COVID-19 Stuff

[torch]

I was mocking anyone who believes that "freedom" means there can be no restrictions on an individual's behavior.

I was mocking anyone who believes that their convenience is more important than another's life.

I was mocking anyone who thinks these temporary restrictions provide some sort of economic advantage to business.

I was mocking anyone who compares police officers to Nazi "brown shirts" when they do their job.

Are the restrictions more than absolutely required? Nobody knows, and nobody will know for some time to come. First and foremost we need accurate and widespread antibody testing, which does not yet exist.

Should we not err on the side of caution? Come talk to me after you have done CPR on your 3rd suspected Covid victim of the day. Better yet, ask the asymptomatic girl who ignored the self-isolation directive and infected her friend instead (it's too late to ask the friend).

Ask the families of the medicos and first responders who have died caring for the ill.

 

[SidecarFlip]

When you look at the numbers I'm not sure how anyone can say the restrictions are getting out of hand. Right or wrong they are now starting to relax some of the restrictions, I guess we'll know soon enough whether or not it's a good idea. Patience is a virtue they say.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/canada/

Both you and I know where we stand on this and will act accordingly.

The naysayers, no point in wasting your time.

Let them find out first hand.

I have a feeling when it really gets out of control, those naysayers will all be doing what they do best.... whining. If they are around that is.

I pray it don't, for their sake and ours.

 

[motionclone]

I was mocking anyone who believes that "freedom" means there can be no restrictions on an individual's behavior.

I was mocking anyone who believes that their convenience is more important than another's life.

I was mocking anyone who thinks these temporary restrictions provide some sort of economic advantage to business.

I was mocking anyone who compares police officers to Nazi "brown shirts" when they do their job.

Are the restrictions more than absolutely required? Nobody knows, and nobody will know for some time to come. First and foremost we need accurate and widespread antibody testing, which does not yet exist.

Should we not err on the side of caution? Come talk to me after you have done CPR on your 3rd suspected Covid victim of the day. Better yet, ask the asymptomatic girl who ignored the self-isolation directive and infected her friend instead (it's too late to ask the friend).

Ask the families of the medicos and first responders who have died caring for the ill.

Thanks for clarifying. So why are you mocking rather than having an adult like conversation about it?
Some people value freedoms over restrictions. Maybe you just cant understand where some of us are coming from.

 

[SidecarFlip]

My personal feeling is this...

If an asymptomatic person knowingly infects another person and that person succumbs to Covid, the person who did the infecting should be arrested and tried for pre-meditated murder (murder 1).

I do know that if I got infected and survived (highly unlikely), and I knew who gave it to me, lets just say their existence on this orb would be short.

 

[motionclone]

My personal feeling is this...

If an asymptomatic person knowingly infects another person and that person succumbs to Covid, the person who did the infecting should be arrested and tried for pre-meditated murder (murder 1).

I do know that if I got infected and survived (highly unlikely), and I knew who gave it to me, lets just say their existence on this orb would be short.

Sounds like you should stay right inside your house forever for all of OUR safety.

 

[bearbait]

Sounds like you should stay right inside your house forever for all of OUR safety.

Come on now, that was just rude, no need for it.

 

[D2Cat]

The freedom loving mom in TX that was sent to JAIL for breaking the law and working anyway (mind you they released real criminals from jail) has been ordered to be released by TX supreme court.

Thanks god there are still some people in power with common sense.

https://www.citizenfreepress.com/br...s-policy-to-allow-shelley-luther-out-of-jail/

One will learn a lesson in lack of freedom if one does any study of the judge who sentenced the Shop owner to jail time. He is an outspoken, power hungry, hate free enterprise, constantly letting folks know his political position, control freak.

 

[motionclone]

Come on now, that was just rude, no need for it.

nah, just trying to save humanity. He wants non symptom people to go to jail for murder if they infect someone else. You guys sure are sensitive.

If an asymptomatic person knowingly infects another person and that person succumbs to Covid, the person who did the infecting should be arrested and tried for pre-meditated murder (murder 1).

and I knew who gave it to me, lets just say their existence on this orb would be short.

 

[motionclone]

One will learn a lesson in lack of freedom if one does any study of the judge who sentenced the Shop owner to jail time. He is an outspoken, power hungry, hate free enterprise, constantly letting folks know his political position, control freak.

and thank god there are some normal people left on the planet:

“I find it outrageous and out of touch that during this national pandemic, a judge, in a county that actually released hardened criminals for fear of contracting COVID-19, would jail a mother for operating her hair salon in an attempt to put food on her family’s table,” -Attorney General Paxton

 

[Oliver]

....People falsely assume the 'flattening the curve' somehow negates their responsibility to act like an adult.

All flattening the curve does is keep hospitals from being overloaded....

Yes and now hospitals are caught up let's slowly begin normalizing things for all the people out there who are not high risk. High risk people stay under whatever quarantine they choose until better medications and treatment is developed. We don't lock down all the healthy, low risk people.

 

[torch]

Thanks for clarifying. So why are you mocking rather than having an adult like conversation about it?
Some people value freedoms over restrictions. Maybe you just cant understand where some of us are coming from.

Because the adult debate ended with this comment:

Yep its our job to stand up and push back. Myself and many others in my state are openly defying recent orders from the gov. both in business and personal life.

While there are some differences in detail between our two countries, the various States and Provinces, we all trace our freedoms back to Runnymede and the Magna Carta. As a society, we are subject to the rule of law. Our common social contract holds that we are free only to the point that our actions do not unreasonably impair the freedom of others. A burglar is not allowed to enter your home and take your stuff just because he feels he should be free to do so.

Who decides what is "reasonable"? Our elected governments, as interpreted by our judicial systems. It is not up to individuals, and never has been. If you don't like the decisions of your elected government, then elect someone else instead. Heck, go ahead and run for office yourself. That is the essence of democracy.

Your own constitution does not guarantee complete freedom of action. It guarantees freedom of expression and the right to petition your government, not the right to openly defy the law of the land. That is the essence of anarchy. You are still obligated to conform to the law until and unless your petition effects change.

So yes, I do understand where you are coming from. The question is: do you?

 

[motionclone]

Because the adult debate ended with this comment:



While there are some differences in detail between our two countries, the various States and Provinces, we all trace our freedoms back to Runnymede and the Magna Carta. As a society, we are subject to the rule of law. Our common social contract holds that we are free only to the point that our actions do not unreasonably impair the freedom of others. A burglar is not allowed to enter your home and take your stuff just because he feels he should be free to do so.

Who decides what is "reasonable"? Our elected governments, as interpreted by our judicial systems. It is not up to individuals, and never has been. If you don't like the decisions of your elected government, then elect someone else instead. Heck, go ahead and run for office yourself. That is the essence of democracy.

Your own constitution does not guarantee complete freedom of action. It guarantees freedom of expression and the right to petition your government, not the right to openly defy the law of the land. That is the essence of anarchy. You are still obligated to conform to the law until and unless your petition effects change.

So yes, I do understand where you are coming from. The question is: do you?

Sorry you dont agree with me but thats not an excuse to revert to mocking.

And I know exactly what MY Constitution guarantees buddy.


Now Id like to refer you to a good post a few pages back:

saw a good post somewhere that essentially said....

freedom includes the freedom to "Fawk up" you can't separate that element out of "freedom". No such thing as cutting small freedoms to protect freedoms....does not work that way.

You can only push for wisdom and some balance among us via ... promote, educate, encourage, motivate..... but not sound like propaganda with a secret agenda....

damn.... freedom is difficult isn't it. It is even painful. But nothing great exist without "difficult and pain" either sooo.. beside there is far worse governmental systems; so IMHO we best stick with the democratic representative constitutional govt. that we have and the freedoms it allows for.

that being said now.... if someone sees it as the right thing to do is promote wise use of social-d and mask.... let them.. (maybe even listen to get both sides of the issue).... and as well listen to those who see it opposite and find that forcing / cutting freedoms is more dangerous/deadly, or.... its time for herd protection to get rolled out.. we should listen to that point too.

nothing wrong with debate (deee battte... no insult) ... educate, learn, and grow stronger smarter thru it all.

 

[twomany]

What I don't get in this "shut down to save lives" contest is that it only applies to "some" and not to all. How can you "shutdowners" accept the risk to all the grocery clerks and bicycle mechanics. All the plumbers and machine shop workers. All the ag producers, truckers, police and fire and night watchmen? Why only "some" need to be shut down in order for YOU to feel safe? Do you just feel your life is more important than theirs? Sick!

Those who live in fear of dying of this virus seem to have lost sight of the fact they are much more likely to die of any one of many "all other causes". That is simple math. 3 MILLION Americans die every year. That's nothing special, life is a fatal disease!
OVER 99 % of people that are infected by the SARS-CoV-2 virus DO NOT DIE from it.

Myopia is a fatal disease in this case.

Actually, there is no case for isolation but the distribution of resources.
If the bug persists, and comes around over and over and over, Get used to it.
Strengthen yourself. Pray if you are inclined.

Lots of people have it so much worse than you every day.....

I'm just glad that young people are not dying of the wuhan flue like they do from other seasonal flu. That would be a tragedy.

I won't live in fear....

 

[motionclone]

In NY State Cuomo said on April 13th " “If you isolate, if you take the precautions, your family won’t get infected.”

But looks like the stay at home order he unilaterally ORDERED hasnt exactly worked out.

Heres the article: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/06/ny-...hospitalizations-are-people-staying-home.html


But we are just supposed to listen to these dictators right? Trust what they say, do as we are told.

 

[torch]

Sorry you dont agree with me but thats not an excuse to revert to mocking.

Sorry you don't agree with the law, but that's not an excuse to break it.

 

[SidecarFlip]

My only comment to all the above is...'You make your bed, then you get to sleep in it' I sleep fine every night....

 

[motionclone]

Sorry you don't agree with the law, but that's not an excuse to break it.

Its not a law its and "Executive Order" made unilaterally

 

[dochsml]

Benjamin Franklin once said: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

 

[motionclone]

My only comment to all the above is...'You make your bed, then you get to sleep in it' I sleep fine every night....

did you see the data in nys? people who stayed home got it the most.

 

[SidecarFlip]

To me, the source is suspect. I looked at it. Now extrapolating that a bit, if it was based on the high population density of NYC, I can see that. Ever been there? I have. In fact my wife is from NYC, 34th avenue, rent controlled apartment where her dad and mom lived and died.

Packed like sardines in a tin can with no room to breathe, let alone sequester from Covid. So yes, I can see that in NYC. Not in the rest of the State however.

If you take that chart is applying to the entire State, it's skewed for an opinion only.