L3250 noisy valves more than a simple lash adjustment

J03bota

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L3250DT
Nov 28, 2016
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Southern Seacoast New Hampshire
A week ago in post #1 of this thread the valve noise and smoking were still there despite all the parts replaced. But in post #33 the engine is now sounding normal and smoking has nearly gone away?
Very good catch mr. B. The noise is still there but I have to admit it's smoking much less now I think the Rings are beginning to settle in. After the end of plowing 15 in of snow last week I did notice that it was barely smoking. I'm not sure what color the smoke is sometimes it looks gray other times blue depending on the background but much less now
I started the tractor the other day to test the new oil gauge and I was able to stay with the tractor Under the Tent with front side open and not be totally exfixiated. Could never do that before that's remarkable
 

J03bota

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L3250DT
Nov 28, 2016
105
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Southern Seacoast New Hampshire
When trying to identify the location of a noise, I find a piece of rubber gas line a great tool. Use it as a stethoscope. If you suspect any exhaust leak start with the ear end away from your ear a bit as there may be air, or fumes coming out an exhaust problem and you don't need to subject your ear to pressure from a leaking joint or cracked manifold.

I would try this with the valve cover removed moving from valve to valve.

To others who know this engine, is there a pcv valve or EGR valve that could be making nose?

Dave
I will. Great suggestion
Thank you
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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Quit messing around and pull the valve cover and check for oil movement.
If it's not getting oil to the top end your going to destroy the valve train! :(

An oil pressure test will not show this condition as your testing the pressure before the head. :eek:

One thing that came to mind in a conversation with another member is that if the oil pipe to the head is plugged, or as I've seen on one occasion, been replaced with a solid pin, this causes you to not get oil to the top end and damage will ensue. ;)
 
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J03bota

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Nov 28, 2016
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Southern Seacoast New Hampshire
When you changed your oil, did it seem thin and smell of diesel? Was it over full? You say it quiets down the day you change the oil then gets noisier. I am wondering if one of the injectors is leaking fuel thinning down the oil. Another spot diesel can get in is a leaking shaft seal on injection pump or the fuel lift pump going bad. 30W oil is a little thin for older Diesel engines. Usually you use a 40W like 15-40W or 5-40W.
Was convinced this was my problem early on.
Thinning out of the oil made sense. I have not been able to smell fuel in my oil and the oil level never changes
 

J03bota

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L3250DT
Nov 28, 2016
105
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Southern Seacoast New Hampshire
Ok, one thing I want to mention is to forget about your method of adjusting valve clearance. Use the EOIC method. I did not see if anyone had suggested it or if there was a fix yet, but I wanted to take the opportunity to discuss Kubota's method and the EOIC method. While Kubota's method isn't too terribly hard to figure out, the EOIC is MUCH simpler. EOIC stands for exhaust opening, intake closing. Meaning this: When the exhaust valve just begins to open, adjust that cylinder's intake valve(s). Then when the intake valve is almost closed, adjust that cylinder's intake valve(s). That method saves a lot of time and aggravation and is so easy that a cave man can do it. I do it this way on V8 stuff, specifically on the race cars, as it's MUCH quicker-and easier-than the TDC method.

On lawn equipment and some ATV stuff, you can't really set them via TDC because of the automatic decompression mechanism that holds the valve open slightly near TDC. On those, you have to rotate the engine about 10-20 degrees of crank rotation past TDC and check them. Or use EOIC which is what I do and it seems to confuse everyone whom I've tried to teach it to.
I saw this method on youtube. Will try it and see if the gap is any looser than my normal approach
 

J03bota

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L3250DT
Nov 28, 2016
105
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Southern Seacoast New Hampshire
Spent the day working on the tractor have 2 MPEG videos that I could post but MPEG is not on the list of acceptable file types
Tried to perform a compression test using my Junkie compression tester that can not hold pressure and was only getting about 325 PSI per cylinder. adjusted valve lash two different ways using the EOIC method and rocker method. When done rechecked compression same results.
Started the tractor with the head cover removed and observed a very dry running rocker arm assembly. I have a 300 megabyte video showing the results. I have a second video showing the results after soaking the rocker arm assembly push rods valves tappets with oil noise sounded the same to me. Maybe the oil just needed to soak in to the cracks better. Will start it again tomorrow to see if it's any quieter
After seeing the dry running rocker arm assembly and knowing that this very same problem existed before I rebuilt the engine I believe I know what the problem is when the Machine Shop had my engine parts the owner called me and told me that there was a pretty big hole that had been patched just to the upper left of the dipstick apparently when the original owner spun a bearing piston Rod number 1 also went through the side of the engine. he said the good news is it did not touch anything it missed everything but I am willing to bet it damaged the oil passageway leading to the Head
 
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Dave_eng

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so I'll have to come up with a way of pumping oil from the oil pan back up into the head
Old tractor engines I knew usually used external lines to bridge the head gasket.

A hole would be drilled into a oil gallery in the block and threaded to accept an elbow.

Same in the head.

Your challenge to do that would be blocking the gallery between the block and head.

It would cost you some work and a head gasket but then you would see where the galleries are and block then + provide access to the outside of the engine.

1/4" copper line delivered the oil.

Is it possible the head gasket used was not the correct one and the passage is restricted or blocked?

Dave
 

200mph

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How many hours has the engine been running with no oil flowing to the valve train? When disassembling the head to find/confirm the oil blockage issue, it might be a good idea to disassemble the heads and verify the valve guides and other drivetrain components are still within specifications.
 

J03bota

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L3250DT
Nov 28, 2016
105
0
16
Southern Seacoast New Hampshire
Is it possible the head gasket used was not the correct one and the passage is restricted or blocked? Dave
anything's possible but I did pay extra attention around the oil port and made absolutely sure the O-ring was in place
When I removed the head a year ago during the rebuild I noticed that the previous owner did a good job with the gasket and o-ring as well. That's what leads me to believe that the port is damaged
 

J03bota

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L3250DT
Nov 28, 2016
105
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Southern Seacoast New Hampshire
How many hours has the engine been running with no oil flowing to the valve train? When disassembling the head to find/confirm the oil blockage issue, it might be a good idea to disassemble the heads and verify the valve guides and other drivetrain components are still within specifications.
About 6 hours. Plenty of time to kill seals.
 

J03bota

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L3250DT
Nov 28, 2016
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Southern Seacoast New Hampshire
Not sure if I could do this but what I could try to do is is take the rocker assembly off and run a wire through the head to the block and make sure there's no port blockage if it's a straight shot that is
 

J03bota

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L3250DT
Nov 28, 2016
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Southern Seacoast New Hampshire
would like to do is come up with a way of using an external pump to feed oil from the pan back up to the head. Maybe tap right off the oil drain plug. I am thinking that I could modify the cylinder head cover in various places so that the pump sprays oil throughout but I'm not going to take the engine block apart right now. Would also modified the head if needed
 

JeffL

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Oiling the rockers from the outside might not get oil where it is needed most. Rocker assemblies are designed to oil thru the rocker shaft to the rocker bushing. Drillings in the rocker and oil passing thru the bushing is slung to all parts of the valve train. The rocker bushing is a high friction pivot as the joint never reaches a hydrodynamic state as main and rod bearings do. A steady supply of oil is critical to long life. External oil may not reach deep enough to cool and lube these bushings. Jeff
 

JeffL

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The external oiling mods described are fairly elaborate compared to the by-pass line suggested. I have installed these on older push rod engines with good success. In some cases it is considered a performance mod when heavy springs and high lift cams are installed.
Every installation I made used existing plugged cross drillings to go from the main oil gallery in the block to the oil feed in the head. Removed the plugs installed 90 deg compression fittings with a 1/8" copper feed line between.
Jeff
 

eserv

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Worn bushings in the idler gear in the timing gears can allow enough oil to escape that the rockers get little or no oil. Usually this is accompanied by low oil pressure when hot but if all the rest of the engine is tight with new bearings etc. it might not!
 

JeffL

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Jan 8, 2016
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I wasn't familiar with your engine so I spent a couple of minutes on Kubota Illustrated parts and think I see a plugged cross drilling on the lower front exhaust side you could feed oil to the head without machining. Also looks like there are a total of four drillings with three 90 deg intersections to make a path from the head gasket to the rocket shaft pedestal. It is normal practice to hot tank and clean all oil passages during a rebuild. With the history of this engine I would run a drill bit, by hand, into all four passages. If you have blockage the bit will clean it out. A second plug is behind the Thermostat flange. This passage connects the drilling from the exhaust side to the drilling down from the rocker pedestal boss.
Please confirm my assumptions before you plumb any oil lines!

Most likely a lack of oil to the top end is a result of a worn component between the main gallery and head; bleeding off excess oil. This was the case every time I installed a bypass line. At this point the check for open passages is due diligent.
Jeff
 

J03bota

Member

Equipment
L3250DT
Nov 28, 2016
105
0
16
Southern Seacoast New Hampshire
I wasn't familiar with your engine so I spent a couple of minutes on Kubota Illustrated parts and think I see a plugged cross drilling on the lower front exhaust side you could feed oil to the head without machining. Also looks like there are a total of four drillings with three 90 deg intersections to make a path from the head gasket to the rocket shaft pedestal. It is normal practice to hot tank and clean all oil passages during a rebuild. With the history of this engine I would run a drill bit, by hand, into all four passages. If you have blockage the bit will clean it out. A second plug is behind the Thermostat flange. This passage connects the drilling from the exhaust side to the drilling down from the rocker pedestal boss.
Please confirm my assumptions before you plumb any oil lines!

Most likely a lack of oil to the top end is a result of a worn component between the main gallery and head; bleeding off excess oil. This was the case every time I installed a bypass line. At this point the check for open passages is due diligent.
Jeff
Jeff Really? Where are you finding this information. sounds like really good news if I can understand what you are saying and not make any mistakes
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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With a repair done like that, I really wonder where else oil is not getting to? :eek: