L3650 Steering Box Fix (Old Style Steering)

[Pau7220]

Here's where my story started..

http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?p=250663#post250663

After a thorough repair and rebuild, 50 hours later the snap ring shattered again, blowing the input bearing retainer off and dumping the fluid once again. Thinking I may not have cut the recess squarely or deep enough, I went on the search for a housing.

I was able to find a used housing (more on that FIASCO later), ordered another batch of seals and gaskets from Messicks, and did another thorough rebuild.

During final adjustment I noticed when turning the input shaft to the left (wheels go to right), the ball nut comes up and hits the bearing retainer. With the slightest amount of force with a small pair of vice-grips on the shaft, I was watching the snap ring flexing.... only imagining what it looks like with the force of hydraulics slamming up against it. Anyway, I figured I'd get the box put back on then try to figure out a solution, even though you can't see any part of the input end when it's installed.

After I got it back on, cleaned up, fluid back in and working properly... I noticed it definitely was overthrowing and trying to kill itself again. RF tire had also been hitting the loader valve to the point of the bracket being bent, and had the hoses abraded.

Trying to figure this one out before taking a bridge, I noticed the steering stops on the knuckles were quite worn, combined with a little play in the tie rod ends (the reason I drilled and tapped for grease fittings), along with a poor design.... I got it!! Now how do I fix it?

This is what I came up with. I found a piece of 1/2" x 2 1/2" , cut, drilled, fit to hit pitman arm, and spaced out with flat washers for adjustment. I had to cut the angle to clear the tie rods when the axle articulated. I set it so I could get my fist between the loader valve and the tire (after straightening the bracket). Now I have plenty of safe area with the pitman arm hitting the stop long before the ball nut hits the bearing retainer blowing the box apart. Now I know why it's the defunct "old style steering ".

 

[Dave_eng]

I am offering you some info on a small but important part of any assembly using snap rings. They can go on the right way and the wrong way.

I am not suggesting this is your problem buy getting this part of a rebuild correct would be a smart step.

Internal snap rings too have a right and a wrong way to be installed

Dave

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

My L3450 has the newer Hydrostatic steering, and I can tell you a much better setup, no shock loads to the wheel when you bump into things, and it's tough!

Glad to hear you got yours all fixed up and it shouldn't give you any more issues!

 

[Pau7220]

Thanks for the responses guys.

Dave thanks for the response with the correct snap ring installation guide, I always enjoy hearing from engineer.... NO sarcasm intended at all. I will assure you the internal snap ring was installed correctly. If you look at the first picture in the link, you can see where the last chunk of snap ring was holding on for dear life, I'm sure that's how the boss got torn from the shock load of the ball nut hitting the bearing retainer. I am sure Kubota designed this to have the snap ring hold in hydraulic pressure, not a hydraulically actuated hammer (ball nut). I'm not the first person that was in working on this steering box, and I'm sure that's why it was sold, because they couldn't figure out the problem.

So here's the rest of the story/fiasco...

On 6-2-18 In my search for a used steering box to repair, I wound up calling Farmland Tractor Supply in Tangent, OR. I have no idea who I talked to initially, but he obviously was not an experienced parts person. I asked if he had a 30400-66100 steering box. He spent some time tapping away at a computer keyboard and said no they did not, and it is very difficult to come by since most of these models came with hydrostatic steering.

10 minutes later the phone rings, same guy. "I've got your steering box in my hands, only problem is it's got a broken off input shaft." I said "fantastic all I really need is the housing, but there's some other butchered parts on mine I'd like to replace also." I continued my questions, "so the rest of the box is complete, does it look like anyone else was tampering with it?" I asked this question because it looked like someone was screwing with my pressure relief adjustment on the steering box, and I wasn't sure if my problem was overpressurization. He said, "no, it's complete, doesn't look tampered with, and the broken piece of shaft is in the box. The price is $300 if you want it." Once again I asked, "so that is the price just like it is, complete?" He said, "correct, plus the shipping." My ecstatic response was, "fantastic! Box it up and ship it just like it is!" He then told me to hold on while he passed me off to Miguel J. to get my credit card information and shipping address.

A week later, I received my package. In the package was a bare honed housing, obviously in a fire... with melted plastic and rubber stuck to the exterior, just a touch of gray-blue paint left on the bottom ... with a $300 bill for a 31351-66100 housing. I immediately picked up the phone and called, Miguel answered. I told him the situation and I said "somewhere in your shop there has to be a workbench full of parts that belong to me." He put me on hold for 5 minutes, then came back with, "nope nothing here, you must be mistaken." I asked him for that guy I talked to a week ago... "he's not here." "When will he be back?" "I don't know." "Where is the complete steering box that he gave me the quote on with the broken input shaft?" "That the only one we ever had here." "He said he had it in his hands" "What was his name?" .... no response. His loving response was, "look, we can banter back-and-forth all day here... if you don't want it, ship it back at your own expense and we'll refund your money." 3 more calls in the next week produced the same results.

These are the facts...
Make your own judgement.
Learn from the mistakes of others!!
(as a very knowledgeable person uses as a signature)

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

When I was looking to buy my L3450GST which had a broken transmission case, called around found several, so I bought the tractor, after getting it home I call to order the transmission case, several said sorry we really don't have one, one said sure we have several, paid for it and waited for it to arrive after 2 weeks I called back to find out where it was, oh we're sorry they were all broken.
took another week to get a refund from them, they even tried to charge me a restocking fee!

Some parts people need to be taken out a staked to an anthill and covered in honey and a live video feed to the other parts people with the warning they are next if they screw up!

Too bad you don't remember the name of the guy at Farmland Tractor Supply they are not that far from me and I have stakes, rope and honey ready to go!
Awww what the heck, well just randomly select a few!

 

[Pau7220]

oh we're sorry they were all broken.

NIW, is this trans case that weak? Anything I should be careful of when using? Bought it with 2400 hours and appeared to be maintained as far as fluid changes and lubing. Everything else was fixed with bread bag twist ties, wrapping rags around leaks, baling twine holding FEL hydraulic hoses in place, bent FEL arm, fan blades broken, fan screen missing, etc. It took me about a month to get the machine where I wanted it... and without leaving puddles of fluid on the floor. Followed by the 2 steering box repairs. I still love the machine!

As far as the (salvage) parts guys, couldn't agree more on the anthill thing! 1st guy never gave me his name.

26 years running my own auto repair shop and the best parts people I have are both women! Manager and assistant both actually know what they're doing.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us all!
I'll help where I can.
Paul

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

NIW, is this trans case that weak?

No not at all, it was a very bad dealership mechanic that got ahold of it.
He forced two shafts into a coupling that had a roll pin stuck in the middle and popped the shaft out the front breaking the web and host of other parts.
I was luck enough to find a local shop that was very skilled in welding cast, they did such a good job that all the parts slid right into place without any force!

26 years running my own auto repair shop and the best parts people I have are both women! Manager and assistant both actually know what they're doing.

I too have an excellent female auto parts manager, she runs circles around the guys.