Pond help please

[bucktail]

At the Antique Caterpillar Owners Club someone would organize a "Spring Fling" each year. They'd have a project and invite folks for a 3 day weekend of working their machine and building something. They'd build ponds, clean fields, anything just playing. But they got a lot done, and there was always some specialist who knew exactly how something should be done. Folks would load up their machinery and haul it 10 hours, or so, for the event. Many put up tents, some stayed in nearby towns. It became a big event.

You could organize something on a small scale by asking folks on here that want to have fun, build something, socialize. Get 4-5 guys who enjoy such stuff and have some fun. Surely there are guy on here within 75-100 miles of you! I go farther then that to buy a tractor.

You cleanup project shouldn't really cost much. The cost of some fuel and some bentonite, and maybe some corner post.

Not sure hobbyists are going to want to take their antique equipment out to dig around in an open cesspool, but I've been wrong before. My brother used to have his drain field daylighted out a sidehill just above a hayfield (not to code). The windrows below it were always noticeably thicker.

 

[Fordtech86]

I've been thinking the same thing... What the Hell is an oxidization Pond???
I was a Licensed Home Inspector and have never seen anything like that and I've seen some nightmares on the waste disposal systems side. Nothing like that in the northeast, I hope. But if it works where you'll are its all good.

Im sure you know that its not just raw sewage straight from the house to the ground. There is a septic tank at the house. That has an overflow pipe in it that goes into another tank. Second tank has a sump pump in it that pumps the water out to the pond.

 

[D2Cat]

Bucktail, I gave the example of guys getting together to socialize meeting folks they met on the internet, work on a project, use their reworked antique equipment.

I didn't mean to imply those guys would use their antique equipment in a sewage lagoon. Only to give an example of folks do enjoy getting together, working, problem solving and using equipment. If he wasn't 11 hours from me it's the kind of project I volunteer for all the time!

 

[RCW]

Ford - -

I'm staying away from the design for now. Let's figure out how to fix what you have, which is where D2Cat is coming from.

By the looks of you pics, the overgrowth has caused the leaks. That was my first thought when you said overgrown.

Your tractor does have a 'hoe, so I would do what 'Cat suggested: clean it up at the surface with a 'rake, then maybe pull some back toward you with backhoe, the tractor perpendicular with the lagoon edge. I would concentrate on the stumps and heavier stuff, but not to the point where it's all ripped apart....need to be a little gentle and use some discretion so the pond isn't all torn apart...if that makes sense. I'll get to it in a bit, but there might be block or timber sidewalls to your pond, so you don't want to tear them out.

Now - the design. A 100 years ago, I was that "County Guy" that 'Cat mentioned that went to someone's yard to help fix a sewage system. That was in New York - - so nothing I know applies, but hope I can still help.

Guessing you have no "perc," or percolation. Not uncommon where you live I bet. Your State has regulations for Oxidation Ponds. It's long, but if you search the PDF for Ponds you will find some of the specifications:

http://ldh.la.gov/assets/oph/Center-EH/sanitarian/onsitewastewater/StudyMaterialOSWWInstWk.pdf

The regs say 400 square feet of pond for up to 400 gallons/day, if the pond has straight sides with treated lumber or concrete blocks.

Your house is less than 400 gpd.

However with sloped sides and an earthen levees, although not encouraged, requires 625 sqft. of pond area. Hard to tell if yours is this design because it's obviously older. Betting it is this design though.

I didn't find the "Figures" referenced in the Code, but bet I could with some more research.

It's obvious it's not supposed to be water-tight to me, but it is supposed to retain wastewater for a sufficient period of time to allow treatment. I'm betting yours has simply "grown-in" and gotten smaller, and much more shallow than the code calls for.

But again, since I didn't see the Figures for pond design, I don't know if there's some kind of impermeable layer in it's construction.

I think the inlet/outlet piping looks about per code. The fencing is also required per code...pretty specific.

Be happy to help further if needed.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

If he wasn't 11 hours from me it's the kind of project I volunteer for all the time!

I can swing by your place on the way down and pick you up!
Sounds like a hoot of a time!

2 years ago me and three other guys moved my septic tank, Yea that was a project!

 

[Fordtech86]

Ford - -

I'm staying away from the design for now. Let's figure out how to fix what you have, which is where D2Cat is coming from.

By the looks of you pics, the overgrowth has caused the leaks. That was my first thought when you said overgrown.

Your tractor does have a 'hoe, so I would do what 'Cat suggested: clean it up at the surface with a 'rake, then maybe pull some back toward you with backhoe, the tractor perpendicular with the lagoon edge. I would concentrate on the stumps and heavier stuff, but not to the point where it's all ripped apart....need to be a little gentle and use some discretion so the pond isn't all torn apart...if that makes sense. I'll get to it in a bit, but there might be block or timber sidewalls to your pond, so you don't want to tear them out.

Now - the design. A 100 years ago, I was that "County Guy" that 'Cat mentioned that went to someone's yard to help fix a sewage system. That was in New York - - so nothing I know applies, but hope I can still help.

Guessing you have no "perc," or percolation. Not uncommon where you live I bet. Your State has regulations for Oxidation Ponds. It's long, but if you search the PDF for Ponds you will find some of the specifications:

http://ldh.la.gov/assets/oph/Center-EH/sanitarian/onsitewastewater/StudyMaterialOSWWInstWk.pdf

The regs say 400 square feet of pond for up to 400 gallons/day, if the pond has straight sides with treated lumber or concrete blocks.

Your house is less than 400 gpd.

However with sloped sides and an earthen levees, although not encouraged, requires 625 sqft. of pond area. Hard to tell if yours is this design because it's obviously older. Betting it is this design though.

I didn't find the "Figures" referenced in the Code, but bet I could with some more research.

It's obvious it's not supposed to be water-tight to me, be it is supposed to retain wastewater for a sufficient period of time to allow treatment. I'm betting yours has simply "grown-in" and gotten smaller, and much more shallow than the code calls for.

But again, since I didn't see the Figures for pond design, I don't know if there's some kind of impermeable layer in it's construction.

I think the inlet/outlet piping looks about per code. The fencing is also required per code...pretty specific.

Be happy to help further if needed.

RCW, dang! Lol, didn’t mean to turn this into a research project for you . But seriously I do truly appreciate all the info!

I am anything but an expert in this field, and this type of system is new to me since I am not from this area. At the risk of sounding like an idiot, I think this system is used here because the water table is so high (same reason we don’t have underground graves?). When we were house shopping every house we looked at either had a treatment system or the oxidation pond like we have.

Back to the repair, I knew I would have to do something with the overgrowth at some point so thats when I started spraying the brush killer (you couldn’t even see water through all the brush and cat tails). Again I am pretty ignorant to this whole thing, but in the picture with the inlet (that you can’t see) there is an “island” built up in the middle. My thinking is its just from the water coming out of the pipe from the pump and just making a deep hole right there.

After I see how deep it really is where the inlet comes in, my thought was pulling that “island” back down into it (if it really is a deep hole) and obviously pulling back from the sides where it is low and leaking.

Also will be adding the bentonite to the walls.

Someday when it stops raining, I will get to this project!

And next time I will just say my pond is leaking, sewage disposal might be like politics and religion

 

[Fordtech86]

I can swing by your place on the way down and pick you up!
Sounds like a hoot of a time! :
2 years ago me and three other guys moved my septic tank, Yea that was a project!

Come on!. Its crawfish season and it was 82 today. Right now we would just be drinking beer and eating crawfish though

Ground is so saturated.

 

[RCW]

If he wasn't 11 hours from me it's the kind of project I volunteer for all the time!

I can swing by your place on the way down and pick you up!
Sounds like a hoot of a time!

Upstate New York is out of your way, but I'd be willing to help too!

I'm an old farm boy. Lotta places I've never been...Ford lives in one of them...hell, everybody I know here lives in one of them.....

Heck, maybe they still have crawfish?!?!?

 

[Fordtech86]

Upstate New York is out of your way, but I'd be willing to help too!

I'm an old farm boy. Lotta places I've never been...Ford lives in one of them...hell, everybody I know here lives in one of them.....

Heck, maybe they still have crawfish?!?!?

Start planning and packing boys!

We will have crawfish til late May/early June. It may even dry up by then!

 

[RCW]

At the risk of sounding like an idiot, I think this system is used here because the water table is so high (same reason we don***8217;t have underground graves?). When we were house shopping every house we looked at either had a treatment system or the oxidation pond like we have.

Back to the repair, I knew I would have to do something with the overgrowth at some point so thats when I started spraying the brush killer (you couldn***8217;t even see water through all the brush and cat tails). Again I am pretty ignorant to this whole thing, but in the picture with the inlet (that you can***8217;t see) there is an ***8220;island***8221; built up in the middle. My thinking is its just from the water coming out of the pipe from the pump and just making a deep hole right there.

After I see how deep it really is where the inlet comes in, my thought was pulling that ***8220;island***8221; back down into it (if it really is a deep hole) and obviously pulling back from the sides where it is low and leaking.

Also will be adding the bentonite to the walls.

Ford --

Yes, you have that system because the water table is very high. Some states deal with that differently, but the OxPond is part of your state's code. The intent is the Ox Pond allows sun and biological action to treat the wastewater.

Before you do anything, try to figure out how these things are supposed to be built. The "Figures" I didn't find before will help.

I dealt with a couple big industrial lagoons here. Not directly as a regulatory person, but I knew more/less how they worked. They're not something allowed for residential systems here, but they are obviously usable there.

That "island" is probably due to lack of maintenance. The island doesn't belong there; just an accumulation over years. Like 'Cat said - make it deeper.

I think it really amounts to some dredging, and it's not a lot required to get 625 sqft. But again, trying to figure out what example you're chasing is a good start.

After looking at the regulation....As far as Bentonite....I would look at the "Figures" first.....may not be what you're after...

Again, any help I can provide. Guessing Wolfman or 'Cat won't pick me up for a trip..

 

[Fordtech86]

Ford --

Yes, you have that system because the water table is very high. Some states deal with that differently, but the OxPond is part of your state's code. The intent is the Ox Pond allows sun and biological action to treat the wastewater.

Before you do anything, try to figure out how these things are supposed to be built. The "Figures" I didn't find before will help.

I dealt with a couple big industrial lagoons here. Not directly as a regulatory person, but I knew more/less how they worked. They're not something allowed for residential systems here, but they are obviously usable there.

That "island" is probably due to lack of maintenance. The island doesn't belong there; just an accumulation over years. Like 'Cat said - make it deeper.

I think it really amounts to some dredging, and it's not a lot required to get 625 sqft. But again, trying to figure out what example you're chasing is a good start.

After looking at the regulation....As far as Bentonite....I would look at the "Figures" first.....may not be what you're after...

Again, any help I can provide. Guessing Wolfman or 'Cat won't pick me up for a trip..

Thank you RCW! I posted this now to start planning how to fix this and y’all been awesome as always! And Im glad I asked before I just dug in.

 

[RCW]

Ford --

The "Figures" I didn't find before will help.

Ford - I'll see if I can find those in the next couple days.

 

[Fordtech86]

Ford - I'll see if I can find those in the next couple days.

You might actually know more about the code then whoever did the inspection before the sale here! The issues we had pre sale with the pond was tree growth, not the brush so much, the fence, which there was none (why it has the fence it does) and it needed a “berm” which you can kind of see.

I guess you only buy your first house once

 

[wgator]

Ford - I'll see if I can find those in the next couple days.

Is this what you are looking for? The following is a link to Louisiana Administrative Code Title 51 Part XIII. Sewage Disposal which covers the oxidation pond: http://www.ldh.la.gov/assets/oph/Center-EH/sanitarian/onsitewastewater/7091.pdf

 

[D2Cat]

What Wgator posted describes exactly what the oxidation ponds is and how it's laid out and suppose to function.

Looks like in the dry time of the year, if a person had an extended hoe that job would take an afternoon. It sure doesn't require much area. Pretty simple solution for the conditions there.

From reading the code it looks like septic tanks are required to be pumper very 8 years. Many times around here tanks won't need to be or get pumped for like 20 years. The differences seem to be moisture content in the soil.

 

[Russell King]

Ford,

You may check with your county (or parish in your state?) or town to see if they have the plans of your system. It is sometimes required to have plans and a permit taken out to build the system.

Then you would know what you are supposed to have.

That does not look like a very deep pond and that linked document talks of 4 and 5 foot depths.

I had to have a drip system installed since the area was a flood zone with too much rock/gravel. That didn’t require a chlorination process. You may also be able to have an above ground sprinkler system installed. Too many trees on my place. I recall that had to use chlorination process.

Either of them may require you to add a tank to the existing system and possibly an air pump to help with the process.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[D2Cat]

Russell, I don't think he needs to add anything to his system. I was approved when he purchased the property within the last couple of years when it was inspected for a loan. They are estremely critical at that inspection because their money is on the line.

 

[RCW]

Ford - - if you follow my link at post #24, then go to pages 33-36, there are typical oxidation pond construction specs.

Sorry - - I just missed that yesterday. Betting yours is (supposed to be) the Levee Pond design on page 35 and/or 36.

wgator had the same info in his link, but no typicals.

I have no clue as to required approvals, etc, required to maintain your pond. Like 'Cat, I'm inclined to "maintain" my own stuff. Like he said, all your stuff is there, your just doing maintenance.

You might want to ask a couple 'buds that are familiar with this kind of thing about what you can/can't do....

I probably wouldn't hog and haul the spoils somewhere, at least until it dries. Just use the spoils to make your berm if you can. Transporting/dumping the spoils could be a problem in this context, especially if wet. Not sure, but something to keep in mind... Remember I'm in New Yorkistan, so things are different here.

 

[eddiebob]

Not sure if there are any drilling fluid bulk plants in Alexandria but if there are they can sell you all the bentonite you could ever want.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Might I suggest:
If you want to safely dig it up and distribute the "dirt" elsewhere, before you start I would super chlorinate the whole kit and kaboodle.
Water and all of the dirt around it.
Ware some old clothes that you won't mind turning white and wear a respirator mask and spray all of the area down with 10/90 mix of bleach to water.
and a couple of gallons in the water directly.

This is also beneficial as any splash and material tracking will not be toxic and pathogen infected to anyone or anything that comes upon it, until mother nature can dispose of it permanently.