L3250 noisy valves more than a simple lash adjustment

J

J03bota

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L3250DT
Nov 28, 2016
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Southern Seacoast New Hampshire
Down to one of the last issues with my rebuilt engine. I cannot get the ticking sound out of my engine despite adjusting the Lash to 0.007in.
The engine also generates vibration after about 1500 RPMs. Was hoping that both these problems would be less after the rebuild but they never went away. I adjusted the valve lash this way. Could you please confirm that I am doing this right:
1342
4213
When both the intake valve and exhaust valves are moving on cylinder 1 indicating end of exhaust start of intake I can adjust lash on the intake and exhaust valves on cylinder 4.
When both valves are moving on cylinder 2 I can adjust both valves on cylinder 3 and when both valves are moving on cylinder 3 I can adjust 2 and when both valves are moving on cylinder 4 I can adjust 1.
I have very little blow by coming out of the blow by tube and the tractor is still blowing Blue Smoke. Not that much especially if I give the tractor a workout in my yard but it is still puffing smoke. I have JD 10W30 brake in oil in the tractor and will be leaving it in for a while
Unless you guys determine that I am not adjusting my valves correctly I am afraid that I might be running on low oil pressure.
I did not change out my oil pump wondering if the v1902DIA engine is prone to this.
I do not have and oil pressure gauge. Will be buy a quality stainless 3 gauge kit so I can monitor oil pressure voltage and temperature
I did see that someone did and oil pressure gauge on Ott
And as usual thank you very much for any comments, concerns or ideas you may have
 
North Idaho Wolfman

North Idaho Wolfman

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What did you do to the motor on the rebuild?
What parts and procedures?

2 things I would do right away:
Check PSI of the oil
Check each of the cylinders compression readings.
 
85Hokie

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I too would look at the oil pressure.....did you plastigauge bearings when rebuilding?
 
J

J03bota

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Had machine shop rebuild the head using valve train kit from Kumar Brothers. Also replaced the pushrods. tappets were in Spec and left the rocker arm assembly alone.
Had machine shop bore and hone the cylinder walls to oversize Pistons/rings and new pins purchased from Kumar Brothers. adjusted and installed the new oversized rings with ring gaps and gap offset set per the specifications. Only 2 rings needs filing.
Had the crankshaft machined and main bearing no.1 welded and machined back to std bearing dimension. All of the other main bearings including connecting rod bearings were machined to 0.2mm. Complete metal kit purchased at Kuma brother's
New thermostat new water pipes all new sensors new updated fuel filter assembly, new gas lines new glow plugs new fuel injectors new water pump new radiator fan bushings new seals of course new throttle and Governor Springs and many other things I measured the 2 cams and they were all well within spec - but I did not replace the oil pump because it looked brand-new to me and I made sure the oil gear was installed in the correct orientation. No leaks timing sounds good power appears to be okay also installed a Kubota brand block heater worth its weight in gold, new alternator as well. Vibration might be caused by lack of engine mount isolators. Engine is hard mounted right to the frame
- If I can get some help ordering an oil gauge with the correct fittings for my v1902 d i engine I'll order it tomorrow. Will order copper/ brass lines as well
Thank you very much.
 
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D

D2Cat

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I think 85Hokie had a thread about adding an oil pressure gauge a while back. It was on a B7100, but it's the same thing.

On the oil sending unit just but a "t" in there and come off of that for the gauge. You still have the original oil light that way.
 
85Hokie

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D2Cat said:
I think 85Hokie had a thread about adding an oil pressure gauge a while back. It was on a B7100, but it's the same thing.

On the oil sending unit just but a "t" in there and come off of that for the gauge. You still have the original oil light that way.
Click to expand...
Those damn adapters cost more than the whole setup:eek: Getting something to fit the 1/8" BSP fitting and convert it back to 1/8" NPT is not cheap and somewhat hard to find!:)

then again, with enough Teflon tape......that 27 tpi fits into the 28 tpi just fine.....yeah....I said it!:D
 
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rbargeron

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It's true slightly mismatched threads will hold engine oil pressure - it rarely gets above 80 psi. Just don't get in the habit - plumbing for hydraulic pressure, for instance, often needs to be safe for 40 times that.

Back on the subject of valve adjustment, each cam lobe is mostly circular with the lobe sticking up for part of it. Valve clearance is set when the lifter is on the base circle. The WSM publishes a couple engine positions where certain valves are at the base circle, but any valve can be adjusted anywhere on its lobe's base circle. Clearances can be checked by turning the engine over by hand and feeling the "rattle" of each valve. If any has enough clearance to sound loud, it will show in the wiggle test.

There are too many possible reasons for ticking for anybody here to know what's causing it. Valve adjustment is one factor, but tightness of the valve seats, fit of the guides, fit of the rockers on the shaft, condition of cam bearings, and many other things unrelated to the valves. Same goes for blue smoke and vibration.

As Wolfman suggests, compression testing and oil pressure readings under various conditions may give more clues. Good luck, Dick B
 
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J

J03bota

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L3250DT
Nov 28, 2016
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16
Southern Seacoast New Hampshire
rbargeron said:
Back on the subject of valve adjustment, each cam lobe is mostly circular with the lobe sticking up for part of it. Valve clearance is set when the lifter is on the base circle. The WSM publishes a couple engine positions where certain valves are at the base circle, but any valve can be adjusted anywhere on its lobe's base circle.

Clearances can be checked by turning the engine over by hand and feeling the "rattle" of each valve. If any has enough clearance to sound loud, it will show in the wiggle test.
Click to expand...
Wow Dick B, Great explanation. Makes perfect sense. Will try this for sure. I don't expect a lash adjustment to fix everything but I'm willing to bet the lash across the board is still too loose.

It is very strange to me that the engine ticking and vibration sounds about the same as it did with the previous engine parts???? Hello, the crankshaft alone was wobbling for god sakes - and the head was not professionally serviced by the previous owner (ie: valves were not machined). It seems to me that it must be something else. The cams are in spec. the head was completely professionally rebuilt. I installed new push rods only. The rocker arms and tappets were not changed. Fuel pump not services.

** Here's something that I thought was very interesting (to me anyway):
Same results regardless if before or after the rebuild: Every time I add oil into the engine - the ticking noise stops for that day. My interpretation is that the valves get coated and engine behave perfectly until the oil heats up (thins out) then overnight drains back down into the pan. Then next time I start the tractor the ticking is back and does not get quieter after warming up. If anything it get noisier as it heats up? I bet if I took the head cover off and started tractor I would not see enough squirting oil.

So tomorrow we are getting a foot+ of snow (in NH) so I will coat it up (BTW: not overfilling the oil pan) and keep my fingers crossed that I'm not damaging anything.

Thank you all very much.
Joe
 
rbargeron

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J03bota said:
........the head was completely professionally rebuilt. I installed new push rods only. The rocker arms and tappets were not changed........ ....... Every time I add oil into the engine - the ticking noise stops for that day. ........Then next time I start the tractor the ticking is back ....... I bet if I took the head cover off and started tractor I would not see enough squirting oil.
Click to expand...
If the rocker shaft isn't getting oil was the oil-flow o-ring in the head gasket replaced/installed?

Were the tappet fits in their bore clearances measured? Loose tappets could quiet down with oil poured in, and get noisier as it drained down through the clearance.

During the head rebuild were new valve guides installed? Was there any report of their condition or of the clearances as-found or as-left? Were new valve seals installed? These factors would be important to noise - and blue smoke too.

Its true that when oil is poured in it takes a little while to flow down into the pan, and some might "pond up" at the valve seals. But the valve guides would need to be pretty loose for it to affect the noise made by the engine.

Several unanswered questions about the "rebuild" work done by others, any of which could be important. Dick B
 
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J

J03bota

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Equipment
L3250DT
Nov 28, 2016
105
0
16
Southern Seacoast New Hampshire
rbargeron said:
If the rocker shaft isn't getting oil was the oil-flow o-ring in the head gasket replaced/installed?

Were the tappet fits in their bore clearances measured? Loose tappets could quiet down with oil poured in, and get noisier as it drained down through the clearance.

During the head rebuild were new valve guides installed? Was there any report of their condition or of the clearances as-found or as-left? Were new valve seals installed? These factors would be important to noise - and blue smoke too.

Its true that when oil is poured in it takes a little while to flow down into the pan, and some might "pond up" at the valve seals. But the valve guides would need to be pretty loose for it to affect the noise made by the engine.

Several unanswered questions about the "rebuild" work done by others, any of which could be important. Dick B
Click to expand...
--- Yes, new Oil O-Ring.
Were the tappet fits in their bore clearances measured?
--- No but I could not detect any play when I re-installed them
During the head rebuild were new valve guides installed?
--- Yes
Was there any report of their condition or of the clearances as-found or as-left?
--- No Issues reported back to me.
Were new valve seals installed?
--- Yes
These factors would be important to noise - and blue smoke too.

--- I gave the machine shop owner a full value train kit and when they were done he showed me the head and it looked liked like it was brand new. He showed me how they machine the values and head but that was it.
- The owner/family could have pulled the wool over my eyes (since I am inexperienced) but the machine shop is the best one around. I did my research before picking them. They are a big shop and were very busy and had my engine for months. He insisted I give him all my new parts before he did anything. I.E.: He made sure the new bearings, pins, pistons/rings I had were right size. He was very thorough.

Thank you very much Dick. Saturday I am getting the gauge parts. I hope to install the gauge, read compression and re-adjust the lash by the end of the day.
I hope the noise is head parts related and not oil pump related - I dread the idea of having to take 1/2 the tractor apart again
 
rbargeron

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The machine shop may well have someone who can listen to and observe the engine ticking and smoking and offer some ideas on what's going on. Having worked on it they would likely have an interest in seeing it through to a good outcome. Good luck, Dick B
 
R

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rbargeron said:
The machine shop may well have someone who can listen to and observe the engine ticking and smoking and offer some ideas on what's going on.
Click to expand...
Joe -

Dick has a great idea.

Take a good short video/audio with your phone/tablet, show that to the shop with the premise you're just looking for advice.

Bet if the noises are captured well in the video/audio, you'll get some attention/help from them. Like Dick said, they want to see it right also.

Just don't know if the phone would capture the sounds adequately.

Good luck!
 
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D

D2Cat

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My approach with the machine shop would be a bit different. Call the person who insisted on all the parts being there you mentioned. He's obviously thinking ahead and thorough. Tell him you appreciate his attention to details.

Explain your situation with him and ask him if he'd take a minute to listen to the engine to see if he could detect something you're not able to. Make sure to let him know you're not trying to blame him/his shop for any short comings, you just need a professionals helpful ear.

Then if at all possible, take the tractor to him so he can hear it first hand. If not, a video would be a distant second.

Good luck.
 
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