The PO on my L1500DT was starting it with ether. The glow plugs tested as an open circuit, so I replaced them, and it starts and runs just fine now. One of the articles I read suggested that starting with ether would cause premature ignition which would force combustion products back into the injectors when they open, causing them to become dirty. It seems to start and run just fine. When I crack the throttle, I get a puff of black smoke, and it will smoke a little under load, which seems normal to me for a tractor probably designed in the 60's and built in the 70's. Should I get the injectors cleaned anyway?
Startng fluid and injectors
- Thread starter bucktail
- Start date
armylifer
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I would say that your tractor is running as designed by your description. If the engine is running smoothly and making normal power, then you really don't need to do anything with the injectors.
One comment about starting an engine with ether, don't. In the very rare cases when I need an aid to start an engine (both gasoline and diesel), I use propane. I don't know what others say about using propane but in over 40 years of using it I have never experienced any damage to any of my engines. There are even propane injector kits on the market that increase engine power in diesel trucks.
One comment about starting an engine with ether, don't. In the very rare cases when I need an aid to start an engine (both gasoline and diesel), I use propane. I don't know what others say about using propane but in over 40 years of using it I have never experienced any damage to any of my engines. There are even propane injector kits on the market that increase engine power in diesel trucks.
Starting fluid can blow up the engine.
http://www.orangetractortalks.com/2009/02/trouble-starting-your-kubota-skip-the-starting-fluid/
And Imwould thonk the glow plug may ignite propane to soon?
http://www.orangetractortalks.com/2009/02/trouble-starting-your-kubota-skip-the-starting-fluid/
And Imwould thonk the glow plug may ignite propane to soon?
armylifer
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I don't use the glow plug to start it when using propane. As I said in my earlier post, I have done this for over 40 years and I never had a problem yet. I learned it from an old heavy equipment operator. He did it for many years before I did.
torch
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There is no less risk using propane than there is with ether. In both cases one is adding a volatile fuel to the air intake of a diesel engine. In either case, one might get away with it 99.9% of the time. Heck, there used to be remote ether spray kits available for starting cold diesel trucks from the driver's seat without opening the hood.
It's that last 0.1% that will bite you in the @$$.
If you HAVE to use a starting aid -- be it ether, propane, or anything else -- you can minimize the risk of damage by only spraying while the engine is actually cranking. IE: start cranking before spraying and, if it fails to start, DO NOT STOP cranking until after several revolutions after you stop spraying. This will help keep the accumulation to a minimum and ensure the spray has been cleared from the engine if the attempt failed.
Personally, I have block heaters and battery blankets on all my vehicles, Kubota included. If it's too cold for those to work, then the fuel has probably gelled anyway.
It's that last 0.1% that will bite you in the @$$.
If you HAVE to use a starting aid -- be it ether, propane, or anything else -- you can minimize the risk of damage by only spraying while the engine is actually cranking. IE: start cranking before spraying and, if it fails to start, DO NOT STOP cranking until after several revolutions after you stop spraying. This will help keep the accumulation to a minimum and ensure the spray has been cleared from the engine if the attempt failed.
Personally, I have block heaters and battery blankets on all my vehicles, Kubota included. If it's too cold for those to work, then the fuel has probably gelled anyway.
DITTO what torch stated. engine with GP's and starting fluid of any type is asking for high $$$$$ REPAIRS
I agree. If you have to spray ether to start an engine it needs some repairs made. Just as well do it early enough you don't create more damage.
The paragraph I highlighted in red is something most folks don't do. That process WILL allow the fluid to be more evenly distributed through all the cylinders and not concentrated in one area.
When a 22:1 compression ratio engine ignites with too much ether the parts have to have somewhere to go. It also sucks your pocketbook dry!!
Back to your original post, Bucktail, it seems like you found the culprit (bad glow plugs) and your tractor is operating normally now.
Everyone agrees that starting fluid is a no-no (although some offer ways to mitigate the likelihood of a disaster), but it seems that your question had more to do with whether or not you needed to address damage that might have resulted from the PO's use of ether.
If that's the case, I'd say you're ok based on the tractor operating normally.
For what it's worth, I recently saw first-hand what ether will do. I disassembled a Kubota D722 that was started with ether and found all three pistons cracked so badly they wouldn't hold compression. Replaced the pistons and it started and ran beautifully.
Everyone agrees that starting fluid is a no-no (although some offer ways to mitigate the likelihood of a disaster), but it seems that your question had more to do with whether or not you needed to address damage that might have resulted from the PO's use of ether.
If that's the case, I'd say you're ok based on the tractor operating normally.
For what it's worth, I recently saw first-hand what ether will do. I disassembled a Kubota D722 that was started with ether and found all three pistons cracked so badly they wouldn't hold compression. Replaced the pistons and it started and ran beautifully.
From what I've read, I've got a 22:1 compression ratio in it and the glow plugs make ether a no-no as well. My dad's 1978 IH 1086 came with a can of ether screwed in to the intake manifold. Press a button on the dash, and it gave it a shot of ether. That engine is turbocharged and intercooled though, so the compression ratio is likely more 17'ish, and it doesn't have glow plugs. The can came off and the hole was plugged anyway. The IH engineers were more confident in their engine than we were.
armylifer
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I did not recommend against ether because of any supposed explosion hazard, I did it because ether will dry out your cylinder walls while cranking the engine, propane will not. Propane enters the cylinder as a gas already. Ether enters as a liquid and then quickly turns to gas as it is heated by combustion. While ether is in its liquid state it washes oil away from the cylinder walls and causes a dry cranking condition. Propane will not wash oil off from the cylinder walls.
That factory ether starting aid had an ""orifice that limited the amount of ether"" that could be sent into intake manifold unlike spraying ether from a can into an open air cleaner housing.
"Nothing like the smell of diesel and ether in the morning"
A line used years ago, a logger was trying to fire up the slasher in minus 35 celcius.
Every running machine was hooked to slasher with booster cables and there was a haze of unburned diesel and ether fumes in the air.
Ether lock is a real thing,use lots and see what happens.
A whiff while cranking an old cat like its addicted to ether is normal to some.
I have ether, to wash someting off and dry fast before using locktite.
And to inflate the occasional difficult tire
A line used years ago, a logger was trying to fire up the slasher in minus 35 celcius.
Every running machine was hooked to slasher with booster cables and there was a haze of unburned diesel and ether fumes in the air.
Ether lock is a real thing,use lots and see what happens.
A whiff while cranking an old cat like its addicted to ether is normal to some.
I have ether, to wash someting off and dry fast before using locktite.
And to inflate the occasional difficult tire
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And that restricted amount of ether was going into a 414 cubic inch engine (~7 L?) as compared to my 0.7L Kubota.
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Just got through messing with a MX5000, previous owner did same thing-starting it with ether in the cool mornings. Guy who bought it came to me complaining of "injector knock" and hard starting. I get it in front of me and have 250 psi compression on 3 cylinders and #4 had 145. Pull head. Looks good. Remove pistons. #4 bent rod and broken ring lands. #3 bent rod. #2 bent rod. #1 bent rod and one broken ring land. Crankshaft was tested and found to be cracked near 2 rod journal fillets. Total cost: About $5000. 4 glow plugs would have fixed the problem, and they're not expensive-and real easy to change.
Ether is made for gas engines, not diesels. It got popular with the old 2 stroke Detroits since they were hard to start when they were cold (low scavenge air at cranking speed). Ether will actually make so much cylinder pressure that some engines will lift the head off the block, others will just bend the rods. I have a G1900 Kubota, PO did same thing-ether since the ignition switch was bad and wouldn't cycle the glow plugs....bent all 3 rods, luckily for me no other damage.
I've seen more damage done with ether in a diesel engine than all other causes for engine failure combined. Not just Kubota either...JD, Cub, Perkins, IH, MF, etc. I bought a Mahindra from a guy a while back that had zero compression, when you crank the engine, it woudl spray coolant out from between the cylinder head and the block. Stretched head bolts, lifted the head.
Ether is made for gas engines, not diesels. It got popular with the old 2 stroke Detroits since they were hard to start when they were cold (low scavenge air at cranking speed). Ether will actually make so much cylinder pressure that some engines will lift the head off the block, others will just bend the rods. I have a G1900 Kubota, PO did same thing-ether since the ignition switch was bad and wouldn't cycle the glow plugs....bent all 3 rods, luckily for me no other damage.
I've seen more damage done with ether in a diesel engine than all other causes for engine failure combined. Not just Kubota either...JD, Cub, Perkins, IH, MF, etc. I bought a Mahindra from a guy a while back that had zero compression, when you crank the engine, it woudl spray coolant out from between the cylinder head and the block. Stretched head bolts, lifted the head.
You said ether is made for gas engines, I have used it several times but never on a diesel, but now after reading all this I think I'll just go back to pouring a few drops of gas in the carb.