Water Softener

[Stmar]

I assume quite a few of the forum members live in rural areas and have a private well for their water source. We have a lot of minerals/iron in our water so we treat it with a water softener, just went to a Hellenbrand upgraded softener and filter system. I am still getting a lot of red deposits in the sinks and bathtub/shower. I guess I need to up the grains and shorten the regens, but does anyone have any other ideas? It is a demand type softener and we use very little water compared to the normal household.

 

[mendonsy]

Well ... the red is definitely iron so the softener isn't taking the iron out. I'm not familiar with that brand of softener, but in general the only thing you can do to get rid of more iron is exactly what you suggested.

 

[dirtydeed]

If its Iron, you need to install a whole house filter. Cartridge type, or sand filter.

 

[Stmar]

If its Iron, you need to install a whole house filter. Cartridge type, or sand filter.

Sorry forgot to mention that we have a filter before the softener, it is also upgraded from the one we had, old one had 10" cartridges and the new one is 20". I just changed the filter cartridge and it did not look too bad. We also have a reverse osmosis unit for our drinking water, additional faucet on the kitchen sink.

 

[mickeyd]

Did it just start leaving iron or has it always left it?

If it just recently start leaving iron in the water, then you need to use an iron cleaner to clean the resin.

If it has left iron since day 1, then the control settings are wrong.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Does any of your system include one of these?
As a standard softener does swat to filter iron out.
And a standard cartridge filter, no matter the size of micron level, will also do swat to remove the iron.

https://www.hellenbrand.com/product/residential/iron-water-filtration

 

[Stmar]

It is the Promate 6 and it has a reservoir that you put a liquid iron out supplement. It has left stains all along but seems to be worse now. I reset it to 90 grains and minimum 5 day regen. I think I will up it to 95 or 100 and put it on a 3 or 4 day regen cycle. My old system regened every other day.
In the mean time what would be a good cleaning product to get stubborn stains out?

 

[William1]

As I understand it, to remove iron requires air injection. Seems the iron particles are so small they pass through filters. But injecting air, cause the particles to form iron oxide (rust) which is significantly larger and easily trapped by a filter.
A water softener just changes the Ph, it does not remove anything. A filter captures what ever particle size it is rated for.
My toilets have stains, a bit of iron and a bit of copper. But it is minimal and after 20 years, so I do not worry about the minerals.
I use a soda ash injection system for Ph (no salts!) and a 'Big Blue' filter to get the "chuncks' out. I can go a year or more on a single filter. Just two of us in the house. A neighbors well, he has to change his filter every month.. I think he had a poorly made well. Mine is very shallow, less than 20'. But I have awesome water table. Even in a drought, the well has stayed full.

 

[William1]

It is the Promate 6 and it has a reservoir that you put a liquid iron out supplement. It has left stains all along but seems to be worse now. I reset it to 90 grains and minimum 5 day regen. I think I will up it to 95 or 100 and put it on a 3 or 4 day regen cycle. My old system regened every other day.
In the mean time what would be a good cleaning product to get stubborn stains out?

I've tried straight muratic acid (nasty stuff) no luck. If my wife ever decides it bothers her, I'll hire a pro or just replace the fixtures.

 

[bearbait]

We add a bit of iron out to the salt as we put it in the softener, seems to work well and you can pick it up just about anywhere.

http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/s...gclsrc=aw.ds&dclid=CKLTssazptoCFci7swodVeEJ9Q

 

[RCW]

Been away from it long while, but not sure you have a conventional softener there. It does have a softener salt day tank?

A normal softener uses ion exchange in resin media. Calcium, magnesium, iron and manganese are exchanged with sodium. Periodically, the system backwashes the crud out, and rejuvenates the media with fresh sodium (softener salt). Iron is a challenge for a softener, since it can be a +2 or +3 ion - so 3 sodium +1 ions are needed for a single +3 iron.

This uses an ozone oxidation of the iron, in place of chlorination. Ozone (O3) is a strong oxidant. Changes oxidation state of the iron to make it easier to remove. I would occasionally recommend pellet chlorination directly into a well to help with iron under same principle - would precipitate some out in the well before it gets to the house.

Ozonation was a new technology years ago, so I didn't have much experience with it.

Where is the ozone injected into the water? Guessing it gets ozonated first, then goes through a conventional softener next, or other filter of sort?

Wondering if treatment time is too short between hitting it with ozone and the removal/filter/softener?

Or, your iron concentration such that it is not taking the iron out effectively, and it continues to (rust) in the piping after the treatment system?

Iron (red) and manganese (black) are pretty common 'round these parts. They can be a challenge to control without fancy chemical treatments, which I don't suggest either.

Keep tabs on your control adjustments, and see if it does improve. This system should do better than a regular softener.

I dealt with a village water system that used polyphosphate for Fe/Mn. ~200 gallons per minute were treated. Phosphate would bind (chelate) it up so it couldn't oxidate. Didn't work at first. Realized didn't have adequate mix/reaction time before it hit system turbulence, and would still turn brown. After moving treatment point further away - had more time, and worked.

 

[sheepfarmer]

We have a lot of iron, and I have rented s system from Culligan to try, and like it. Two tanks two regens, I know seems like a pattern , one bubbles air through and the other has some kind of resin bed that regens with salt.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

In the mean time what would be a good cleaning product to get stubborn stains out?

Home Depot, ZEP Calcium, lime, and rust remover, Use gloves and wipe it on wail a little bit and rinse off.

Your system might just need a complete flush done to it.

 

[Tughill Tom]

It is the Promate 6 and it has a reservoir that you put a liquid iron out supplement. It has left stains all along but seems to be worse now. I reset it to 90 grains and minimum 5 day regen. I think I will up it to 95 or 100 and put it on a 3 or 4 day regen cycle. My old system regened every other day.
In the mean time what would be a good cleaning product to get stubborn stains out?

CLR will remove the stains

 

[Stmar]

We add a bit of iron out to the salt as we put it in the softener, seems to work well and you can pick it up just about anywhere.

This system has a reservoir for iron out product, it is liquid and is administered with the regen. I keep it full. Hopefully it will do better when I up the grains and I think I will put the regen to 3 days.
Thanks for all the input.

 

[RCW]

This system has a reservoir for iron out product, it is liquid and is administered with the regen. I keep it full. Hopefully it will do better when I up the grains and I think I will put the regen to 3 days.
Thanks for all the input.

Does it take softener salt in addition to the Iron Out Reservoir?

I think it may be a matter of adjusting, but still trying to figure out how your system works.

Sorry for the long dissertation on water treatment, but I used to be a Health Department regulator for public water systems.

Dealt with a bunch of public systems 20 years ago, was a certified Water Plant Operator, and used to be a resource for folks having troubles with their house wells...... Was hoping it would also help you understand was the system was doing.

 

[Stmar]

Yes it takes salt, has a salt barrel and the iron out reservoir is in the barrel and works with the salt during regen.

 

[William1]

Wow, I've learned a lot about this stuff. LOL, more than I wanted to!

How durable are these systems? How many years can a person reasonably expect them to last? I understand that time and water volume are deciding factors. So figure on a two person home. Is base water quality also a significant issue with longevity?

 

[Stmar]

My last water softener lasted about 20 years.
I upped the grains from 90 to 100 and reduced the regen days from 5 to 3. It regened last night but I went ahead and did another one today. Everything I read about the ProMate 6 says to do a regen to clean the resin. I don't know whether I took too big a swing at it with increasing grains by 10 but I can always back off a bit. RCW, how does that sound to you, too much not enough?
Thanks for all the input.

 

[Stmar]

Learning more than I expected. Anybody use Res-Up, a brand of iron out, in their softener or another brand? Reason I ask is that the only place that sells the Res-Up is Culligan and ther are other brands at Menards so I am looking at options.