Kubota Bagger no suction

[Irod]

New guy here with a MF GC1705, sorry, I like red better
So here's my problem. I purchased a used Kubota grass catcher model GCK60-30B and installed it on the Massey with a bit of modification. I've used the grass catcher several times, but I noticed it doesn't have a lot of suction. I'm guessing the grass is being blown into the bagger by the mower. I took the hose of the impeller housing and noticed a lot of grass around the blower. I started it up and grass was blowing out of the housing and not up into the bagger. I held a rag by the intake and it has a little suction but not much. I'm running the engine at the 540 rpm on the tach. Any ideas why I have no suction? Here are some pics.

 

[100 td]

Is the direction of rotation of the blower fan correct? I could be wrong but I expect it will blow in both directions with that impeller design, albeit one way far better than the other. Do the belts need to be crossed for correct rotation? Are the belts slipping?
Is the chute full, are the bags clean to allow airflow through them, or is the air exit from the bag area clear, where ever it is?

 

[MadMax31]

You are running mid and rear PTO at the same time?

 

[Irod]

100 td - confirmed correct rotation, belt is tight and not slipping, and chute isn't plugged.
MadMax31 - yes, rear and mid pto same time.
I assumed these grass catchers have similar suction to an engine powered unit or am I wrong?

 

[Al T]

Baggers have significant suction. Try this sequence.

 

[Irod]

Baggers have significant suction. Try this sequence.

Everything checks out ok. Still doesn't have a lot of suction but the exhaust side blows like a jet engine I tried picking up some cut grass without the mower running, but it wouldn't suck it up. I was hoping this would work like the Sears lawn vac I have, but it doesn't look like it will work.
Thanks for the help

 

[tinkerwitheverything]

I have the same blower , I bought it used when I still had my MF GC2300 and used it on the MF without any problems. Is your impeller tight on the shaft [not slipping under load] I never had any problems with mine unless picking really wet or heavy grass. used mine mostly for picking leaves in the fall. I did have some problems when ever a stick,branch would get stuck inside the pickup tube or the outlet side. It works the same on my Kubota now. One other thing to make sure is that your bags are letting out the air.If you don't have the proper bags its not going to let the air out as fast as it needs tf course air comming in needs to beable to get out??? Kinda wondering what your using for the dischage chute on the mower deck.I used the kubota one on mine with a bit of rubber added in around where it fits the mower deck to make sure the suction was pulling from under the deck.

 

[1970cs]

Ok lets see more of the deck area like the boot and tubing.
Baffle kit installed?
What cant is your deck set at?
Your are 2 hours west of me, what has your rainfall been in the past month.
I have dumped out close 6 inches in the past two weeks (rain gauge)
What speed are you running?

Pat

 

[Irod]

tinkerwitheverything- The impeller is tight. I'm using the Kubota chute. I sprayed expanding foam around the boot and deck to seal as much as I can. I haven't had a chance to try it yet.
1970cs- 2 more pictures of the boot and tubing. Baffle kit? You mean that piece of metal in the boot that collects all the grass and plugs up - no, I took it out.
Cant is level. Rain, not much, maybe couple of inches, grass is brown. My lawn isn't anything special, just plain ole grass, bad dirt and some weeds. I cut grass in low range and slow down when needed.

So you guys that have this Bagger, are you telling me that you have a lot of suction at the deck, enough to suck up cut grass or leaves without the mower running?

So I was reading today on the internet about different types of lawn vacs. The article was saying that some vacs have a lot of suction at the hose end (Cyclone Rake) and others are designed as "helpers". The debris needs to be within a certain distance from the impeller and then it gets sucked up. Not sure if this is true or not but it seems to be the way mine works. Haven't given up on this just yet.

 

[GaryL]

The amount of suction for this unit is not like the cyclone rake, but still, definitely more powerful than what you are experiencing. I can rake leaves near the end of the chute and it will suck them in a shred them. Unless I mow too fast, it will always pull the grass up and out into the bag. Your impeller does look different than mine. I have included a couple of pics to have you compare closer. Maybe it was just the angle of your photo.

When you said you are running the rpm at rear 540 speed, is it near wide open? i do not have a tach, but I always mow at full engine speed. Any chance you have a two speed pto?

 

[GaryL]

On comparison of the two pics, the impellers look the same. I am thinking it has to be a speed thing for the impeller. That is the only thing that makes sense to me.

 

[1970cs]

You should run about 5 degree cant or nose down to create better suction. Same thing, most of our bagger kits for most manufacturers have to change the front baffles out for new and some even include hi-lift blades.

Pat

 

[Irod]

The amount of suction for this unit is not like the cyclone rake, but still, definitely more powerful than what you are experiencing. I can rake leaves near the end of the chute and it will suck them in a shred them. Unless I mow too fast, it will always pull the grass up and out into the bag. Your impeller does look different than mine. I have included a couple of pics to have you compare closer. Maybe it was just the angle of your photo.

When you said you are running the rpm at rear 540 speed, is it near wide open? i do not have a tach, but I always mow at full engine speed. Any chance you have a two speed pto?

Two speed pto??? I don't see anything to indicate that. There is a mark on the tach that indicates 540 rpm (see pic) I think the engine is running around 2,500 rpm's. There seems to be a lot of clearance between the housing and impeller, probably an inch or more. Is this normal? I'll try increasing the rpms and see what happens.

 

[tinkerwitheverything]

What I did with mine with the metal plate inside the chute was I moved it closer to the front of the the mower deck edge [approx 1" from the front] I also left those small vents open at the front of the chute. One other thing is I also put the piece inside the mower deck that comes with the blower.Not sure if you got that piece when you bought your blower. When I bought mine used it came with everything the mounts the deck baffle etc:. I'll try to find a pic of that front baffle that goes inside under the mower deck. so you can see what I'm talking about.
Went and took some pics of the baffle plates etc: The big orange plate [sort of orange] has been modified a bit.I cut out holes in the bottom and front to allow grass build up etc: to fall out rather then build up behind the plate and the mower deck . This plate allows the grass etc: to be thrown more backwards towards the chute rather then against the side of it.You can see how the plate that goes under the deck lines up with the one inside the chute. You can also see the two extra holes in the plastic deflector where I had mounted that plate closer to the front of it. Not sure if not having this done to yours is the problem your having or ???

 

[Irod]

What I did with mine with the metal plate inside the chute was I moved it closer to the front of the the mower deck edge [approx 1" from the front] I also left those small vents open at the front of the chute. One other thing is I also put the piece inside the mower deck that comes with the blower.Not sure if you got that piece when you bought your blower. When I bought mine used it came with everything the mounts the deck baffle etc:. I'll try to find a pic of that front baffle that goes inside under the mower deck. so you can see what I'm talking about.
Went and took some pics of the baffle plates etc: The big orange plate [sort of orange] has been modified a bit.I cut out holes in the bottom and front to allow grass build up etc: to fall out rather then build up behind the plate and the mower deck . This plate allows the grass etc: to be thrown more backwards towards the chute rather then against the side of it.You can see how the plate that goes under the deck lines up with the one inside the chute. You can also see the two extra holes in the plastic deflector where I had mounted that plate closer to the front of it. Not sure if not having this done to yours is the problem your having or ???

I took the metal plate out of the chute because grass was getting clogged between that and the holes in the front of the chute. I'll try your idea of moving the plate closer and take the tape of the holes. I got all the brackets and hardware, but I don't have anything that looks like the orange plate, mine is much smaller and I'm sure it won't fit becuase of the different brands.

 

[tinkerwitheverything]

The orange plate bolts underneath the deck.The piece with the bolt showing is more or less right in the middle of the decks discharge opening.I can't remeber if I used it on the massey.
I'll have to go and check my impeller and see what sort of clearance it has around the housing. Something seems odd there ??
By any chance did you look inside the discharge hose for any type of blockage.

 

[tinkerwitheverything]

went out and took a look at the clearance between the impeller and housing mine has less then 1/2" so if yours has over a 1" then more then likely this is your problem.

 

[Dave_eng]

I would suggest you make a home made manometer so you have some real numbers to help decide if performance could be better.

A 10' roll of small clear plastic tubing, some water, food dye and a ruler.

You insert one end of the plastic tube into a hole where it will be a snug fit on the suction side of the fan. The other end of the U is open to the atmosphere. You want the plastic tubing to make a good seal to the parts under suction of the fan..

When the fan is running, the water level in each leg of the U tube will be different. The fan suction in inches of water is the difference in inches between the level in each leg of the U.

If someone with a unit which is working well will take a measurement then you have a real number to compare yours to.

If you think your suction side is leaking air, take your first measurement close to the fan and then other measurements further away from the fan. If there is a big difference, you likely are loosing suction by air leaking in

Dave M7040

 

[Irod]

went out and took a look at the clearance between the impeller and housing mine has less then 1/2" so if yours has over a 1" then more then likely this is your problem.

I checked the clearance again and it is less than 1". It sure felt like a lot more when I was pulling grass out. I tried a little test yesterday to see if it would suck leaves. I removed the hose from the mower and put a small twig that had a bunch of leaves in front of the hose and they just sat there... I had to push the leaves a few inches into the tube before they were sucked up. Blow on your hand, that's what it feels like at the front of the tube. By comparison, my lawn vac will almost suck your glove off. I'm going to put an HVAC 8" to 6" reducer on the fan housing and see what happens.

 

[Irod]

Dave-I'll try your test on Saturday, looks interesting.