Skidding winch

[Stomper]

The nylon strap used as a winch brake is too funny!

I was wondering what that strap was doing there

 

[Stomper]

Thanks for the encouragement guys! I've got a few smaller trees and some bucks on the hill next to my construction site (building a house). As soon as I can catch up from all this rain we've been having I'll hook it up and give it another go.

My Dad did turn a new captan for me, this one is 8" tall so that I can get a lot more loops on it. I'll see if that helps and try some other pieces of rope too.

Maybe a quick video also if it's not too much bother.

 

[crmorse]

I’m actually out of town right now so I’ll have to get back to you with dimensions. I had a friend do ghe welding which is why I had the drawings. Best I can remember off-hand it’s mostly 1/8” wall 2” square tube. The receiver and fork holders were something else so I’ll have to measure when I get home Friday.

And I have plenty of pics and video so far so no trouble to get one of my next attempt too.


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[hope to float]

I was trying to post when the laptop calved.
I was thinking of something like a pot hauler that they use on boats.
It is like a "V" pulley instead of a capstan and there is a "knife" to stop the rope getting caught in the groove. To disengage the pulling action you simply pull sharply on the slack end of the rope to get it out of the groove.

 

[Stomper]

I was trying to post when the laptop calved.
I was thinking of something like a pot hauler that they use on boats.
It is like a "V" pulley instead of a capstan and there is a "knife" to stop the rope getting caught in the groove. To disengage the pulling action you simply pull sharply on the slack end of the rope to get it out of the groove.
View attachment 40037

Thats interestingI have never seen one of those before so I'm not sure exactly how it functions, but I think you would have to pull really hard to get enough friction to pull a log.

 

[hope to float]

Thats interestingI have never seen one of those before so I'm not sure exactly how it functions, but I think you would have to pull really hard to get enough friction to pull a log.

No. If the rope is sized properly for the pulley they have a very good grip. You are basically just coiling the rope. If you look at "Deadliest Catch" that is what they are using to haul the pots, except bigger.
On the boat I used to fish you had to set the pressure release valve so that it didn't have enough power to flip the boat (well you were supposed to )

 

[crmorse]

As requested, here's a few pics and dimensions.

The brace arms (not sure what they're properly called) are 2.5 x 2.5 x 1/8" square tube.

Outer sleeves for the brace arms are 3-1/8" x 3-1/8". I'm guessing that's 3" nominal, but I'm not sure.

I gave the plans to a welder friend who did all the steel cutting and welding for me so I let him pick the sizes. That same larger size square tube also fits a standard 2" hitch (center).

 

[crmorse]

Here's the new capstan my Dad turned for me from a $40 billet I bought off Amazon. My hope is that I can get more loops on the capstan to get better friction out of my existing rope. (this was all done before this current thread suggested I try different rope)

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01F80WGU8/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[Stomper]

Your Dad did a great job with turning the capstan. The extra wraps that new capstan will allow should definately help with the rope slippage issue.

 

[crmorse]

Your Dad did a great job with turning the capstan. The extra wraps that new capstan will allow should definately help with the rope slippage issue.

Yes he did. He's my treasure!

There's another reason why I made a new capstan. I was just reviewing the videos I had of operating it and found one from when I got the capstan from Portable Winch. Theirs has a slight taper on it that pushes the rope to one side. It was the wrong side for my mount so the rope kept doubling over top of itself and getting bound up. First I tried flipping the capstan over to reverse the bunching but that didn't really help. I also tried using the little nudging wedge that comes with it and all that did (mostly due to poor mounting on my part... I am not (yet) a welder) was score my capstan and pinch my rope in half. What finally worked was I had Dad turn it to remove the taper. The rope still tends to bunch but it's easily fixed with just a slight release of tension. You'll see what I mean when I post the video --hopefully tonight.

 

[crmorse]

First I tried flipping the capstan over to reverse the bunching but that didn't really help. I also tried using the little nudging wedge that comes with it and all that did (mostly due to poor mounting on my part... I am not (yet) a welder) was score my capstan and pinch my rope in half.

I just noticed that early versions also had my fairlead mounted too high. That was fixed later on but won't appear in the video I post.

 

[crmorse]

Here's a quick video of my previous attempts to use my homebuilt winch last year.

https://youtu.be/0iM4Jk0SJyI

I've since tweaked the fairlead height which helped some and I've replaced the 4" tall capstan with an 8" in hopes of getting more traction with less effort but I haven't tested that yet.

 

[Stomper]

I can see what you mean about the rope slipping. It has to be something simple because the capstans in the Norwood and Porta Winch videos don't slip like that and they were pulling some good size logs. I would almost bet it's the rope. You mentioned that the capstan spool had a slight taper to it. I think it was a good idea that you adjusted the height of the fairlead because in the video you can see the taper and the height of the fairlead working against each other. As you tighten up the rope and it starts rotaing with the capstan, it works it's way down the spool towards the motor ( I'm assuming this is why the taper is there, so the pulling force on the bottom wrap of rope is as close to the motor as possible) and when you let up the tension on the rope, the height of the fairlead pushes the rope back up the spool and the whole process starts over. I think the bunching up of the rope was a cause of the fairlead being to high also, so by lowering it you fixed a couple issues. If you look at the fairlead (bar) in the norwood video, the top of it looks to be at the same height as the spool where the first wrap of rope rests.
I believe that with the taller capstan and more wraps you will get more friction simply because of the surface area contact between the rope and capstan. But I don't think you should have to do that.
Of course these are just my theories from what I have seen. I have no first hand experience with these winches.....yet

 

[Lennyzx11]

I worked as a cell tower builder in a previous life. The “cat head” as we called it was strong enough to pull the top of a cell tower a good lean with enough wraps. We used it to tag items away from the tower during picks and general running stuff up and down the tower.

No mechanical advantage used with tackle. Sometimes a directional change though for a complicated pull.

Ours was only about a 6 inch spool with enough room for about 4 wraps. We normally used two wraps. The tension was sufficient to suspend 400-600 lbs off the ground using only a light grip on the line. I had been able to snap a rope with 3 wraps. It was 5/8-3/4” nylon as I recall.
The diameter of the spool makes a difference. A short fatter spool with less wraps made better power than a longer skinny one.
The rope was very limber. Think spaghetti.A stiff rope never worked for shit. It had to be able to coil into a tighter radius than the spool’s diameter.


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[Stomper]

Thanks for chiming in Lenny. It's good to hear from someone who has had experience with these before. makes sence with the larger diameter spool creating more grip on the rope. Being that you have used this kind of winch in the past do you have any ideas as to why crmorse is having rope slip issues.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Throwing some ideas out there about rope slip... Too many wraps on the Capstan ir how about applying a knurl to the inner diameter of the Capstan. That would really give you bite.

I own a Lewis winch btw, I use it on my property up north for skidding logs but mine is driven with a chainsaw powerhead and I tie it to a tree. With the Lewis, all you need is 2 wraps.

 

[Stomper]

Throwing some ideas out there about rope slip... Too many wraps on the Capstan ir how about applying a knurl to the inner diameter of the Capstan. That would really give you bite.

I own a Lewis winch btw, I use it on my property up north for skidding logs but mine is driven with a chainsaw powerhead and I tie it to a tree. With the Lewis, all you need is 2 wraps.

Does Lewis winch have a capstan winch? All I could find on their site was cable winch run by a chainsaw.

 

[Stomper]

My tractor hydraulic system puts out 5 gpm at 2200 psi. I have researched and found a hydraulic motor for a capstan winch that will give me close to the 60 rpm I am wanting at 5 gpm flow. My question is, at what engine rpm are tractor hydraulics rated. In other words, I want the motor to run at 60 rpm when the tractor engine is at or just above idle not at or near max rpm. How do I figure this into the selection of the motor.
The motor that I found is 15.4 cu.in. motor. How do I know if this motor is sized right or if I need a smaller or bigger flow motor to get the rpm I want at or near idle.

 

[Lennyzx11]

My tractor hydraulic system puts out 5 gpm at 2200 psi. I have researched and found a hydraulic motor for a capstan winch that will give me close to the 60 rpm I am wanting at 5 gpm flow. My question is, at what engine rpm are tractor hydraulics rated. In other words, I want the motor to run at 60 rpm when the tractor engine is at or just above idle not at or near max rpm. How do I figure this into the selection of the motor.
The motor that I found is 15.4 cu.in. motor. How do I know if this motor is sized right or if I need a smaller or bigger flow motor to get the rpm I want at or near idle.

If the link works, here’s some calculators.
I’m afraid I haven’t found the flow rate at idle output yet. Or how to figure it based on the rated flow at a certain rpm that we are given.

Another important consideration would be the amount of torque produced by the hydraulic motor at idle or low rpms to drive the winch.
The hydraulic motor could turn at the required speed but have no strength when loaded.

Torque is the reason for the “grunt” of an engine as it labors at lower rpms fixed by revving the engine up slightly.

https://www.womackmachine.com/engin...nd-calculations/hydraulic-motor-calculations/


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[Stomper]

If the link works, here’s some calculators.
I’m afraid I haven’t found the flow rate at idle output yet. Or how to figure it based on the rated flow at a certain rpm that we are given.

Another important consideration would be the amount of torque produced by the hydraulic motor at idle or low rpms to drive the winch.
The hydraulic motor could turn at the required speed but have no strength when loaded.

Torque is the reason for the “grunt” of an engine as it labors at lower rpms fixed by revving the engine up slightly.

https://www.womackmachine.com/engin...nd-calculations/hydraulic-motor-calculations/


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Thats awesome. Thanks for the link to the calculator, it helps out big time for my selection. Now I can run the performance data of the motors I have been looking at and find out which one would work best.