Best Tractor For Us? Another B2650 / L2501 choice

[ibringtheruckus]

This will be a long post, I apologize for the length but hope that you will bear with me and afford us some of your expertise. Thanks in advance.

My wife and I are going to / have been pricing a tractor before the finance cut-off at the end of the month and see if the math works out for us or not.
(Now we know the math works, but not which tractor is best for us.)

We are currently on 2 acres. We would likely be on 50-100 acres north of here within 5 yrs, depending on market.
We would not be working that amount of land. We enjoy nature and solitude, we like hiking and seeing wildlife. We would have enough yard to keep the bugs down around the house, but nothing elaborate. We are pretty low-key outdoors kind of people.

We would be getting the tractor now instead of later to:

*give it the proper break in before we need to pound the hours on

*both learn to use it with confidence before we need to be able to perform under pressure of time constraint while building our next house

*know that the maintenance has been done at or better than spec, and know that we will get the full life of the unit. At least we would know what happened and why, and have 6 years to get it ironed out on warranty or KTAC

*replace the snowblower that i can't push through or down into the snow drifts here. I think the trees across the road act like a snow fence, depositing the snow in my driveway and the wind from the lake packs it hard.

*finish the landscaping here, construct our food garden, top-dress the holes in the lawn, construct the flower type gardens, rebuild the swale that has flowed into the ditch, etc

*help my father in law with getting firewood

*spread some dirt at my parent's place so dad can fix his lawn

*take advantage of 0% for 6yrs with 6 yr powertrain, this also allows us to take advantage of KTAC which is apparently only available in Canada on new, financed Kubota's.

What we would use it for in the future:

*Rough entrance/ driveway
*test hole for septic permit
*help with clearing property
*covering o-pipe around foundation with gravel
*back-filling (if I have to wait for excavator, has cost me a week or so in the past)
*rough grade(if I have to wait for excavator)
*moving lumber
*moving brick
*moving rocks
*lifting beams
*lifting plywood to roof (not full 60sht lifts)
*window install, moving windows around
*moving skids of hardwood and tile
*gravel for under decks
*if we get bh subframe and rent / borrow bh: hydro trench, drain trench, evestrough drains, possibly sonotubes, propane line, well line
propane tank install
*fix rough grade and spread top soil
*fine tune finish grade
*power rake / harley rake for preparing final grade or similar attachment
*possibly post holes for fences

Ongoing from completion of next (hopefully last) house:

*help getting firewood (grapple would be so sweet)
*snowblowing
*rototilling or disc-ing garden
*keeping access trails open, some bush hogging
*regrading heaved driveway ( I notice everyone I know with property up north always needs to re-do their driveway spring and fall)
*mow with it then, wether mmm or 3pt,

I have been doing the research for us on this, but we both have been out test driving etc. My wife says the B seems like a better buy based on my research, but that she would get used to either.

What I like about both tractors:

*large engine de-tuned to make it's power at low rpms and below the DPF line for HP.
*ground clearance
*good fit for lifting capacities and implement sizes for our uses

What I like about L2501

Bigger wider frame.
Thicker axle shorter axle length, seems like it has to be stronger.
Bigger HST, cast iron housing, looks strong as heck.
Old school dash, no digital nonsense.

What I don't like about the L2501

Conventional power steering. I work in the housing industry, I work around excavators and heavy equipment a lot. 99% seems to have hydraulic steering. A friend of mine owns an excavating co. and has told me he would not own a piece of equipment with conventional PS and a loader. I know on my truck working it all the time that steering components are wear items really, especially the pitman arm. Seems like Kubota really went backwards here.

Weaker hydraulics. Lower lift capacities front and rear compared to the B. Also the third function apparently can only be a line to the front and then the valve is on the implement. Since most equipment has the valve on the unit, this makes renting or borrowing attachments difficult.

Can't get more than telescoping stabilizers on 3 pt.

What I like about the B2650:

Hydraulic power steering.
Strong hydraulic system, can have third function, rear remotes and better lift capacity.
fully adjustable 3pt hitch available, telescoping stabilizers / link ends and ratcheting lift rod.
the seat.

What I don't like about the B2650:

Digital dash
I wish the HST/axle/frame were as beefy as the L. I know that similar sized units have been working longer than I've been alive, but I like solid frame a lot.
Aluminum housing on rear. Seems fragile compared to L, anyone ever have trouble??
Concerns that the tractor won't last longer than me. We are generally people who buy equipment once and maintain it.


In general, we often find that buying the best of class is usually the correct choice. The B2650 is going to have all the top-tier components of the series, whereas the L2501 is going to have some compromises like conventional PS.
We are not able to purchase a top of the line L-series. That said, maybe in this case the benefits of a larger frame outweigh the downsides?

What we want:
*HST
*4WD
*ROPS
*Alternator, would have to upgrade the B
*Ideally loaded turf tires with enough plies that they have the puncture resistance of R4's Do they exist?
*wheel spacer kit
*Block heater (just in case)
*Front loader, SSQA
*third function valve
*60" bucket
*QA pallet forks
*hydraulic spill guard
*Backhoe mount kit and plumbing so I can borrow my friends BH77
*2 rear remotes. One for snowblower rotation etc, one with float (I think?)
*64" 2-stage snowblower with hydraulic rotation
*Telescopic lower links and stabilizers, ratcheting lift rod.
Anything on my list that just can't be done with either, I would look at suggested options or arguments for or against as well.


Would you help us make the best decision for our purposes?


Now I am going to the garage because if I don't clear it out and build some shelves, there will be no room for tractors

 

[dirtydeed]

Looks like you did a nice job in thinking about your needs. But, from what you are describing, it sounds like an L series would be a better fit. You really can't go wrong with either machine, they both punch above their weight class.

Regarding the "borrowed" hoe...what machine is it off of? That will make a difference. The BH77 on the L series has it's own seat, the ROPS version on the B does not. It uses a swivel seat. The only B that uses a separate seat on the hoe is the cabbed B version. Its the same as the L series hoe.

Oh, and the control stick are different for the hoe with it's own seat (the sticks are straight and much shorter). They are almost unusable with a ROPS version B (those sticks are much longer and bent toward the operator).

The B with a hoe on it weighs in about what an L does without anything on the 3 pt rear.

 

[PaulL]

Lots of good research and thinking.

I suspect in some ways the L is the better tractor for your description.

You don't mention cab or front mount snowblower. Sounds like you're buying this for the long term - are you sure you don't want those?

I thought the BH subframe was only on the BX, and the B and L can both have a BH added at any time.

I think the L hydraulics are actually more powerful like for like. The L lifts a bit less to maximum height, but its maximum height is more - when lifting to the same height as the B I've heard it actually lifts more. Either way I think the difference between the two capacities is relatively minor.

The L is a beefier tractor, and the engine is much larger (i.e. detuned more). I'd pick it to have a longer life, but as you correctly suggest, once it will last long enough to last your lifetime, then probably more doesn't impact you.

You lose some creature comforts though. Like you I like the look of the analogue dash more, but some of the other features I'd perhaps value on the B.

If it were me, I'd be looking at the B, a front mount snowblower, and a cab. But if I needed a bit more lift and weight, particularly for moving pallets of building materials around, the L would also be an excellent choice.

 

[ibringtheruckus]

Looks like you did a nice job in thinking about your needs. But, from what you are describing, it sounds like an L series would be a better fit. You really can't go wrong with either machine, they both punch above their weight class.

Regarding the "borrowed" hoe...what machine is it off of? That will make a difference. The BH77 on the L series has it's own seat, the ROPS version on the B does not. It uses a swivel seat. The only B that uses a separate seat on the hoe is the cabbed B version. Its the same as the L series hoe.

Oh, and the control stick are different for the hoe with it's own seat (the sticks are straight and much shorter). They are almost unusable with a ROPS version B (those sticks are much longer and bent toward the operator).

The B with a hoe on it weighs in about what an L does without anything on the 3 pt rear.

Thanks for the reply, I was unaware that there were two versions of the backhoe until yesterday. Both you, and (surprisingly on a weekend) a salesman pointed that out. I will have to check into what is available to us
We were not planning on owning the backhoe for now. Currently it would be a lawn ornament with no shelter. The hoe wouldn't fit in the garage space we have left.

**PaulL I replied to you as well but it is being moderated I think??

 

[ibringtheruckus]

Lots of good research and thinking.

I suspect in some ways the L is the better tractor for your description.

You don't mention cab or front mount snowblower. Sounds like you're buying this for the long term - are you sure you don't want those?

I thought the BH subframe was only on the BX, and the B and L can both have a BH added at any time.

I think the L hydraulics are actually more powerful like for like. The L lifts a bit less to maximum height, but its maximum height is more - when lifting to the same height as the B I've heard it actually lifts more. Either way I think the difference between the two capacities is relatively minor.

The L is a beefier tractor, and the engine is much larger (i.e. detuned more). I'd pick it to have a longer life, but as you correctly suggest, once it will last long enough to last your lifetime, then probably more doesn't impact you.

You lose some creature comforts though. Like you I like the look of the analogue dash more, but some of the other features I'd perhaps value on the B.

If it were me, I'd be looking at the B, a front mount snowblower, and a cab. But if I needed a bit more lift and weight, particularly for moving pallets of building materials around, the L would also be an excellent choice.

Thanks for your reply. I expect that while blowing snow in the winter I would curse myself for the lack of cab, I have found the cab to be less handy in the woods and years ago while using company tractors I preferred the open station kind of set-up for being on and off the tractor so much.

In some ways the front mount snowblower would be ideal, and was my first choice. My problem is that in the winter I will also need the loader for various reasons around our own place and away. One example being that my parents live near-by and I would have to drive over with the loader, drop it, drive home get the snowblower mounted, drive back etc. Because they have property on both sides of the road, I can't push gravel laden snow with the loader anywhere without making more work for them.

It seems like I could add the subframe connectors and lines for the backhoe later, but I hate the idea of sandwiching possible corrosion on the original frame with a future subframe and having hidden rot. Some of the snow / ice agents put on the roads here are brutal for corrosion, and seem to migrate into the yard.

Good points about the lift heights, I didn't notice that and I should re-compare more apples to apples. I thought weaker because the L doesn't have hydraulic steering, and can't have the third function on the tractor. We priced both to have a grapple, and the L grapple costs more because the valve etc are on the grapple, not the tractor. So as per the salesman, every third function implement would cost more and require the valve on the implement.
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Update**Currently I am undecided and my wife is leaning towards B.**
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[Freeheeler]

Those are the same 2 tractors I was debating between. I decided the B was better for me. I keep the BH77 on most of the time, only taking it off to use the box for dressing up the driveway. I liked the taller ground clearance, longer stance, but also tighter turn radius. The steering just felt more comfortable to me. I also like the comfort features of the B, especially not having to step over the 'hump' since I'm on and off constantly. As far as the dash is concerned, I initially liked the idea of the analog better, but honestly, the digital is great and I've not had any problems with it. The lifting capacity was ever so slightly better on the B, but that didn't really make or break anything, it's only a few pounds difference.
Both machines would fit your needs, it comes down to preference. I'd expect them both to last a lifetime if cared for properly. The only real working differences would be if you needed a mid pto and/or cab, then the B would be your answer. If those things aren't needed, then either would fit your needs, it may come down to which one you could get a better deal on. Good luck with your search.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Its funny how everyone wants to compare the B2650 with the L2501.

That is not an apples to apple comparison, not even close.

Compare a B2301 or 2601 with a L2501

Now compare the B2650 with the L3560 now you have an closer comparison.

The L3560 beats the living snot out of a B2650 In a ton of aspects.

For a all around workhorse that's the model to get, it's got power, reliability, and a ton of features.

Yea it's more money, but it's way more tractor!

 

[sheepfarmer]

I agree with NIW and i have both an L3560 and a B2650. If I could only have one it woul d be the L. The B I got to replace my old Ingersoll in its snowblowing role.

After living with first a Ford 8n then the L, an d then adding the B, and talking with neighbors that have had many tractors over the years, it is nigh unto impossible to get everything you want done with one tractor .. a lot of folks eventually wind up with several outfitted for specific sets of tasks. This is too hard to plan for or afford initially. I would suggest picking out the most urgent things and just figure you're going to need to rent stuff as needed, or trade this one in as your property expands. Good luck stay safe and enjoy whatever you choose!

 

[Freeheeler]

Its funny how everyone wants to compare the B2650 with the L2501.

That is not an apples to apple comparison, not even close.


Now compare the B2650 with the L3560 now you have an closer comparison.

I think it's because they are very similar size and hp classes with very similar lifting capacity.


I wouldn't call that a fair comparison. The L3560 and the B3350 would be a better comparison with the L still a much better tractor.

 

[leoric]

Speaking from having the B2650 I think the L will be a better fit for you. If you aren't considering the front snowblower I don't see why you're still looking at the B. The main reason I went with the B is because of the weight. In Indiana it's flat and wet. My property doesn't enjoy a heavier machine. Weight isn't a negative factor you mentioned. The B is lighter, more nimble, has a mid PTO for a blower. None of those are things you asked for so the L does it all, but probably more.

 

[ibringtheruckus]

Those are the same 2 tractors I was debating between. I decided the B was better for me. I keep the BH77 on most of the time, only taking it off to use the box for dressing up the driveway. I liked the taller ground clearance, longer stance, but also tighter turn radius. The steering just felt more comfortable to me. I also like the comfort features of the B, especially not having to step over the 'hump' since I'm on and off constantly. As far as the dash is concerned, I initially liked the idea of the analog better, but honestly, the digital is great and I've not had any problems with it. The lifting capacity was ever so slightly better on the B, but that didn't really make or break anything, it's only a few pounds difference.
Both machines would fit your needs, it comes down to preference. I'd expect them both to last a lifetime if cared for properly. The only real working differences would be if you needed a mid pto and/or cab, then the B would be your answer. If those things aren't needed, then either would fit your needs, it may come down to which one you could get a better deal on. Good luck with your search.

Thanks, appreciate hearing your choice and reasons. Is the digital well- backlit for night? I never did turn the lights on
My wife really prefers the idea of a MMM so the front PTO would eventually get used. That said, she says she could get used to a 3pt, the mmm just has familiarity conceptually.
The lighter weight of the B versus the extra weight of the L both have use to us,for different reasons, it's really a toss-up I think. She prefers the lighter B.

 

[ibringtheruckus]

Its funny how everyone wants to compare the B2650 with the L2501.

That is not an apples to apple comparison, not even close.

Compare a B2301 or 2601 with a L2501

Now compare the B2650 with the L3560 now you have an closer comparison.

The L3560 beats the living snot out of a B2650 In a ton of aspects.

For a all around workhorse that's the model to get, it's got power, reliability, and a ton of features.

Yea it's more money, but it's way more tractor!

Thanks, I agree that it's not apples to apples, it is dollars to dollars though +/-.
It's something I was told a long time ago and have found to be true of many things, "better to buy the best-in-class of what you can afford than the entry level of a class you can't".
The 2650 has all the premium B series components and the 2501 has some reduced / entry level components compared to the top L's.

If you had to choose, which way would you go?

 

[Freeheeler]

I mainly do loader, backhoe work, and weight doesn't really matter with that. Lighter is less traumatic on the turf. If you are doing a lot of ground engagement work, the L is heavier and better in that regard.
As far as the gauge goes, I don't really know, but I'll check on that. I mostly go by sound and feel for the rpms and really only pay attention to the gauge to keep up with the hours to tell me when to lube. I'll check to see if it's backlit tonite. It is easy to see both in the shade and in bright light.

 

[ibringtheruckus]

I agree with NIW and i have both an L3560 and a B2650. If I could only have one it woul d be the L. The B I got to replace my old Ingersoll in its snowblowing role.

After living with first a Ford 8n then the L, an d then adding the B, and talking with neighbors that have had many tractors over the years, it is nigh unto impossible to get everything you want done with one tractor .. a lot of folks eventually wind up with several outfitted for specific sets of tasks. This is too hard to plan for or afford initially. I would suggest picking out the most urgent things and just figure you're going to need to rent stuff as needed, or trade this one in as your property expands. Good luck stay safe and enjoy whatever you choose!

Thanks, that is a good step-back and look at the big picture opinion. Maybe we are getting carried away with trying to "swiss-army-knife" a tractor.

The part I bolded is what we would do if we woke up much wealthier lol. Perhaps over time that is how it will play out. Getting a tractor that would do what we generally would use it for, plus a little bit of ability to accomplish once-in-a-while chores is where we started. Shopping used and with the idea of renting a mini-ex etc as required. When we started actually checking stuff out, used stuff was all pretty beat or within a few k of new. Then the L2501 was brought up to us and we started thinking maybe we could do more.

 

[ibringtheruckus]

Speaking from having the B2650 I think the L will be a better fit for you. If you aren't considering the front snowblower I don't see why you're still looking at the B. The main reason I went with the B is because of the weight. In Indiana it's flat and wet. My property doesn't enjoy a heavier machine. Weight isn't a negative factor you mentioned. The B is lighter, more nimble, has a mid PTO for a blower. None of those are things you asked for so the L does it all, but probably more.

Thanks, those are fair points. I hear you on the wet. It's high water table here and quite wet. I can't mow with a zt yet. My neighbour buried his lawn tractor yesterday. Last year near the end of June another neighbour sank a dozer, had to get a high hoe in to get it out.
Weight isn't a problem when we go north because Ontario turns to rock real quick as you go north, and it isn't a problem here because I know it's "leave that kind of work till fall or get a high hoe."

 

[ibringtheruckus]

I mainly do loader, backhoe work, and weight doesn't really matter with that. Lighter is less traumatic on the turf. If you are doing a lot of ground engagement work, the L is heavier and better in that regard.
As far as the gauge goes, I don't really know, but I'll check on that. I mostly go by sound and feel for the rpms and really only pay attention to the gauge to keep up with the hours to tell me when to lube. I'll check to see if it's backlit tonite. It is easy to see both in the shade and in bright light.

What tires did you go with?
I am reconsidering things after Sheepfarmer's post. A lot of what I believe would be the "heavier" jobs for the tractor would be during construction of our place, after which loader work, snowblowing, maintaining trails with a bush hog etc. are the ongoing tasks. You saw my original list, no sense re-stating it lol .

 

[leoric]

Thanks, those are fair points. I hear you on the wet. It's high water table here and quite wet. I can't mow with a zt yet. My neighbour buried his lawn tractor yesterday. Last year near the end of June another neighbour sank a dozer, had to get a high hoe in to get it out.
Weight isn't a problem when we go north because Ontario turns to rock real quick as you go north, and it isn't a problem here because I know it's "leave that kind of work till fall or get a high hoe."

Ah well maybe weight is an issue for you. I see you now mentioned that in an above post. My B will mow 'anywhere' within reason. My zero turn will get stuck an in instant. The B won't get stuck but there will be marks left to deal with.

 

[dirtydeed]

Thanks, those are fair points. I hear you on the wet. It's high water table here and quite wet. I can't mow with a zt yet. My neighbour buried his lawn tractor yesterday. Last year near the end of June another neighbour sank a dozer, had to get a high hoe in to get it out.
Weight isn't a problem when we go north because Ontario turns to rock real quick as you go north, and it isn't a problem here because I know it's "leave that kind of work till fall or get a high hoe."

Same here, very wet (my road name is Swamp Road). That played was a large consideration when I moved up from my BX. I didn't want the added bulk of the L in my case.

I don't regret getting the B2650 at all. It has plenty of maneuverability for landscaping stuff and still enough grunt for woods work. Sounds like you'd want R4's as well.

 

[ibringtheruckus]

Ah well maybe weight is an issue for you. I see you now mentioned that in an above post. My B will mow 'anywhere' within reason. My zero turn will get stuck an in instant. The B won't get stuck but there will be marks left to deal with.

Well, I didn't mention it straight off because I guess I have become so accustomed to it I just plan around it and didn't really think about it. Also, generally as we would probably go north, the soil is pretty thin over the rock most places, any real top soil we would be bringing in for the most part. That said, the flooding going on this year would certainly be something to consider.

 

[ibringtheruckus]

Same here, very wet (my road name is Swamp Road). That played was a large consideration when I moved up from my BX. I didn't want the added bulk of the L in my case.

I don't regret getting the B2650 at all. It has plenty of maneuverability for landscaping stuff and still enough grunt for woods work. Sounds like you'd want R4's as well.

Yeah, initially I thought R4's for puncture resistance especially, but have been hearing that R3's are better for winter, and a lot wider for better spreading the weight out.

Seems the wet vs weight is another factor we should look more closely at.