m5500 locked

[ezed]

My m5500 is locked. It has been sitting idle for a few months and now will not turn. I have disconnected external hydraulic pump and applied 36" wrench in effort to break loose --- no luck. I removed starter to see if it was locked. No problem with starter and still could not turn engine with wrench with starter off. I have removed injectors and inserted mixture of atf and acetone. No improvement after 3 days. I have jacked up rear and rocked the tires --- still no change.
The only problems I have had in the past was rusty starter that required clean out of water and rust and a pto clutch that would not disengage. Obvious water getting into clutch/starter/flywheel area due to stuck pto and rusty starter.

Anyone know of anything else that would lock engine?
would 3pt hydraulic pump cause this issue?
Would Pto or engine clutch sticking cause this problem?

I am stumped and would appreciate any suggestions.

thanks

 

[Kubota Newbie]

Does motor turn with wrench at all (even just a little) or is it stuck tight?
Yes turns a little - tranny stuck in two gears?
No stuck tight - somehow water probably got in cyl and stuck the rings.
Any water in oil pan? Pull plug to check, water will come out first.
Exhaust uncovered?
No
Headgasket? - check fluid level in radiator.

Will rear wheels turn with clutch pushed in?
Wheels turn with gear selectors in neutral?

If there's water in a cyl then your penetrating oil ever gets to the stuck rings, it'll just float on top. Try sticking a chunk of 1/8 inch steel brake line on your air hose and seeing if you can blow water out the injector holes.

 

[D2Cat]

If you can determine if there is water on the pistons would help. If there is no water on the pistons I would guess you have a seized clutch. Perhaps a freeze plug has popped out on the back side of the block about the clutch.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

would 3pt hydraulic pump cause this issue?
Would Pto or engine clutch sticking cause this problem?

You've had problem in the past with the clutch getting water in it so that's what I'm thinking is that the clutch is stuck, but if that's the case putting the tractor in neutral should eliminate the "lock up" issues.
Have you taken the fan belt off, I've seen one case where the water pump shaft had seized and the motor would not turn.

 

[Dave_eng]

Recently I had a friend with a car engine that would not turn even with a long bar. Strangely, when the engine was turned in reverse it would rotate.

The alternator pulley is a new design with a one way clutch. The alternator bearing seized solid from sitting. Trying to rotate the engine in the normal direction engaged the one way clutch and the serpentine belt was strong enough that there was no slippage.

I am not suggesting this is the cause of the current problem and the remove the belt test suggested by NIW would take care of this condition.

Readers may find this youtube video explaining this technology interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrFcPqZuO3A

Dave

 

[Tx Jim]

If you can determine if there is water on the pistons would help. If there is no water on the pistons I would guess you have a seized clutch. Perhaps a freeze plug has popped out on the back side of the block about the clutch.

Please explain ""if trans is in neutral as it should be for starting"" how a seized clutch could stop engine from rotating. I normally start my M7040 with reverser in neutral & traction clutch engaged.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Please explain ""if trans is in neutral as it should be for starting"" how a seized clutch could stop engine from rotating. I normally start my M7040 with reverser in neutral & traction clutch engaged.

On some of the older models the tolerance between the clutch disk, pressure plate, flywheel and the clutch housing are so tight that any debris can cause them to bind right up, I've seen a couple that you would have swore the motor was sized, cleaned them up and away it went.

 

[D2Cat]

Jim, I was thinking of this tractor. In most cases you'd be correct, the engine should turn over. This particular tractor had the freeze plug ejected just above the clutch housing, which cause this RUST.

 

[Kubota Newbie]

I don't believe the D3000-A motor in the M5500 has a freeze plug into the water jacket in the bell housing. A soft plug that covers the camshaft bore - yes. Freeze plug into the water jacket? Don't think so.
If you remove the throw-out bearing greasing/inspection plate you should be able to see if things are mucked up in the bell housing.

 

[Tx Jim]

Jim, I was thinking of this tractor. In most cases you'd be correct, the engine should turn over. This particular tractor had the freeze plug ejected just above the clutch housing, which cause this RUST.

Owner of tractor in your photos must have been utilizing water only IE no antifreeze in engine cooling system to create that amount of rust/corrosion.

 

[D2Cat]

Jim, the owner of the tractor was a contractor and upon his death his sons/grandsons took over according to the guy who was renting the building from the widow. The family members abused every piece of equipment the man had. When the IRS came looking to get settled up the widow asked the tenant to haul all the "stuff laying around" to the scrapper. He had enough foresight to offer it for sale first.

I bought it off of CL with a 5' finish mower. It also had a freeze plug totally missing and a cracked oil pan. I'm sure they kept diluting the antifreeze with water until it was all water. The water pump was bad and probably the start of all the neglect.

 

[ezed]

Still no movement. I will take off inspection cover as suggested by Kubota newbie to see what is going on in the clutch housing. I know for a fact that pto clutch is stuck. Please keep those suggestions coming. I am not looking forward to pulling the head and splitting the tractor.

 

[Dave_eng]

I went looking for parts illustrations for a M5500.
I find the M5500 on Tractordata.com
Kubota Canada does not list that model
Here is the response on the Messick's site.

Am I not understanding this model?

I suggest the easiest test to do right now is to pressure test the cooling system.

If it wont hold pressure and you don't see obvious external leaks, then you are likely looking at very serious engine repairs.

Blocks which have had coolant freeze have visible external damage and also internal damage. The "frost plugs," are not there to protect against freezing coolant damage but are part of the casting process when manufacturing the block.

Dave

 

[ezed]

Inspection of clutch via clutch release viewing plate was a non event. Little rusty however it all looks normal. Engine still seized after about a week of atf/acetone treatment. Sure hope something changes soon or head will be removed. Any suggestions???

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Pull the head and Pull the pan, that will let you see just about everything you need to see.

 

[D2Cat]

I'd pull the head first. You may very well see your problem. If it's a head gasket problem, then you may be able to drain the oil from the pan, and after replacing oil, continue....unless you think you spun a bearing.