping those residents safe. She has written up several nurses already who have been warned on mask usage in the building, and then been caught with it around their neck. For ourselves however in our own personal life, we have chosen however to lie life as normal.

My wife is a department head at a long term care and rehab facility so we have been taking precautions. Using a common sense approach to it as well. Keeping our distance from people, avoiding large crowds and such. Mask wearing only as required though. Our real entertainment though is going out for dinner once a week and usually breakfast at our favorite diner.

Wife's facility was tested last week. So far almost 100 tests came back negative including my wife test. They are still waiting on the rest of the results which should be in by monday.

 

[lugbolt]

well since I don't live far from Daren, and he'll know this area, the GF and I took a break from work and we ran up to mountain view for the weekend. We have a friend who owns a bunch of rentals and one was available, top of the hill overlooking her folks' property that lies on both sides of the creek. Beautiful up here. The sun sets right in front of the cabin, over the hilltops of the gently rolling Ozarks. The point was to escape people for a while. So we decided to get up early this morning and run down to the creek and go fishing. Before daylight but just enough light to see where we were walking. After dodging a couple rattlesnakes and making it down the 3 mile trail we got where we wanted to go, to find 14 tent campers alongside the creek bank (this is public property but we have to pass this area to get to her land). I couldn't believe it. I mean this is pretty rugged area we're talking about. Bear country. Rattlesnake heaven. Social distancing? Yeah right. Last night we went to the courthouse square to listen & watch some live folk music, and you'd think that since the little town has had an outbreak of the rona in the last week, it wouldn't be real busy. WRONG!! I bet there were 600-700 people lining the square, in chairs, along the rock border, even sitting on the chigger-infested ground. There's a wal-mart just up the street, and while I was out I decided to check out how many were there by driving through the parking lot. There might have been 50 parking spots left, total. That's just Friday night. Saturday is when all the stuff happens here, so it will be worse tonight. I am going back to reality here in a little while though, nobody to feed the cat while I'm gone so I need to head back & make sure he ain't tore the house up yet, mow the grass, fix the car, and a bunch of other stuff I've put off for 4 days.

We don't have a distancing problem, we have an overpopulation problem, IMO.

Her and I have been up here for 4 days and she and her friends were out together for the first couple days while me and my friends were living the country life, real country, we went to a part of the forest that daylight is PUMPED into (seriously in the middle of the day it's dark) and we camped. Nothing with us but a tent. we made spears out of rocks and sticks if that tells you anything. My friend killed a piglet right off the bat and we had that and a couple small smallmouth bass I got out of the creek for our meals and drank creek water. Sure makes you appreciate having a roof over your head, if you know what I'm saying. It was myself and him, nobody else heard/smelled/seen for 2 1/2 days. Gets lonely out there but the bears & lions kept us company at night. I had to chase a bear off on Thursday before daylight; I reckon he wanted some of the piglet that was left over. Anyway, as we were carrying what little we bought with us back to the truck and cleaning our "camp" up, I heard an ATV coming down the holler; pretty soon off in the distance, 4 more of them are spotted. It is my opinion that there is no place you can go to escape. There are so many people that if the fit was to hit the shan, there's too many people for nature to keep supplied with enough food to feed us all, so that leaves a lot of us in a bad situation. That outta make people think a little, I know I do.

Rona's here to stay just like Flu. We can't get rid of it (yet) and like most virus, you never fully eradicate it, only treat it and/or develop a vaccine that helps our bodies fight it off when we do get it. It ain't going nowhere. I haven't gotten it (yet-that I know of), but then again the job that I do entails working on stuff in the back corner of a big shop; it's very rare that I am around anyone. Most of my groceries are delivered to the house anyway since I work almost 14 hours between two jobs I don't have a lot of time for shopping. I just compile a list and they bring it to me, cost me about $5 extra. Big deal. But when I go "out" somewhere (like the past few days) and see hundreds and hundreds of people stacked into very small places, it makes me wonder how on earth we ain't all got something. It also shows how vulnerable humanity as we know it really is.

 

[D2Cat]

Lugbolt, I hear what you are saying, but I don't think it's because there are too many people (yet). It's because folks have too much discretionary income and don't know how to manage it. A spoiled society! Too easy to get a loan for anything.

I see on KC TV stations there are handouts for food (for folks without work from the virus shutdown). There are lines of cars zig zaging through a parking lot. Nearly all the cars/trucks are nice, new shinny vehicles. Not old junker/clunkers, and they don't have food? But they have a TV that tells them where to go to get free food!

If one is a first time home buyer and don't have enough money for the down payment, you can get another loan for the down payment (from the same place!)! How does that make sense?

A couple of generations ago people had to work all day, every day to provide a basic existence. There wasn't money for four wheelers, tents or time off! Yep, we're just spoiled!

 

[ipz2222]

Lugbolt, I hear what you are saying, but I don't think it's because there are too many people (yet). It's because folks have too much discretionary income and don't know how to manage it. A spoiled society! Too easy to get a loan for anything.

I see on KC TV stations there are handouts for food (for folks without work from the virus shutdown). There are lines of cars zig zaging through a parking lot. Nearly all the cars/trucks are nice, new shinny vehicles. Not old junker/clunkers, and they don't have food? But they have a TV that tells them where to go to get free food!

If one is a first time home buyer and don't have enough money for the down payment, you can get another loan for the down payment (from the same place!)! How does that make sense?

A couple of generations ago people had to work all day, every day to provide a basic existence. There wasn't money for four wheelers, tents or time off! Yep, we're just spoiled!

 

[ipz2222]

The thing that I don't hear much about is the tax money. Counties and states depend on tax money for their daily operations. If the business are not doing business and collecting taxes, how is the local and state governments going to deal with 50% less income. Are all our property, sales, business,insurance, tax etc going to go up????