2012 L4240hstc-3 cold start concern

[dfixit1]

Hello everyone, this is my 3rd mule. I bought it used in May and I live in the snowbelt. Temps are dropping to low thirties and it’s barn kept.
It has summer fuel and 15w40 oil. I’m going to be changing soon to 5w-40 T6.
I start with everything in neutral, clutch in, wait for glow plug light to turn off and turn key to start. It starts right away but chugs for a couple seconds and oil smokes bad. Didn’t do this at all in warm weather and has about 212 hrs.
I’m under the impression it’s too rich and flooding the cylinders with fuel. Stumped, I went to the manual and only thing I can tell I’m not doing is opening throttle. Manual says half way. I’m waiting to buy some winter fuel towards end of November. Small town with a couple off road diesel pumps.
I called a friend who has a newer L3560hstc and he said his smokes badly too when cold.
Should I be cracking open the throttle and timing the glow plugs instead of waiting for them to go out? Thoughts?
Thanks

 

[chim]

You should get some anti-gel for the fuel you already have in the tank and forget about waiting for "winter fuel" and make your own. I've run 4 different diesel tractors since '91 and it has worked for me. I even add anti-gel to fuel bought in winter.

My normal start routine in cold weather is hit the glow plugs for 10-15 seconds and crank. If it doesn't start after 5 or so seconds of cranking I do the glow plugs again.

 

[dfixit1]

You should get some anti-gel for the fuel you already have in the tank and forget about waiting for "winter fuel" and make your own. I've run 4 different diesel tractors since '91 and it has worked for me. I even add anti-gel to fuel bought in winter.

My normal start routine in cold weather is hit the glow plugs for 10-15 seconds and crank. If it doesn't start after 5 or so seconds of cranking I do the glow plugs again.

I have some, but thought it wasnt recommended until freezing weather? Not sure how to mix it with the fuel in the tank....
From what Im reading in another forum this is normal because of emissions, retarded timing and fuel at 100% on cold start?

 

[Roadworthy]

The black smoke on cold start is pretty normal. I don't know where in the "snow belt" you live but temperature is the only concern for the fuel to gel. You can always set a small container of fuel out somewhere to see if it gels. I don't think it will above twenty degrees F, perhaps closer to zero. It will not hurt to add the anti gel compound but you may be premature worrying about it. The time spent running the glow plugs will vary with the temperature and the tractor as well as the specific glow plug type. My old Mitsubishi requires far more glow plug time than my new Kubota.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

It's possible that you have a bad glow plug or two, test them.

 

[dfixit1]

The black smoke on cold start is pretty normal. I don't know where in the "snow belt" you live but temperature is the only concern for the fuel to gel. You can always set a small container of fuel out somewhere to see if it gels. I don't think it will above twenty degrees F, perhaps closer to zero. It will not hurt to add the anti gel compound but you may be premature worrying about it. The time spent running the glow plugs will vary with the temperature and the tractor as well as the specific glow plug type. My old Mitsubishi requires far more glow plug time than my new Kubota.

Small amount of black smoke is what it does in warm weather but cold weather its blue and black. I believe its over fueled on a cold start in cold weather.
My old Kioti had a recall for a similar issue in cold weather and involved a reprogramming of the ECM.
Guess I will call the dealer and see if they have a start procedure that minimizes the smoke.

 

[chim]

..................Not sure how to mix it with the fuel in the tank....................

If your tank will take a gallon of fuel, mix the anti-gel with a gallon of fuel and add it to the tank.

 

[D2Cat]

Guys help me out. I do not know how to control the glow plug heat time on an L4240. GP's are controlled by sensors. When the light goes out, I start the engine. I've never experienced a problem with the engine not starting on the first attempt, or this excessive black/blue smoke.

How do you reheat the glow plugs, turn the key to off and start over? Then how do you keep them on for 10-15 seconds?

 

[dfixit1]

If your tank will take a gallon of fuel, mix the anti-gel with a gallon of fuel and add it to the tank.

I see from your signature you have the same model tractor.
If the weather is 32-40*, how long do you allow the glow plugs to heat?
Do you get the blue smoke?

 

[troverman]

Hello everyone, this is my 3rd mule. I bought it used in May and I live in the snowbelt. Temps are dropping to low thirties and it’s barn kept.
It has summer fuel and 15w40 oil. I’m going to be changing soon to 5w-40 T6.
I start with everything in neutral, clutch in, wait for glow plug light to turn off and turn key to start. It starts right away but chugs for a couple seconds and oil smokes bad. Didn’t do this at all in warm weather and has about 212 hrs.
I’m under the impression it’s too rich and flooding the cylinders with fuel. Stumped, I went to the manual and only thing I can tell I’m not doing is opening throttle. Manual says half way. I’m waiting to buy some winter fuel towards end of November. Small town with a couple off road diesel pumps.
I called a friend who has a newer L3560hstc and he said his smokes badly too when cold.
Should I be cracking open the throttle and timing the glow plugs instead of waiting for them to go out? Thoughts?
Thanks

First off, an L3560 has a DPF and should *NEVER* smoke. That said, many people confuse exhaust vapor with smoke. Vapor occurs because the gases flowing out of the pipe are much warmer than the ambient air and contain condensation moisture from inside the exhaust, and so you see the whitish vapor. No different than you see your breath when you breathe outside on a cold day.

The 4240 you have has electronic direct injection. It is not being "overfueled" but rather you likely have a malfunctioning glow plug(s). Diesel injection is much different than gas injection. Air is not metered like in a gas...there is no "air fuel mixture" that needs to be relatively precise. The fact that the problem occurs in cold weather is evidence of a glow plug issue.

You could try cycling the glow plugs. Turn key on, wait for light to go out, shut the key off, then turn back to glow position and wait for light again. However, given that this system is electronic, you shouldn't have to do that.

The smoke you see is the mostly unburned diesel in the cylinder(s) with the bad glow plug going out the exhaust. As the cylinder comes up to temp, the rough idle and smoke will smooth right out.

I am surprised that a 2012 model with only a couple hundred hours has a glow plug issue already. My 2002 L4310, which also had electronic glow plugs, worked perfectly when I sold it last year near 700 hours.

 

[dfixit1]

First off, an L3560 has a DPF and should *NEVER* smoke. That said, many people confuse exhaust vapor with smoke. Vapor occurs because the gases flowing out of the pipe are much warmer than the ambient air and contain condensation moisture from inside the exhaust, and so you see the whitish vapor. No different than you see your breath when you breathe outside on a cold day.

The 4240 you have has electronic direct injection. It is not being "overfueled" but rather you likely have a malfunctioning glow plug(s). Diesel injection is much different than gas injection. Air is not metered like in a gas...there is no "air fuel mixture" that needs to be relatively precise. The fact that the problem occurs in cold weather is evidence of a glow plug issue.

You could try cycling the glow plugs. Turn key on, wait for light to go out, shut the key off, then turn back to glow position and wait for light again. However, given that this system is electronic, you shouldn't have to do that.

The smoke you see is the mostly unburned diesel in the cylinder(s) with the bad glow plug going out the exhaust. As the cylinder comes up to temp, the rough idle and smoke will smooth right out.

I am surprised that a 2012 model with only a couple hundred hours has a glow plug issue already. My 2002 L4310, which also had electronic glow plugs, worked perfectly when I sold it last year near 700 hours.

Thanks, contacted my dealer and he said to cycle glow plugs 3 times. I took a video and will try to upload.

 

[dfixit1]

Took a screenshot of the video of the smoke.

 

[troverman]

Took a screenshot of the video of the smoke.

Looks thicker than vapor, more like some unburned fuel smoke. Once you get it running for a minute or two, does it smooth out and the smoke goes away?

 

[chim]

......................How do you reheat the glow plugs, turn the key to off and start over? Then how do you keep them on for 10-15 seconds?

Yes, start over. If it's cold the plugs will stay energized

I see from your signature you have the same model tractor.
If the weather is 32-40*, how long do you allow the glow plugs to heat?
Do you get the blue smoke?

At those temps probably 5-10 seconds. If it doesn't start quickly, another short session of glow plugs. There's generally a small amount of smoke that I write off as unburned fuel at the initial start.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

It was 7 degrees last night and only 16 right now, I can go out and start my L3450 with about 10 seconds of glow plug, It also doesn't smoke more than any other time.

Most diesel mixes will not gel until you reach much colder temps for a much longer time.

You need to test each glow plug then, if they test out you need to test the systems that control them.

Saying you live in the snowbelt is a wide open term, I'm in the snow belt and I'm nowhere near you...yes I know where you are.

Upload the video to Youtube then give us a link to watch it.

 

[dfixit1]

Looks thicker than vapor, more like some unburned fuel smoke. Once you get it running for a minute or two, does it smooth out and the smoke goes away?

Yes.
I tried the 3 cycles of glow plugs and it didn’t change much.
Anyone have information from the shop manual on the glow plugs?
Never was much of a diesel guy other than normal maintenance.
Thanks

 

[200mph]

Your problem sounds very similar to my experience, which I found the root cause and documented in the following post.

https://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40200&highlight=glow

Since fixing the GP relay socket my tractor starts like a modern gas motor. After the GP cycles off it takes 1 revolution of the motor to start.

Pull your GP replay. If the terminals are only 1/4" wide, purchase one with 3/8" wide tabs.

The female tabs in the GP relay socket are 3/8" wide on the high current side and the 1/4" male tabs won't provide adequate contact to carry the current.

Good luck.

 

[200mph]

Guys help me out. I do not know how to control the glow plug heat time on an L4240. GP's are controlled by sensors. When the light goes out, I start the engine. I've never experienced a problem with the engine not starting on the first attempt, or this excessive black/blue smoke.

How do you reheat the glow plugs, turn the key to off and start over? Then how do you keep them on for 10-15 seconds?

To reheat the GP's the key must be cycled off and then back on.

For your tractor the GP On time on is controlled by the computer and gets input from the temp sensor to adjust the time.

I tested my GP's last year and was amazed how quickly they glow nearly white hot (about 4 seconds and yes I timed it with a stop watch). When power is removed they don't go instantly cold. It takes some time for the GP to cool down.

 

[dfixit1]

Your problem sounds very similar to my experience, which I found the root cause and documented in the following post.

https://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40200&highlight=glow

Since fixing the GP relay socket my tractor starts like a modern gas motor. After the GP cycles off it takes 1 revolution of the motor to start.

Pull your GP replay. If the terminals are only 1/4" wide, purchase one with 3/8" wide tabs.

The female tabs in the GP relay socket are 3/8" wide on the high current side and the 1/4" male tabs won't provide adequate contact to carry the current.

Good luck.

WOW! Thanks for the heads up! I will check it out.
Btw you did a great well documented write up!
Did yours smoke before the repair?
Thanks!

 

[200mph]

WOW! Thanks for the heads up! I will check it out.
Btw you did a great well documented write up!
Did yours smoke before the repair?
Thanks!

Yes on start up.

Once your GP circuit is working as it should, you'll be amazed at how fast it starts and you'll be upset that Kubota made this mistake in the first place or didn't issue a recall to have it corrected.

Thanks for the complement on the write up.