finally.....about to move in...still researching

[virginiavenom]

so, the place I'm looking at now is 20 acres, nice easy slope, but the soil is very rocky, (Mcalester, OK) there are many large rocks protruding from the surface. they will need to be dug up and removed as I don't want them in the way of mowing or hay production as they currently are. some I have seen protrude the surface at 3' x 3' and probably 2-3' in height. I'm guessing a back hoe is the best way to deal with these. the question is, how heavy are they really? what level am I looking at to get my ground smoothed out.

The property is 99% treeless pasture. there is another relevant change that must be made on the property. the previous owners attempted to build a heavy pipe steel fence (the screw together black pipe kind of steel) 2.5" diameter top pipe, 3/8" cables (on the wrong side I might add) with support 2.5" pipes every 12 feet roughly. there is approximately 2500 feet of this, one major problem, I have no idea how deep they actually go, but I'm guessing they were not set in concrete as some areas are only 3 feet out of the ground and others 5', and the whole lines are leaning. they also do not enclose the shop on the property which has allowed horses to rub their rumps on the doors etc causing damage, I want to fix this so not only are we fixing but re positioning the fence. my current fence I feel we did right by putting them in 9" diameter 3 foot deep holes using a manned post hole digger and filling with concrete and rebar properly (4 foot would be better, but could only go 3' with the manned auger.)

so another question I now find myself asking is, I don't want to cut down every 12' section to be repositioned and stripped and repainted, so beyond the cables being removed, what kind of lift requirements will I need to be able to pull 36-48' sections with a rig centered on a front end loader or would the 3 point be the way to lift it out?

again with the soil conditions being a bit rocky, I'm rethinking the hole post hole auger idea I was wanting (FEL mounted 3rd function so I can reverse it) if I hit a rock where I need to drop a post, which I'm guessing is almost gauranteed, I need to be able to get the rock out, which I'm guessing the backhoe again is a must have.

I will be mowing this property regularly as it is fairly picturesque and beautiful for a horse ranch, just in need of some TLC. I'm also hoping in the future to expand to some other lots around it that will likely become available as the years go on. before looking at this property I thought about an MX5800 with TnT for box blade work etc, but this place has a solid concrete drive making a box blade a little less useful but still handy. I'm guessing I still want a BB as a tool, but now think the TnT will be of less use since I'm wanting and guessing I will need a hoe.

as of right now I have a few options I'm looking at, tell me what you guys think.

L3560
L3901
L4701
MX4800 (thinking if I do this, I might as well go for 5800)
MX5800

backhoe would be a requirement
6' minimum slip clutch brush hog (HD with the rocks I'm guessing is a good idea)
strongest loader available for each model
loaded R4s
box blade with rippers
3rd function
FEL QA post hole digger
bale spear
pallet forks


debating
4in1 vs HD round back
backhoe bucket sizes? a 12" and a 24" or go 12" and 36"?
I love the layout and features of the 3560 as the tilt wheel and FEL and really all controls seem so much better on them than the higher horse lower Ls or the bigger big HP MX series. I know FEL capacity isn't great with the 805 vs the 1105 on the MX....would I really need it?
can they add a cab later on the grand L or is that not possible?

I'm not a big fan of the L3301-4701 as they are much tighter operating spaces and I'm a very large guy, this is why the grand L means more to me if it will do what I need it to do, the MX would just be a "more power" thing, but a lot less amenities.

I'm extremely indecisive when it comes to these things, but finally knowing what work I have ahead of me helps narrow down the decisions I have to make.

any other implements or options I should be considering?

 

[85Hokie]

I am only gonna bite into one part of the apple here.......

those rocks .......are 3 times heavier than you would think!

here is a good guess on those :

digging them up and making them move will be fun - add sarcasm here........ if they break free, you might find skidding them to be easier than picking them up!
http://www.delawarequarries.com/landscape/boulders/boulderwt.html

 

[virginiavenom]

yeah I was just researching that. I guess a jackhammer is in my future....lol. well, at least the tractor will have plenty to do when I do make a decision.

 

[D2Cat]

"so another question I now find myself asking is, I don't want to cut down every 12' section to be repositioned and stripped and repainted, so beyond the cables being removed, what kind of lift requirements will I need to be able to pull 36-48' sections with a rig centered on a front end loader or would the 3 point be the way to lift it out?"

Getting those post out of the ground could be real fun if they (or some of them are) set in concrete. And you won't know until you try to move them or dig near them. Might try a probe to feel what you run into.

I don't think you can move a 36'-48' section of fence without bending something to make it look less then ideal when you reinstall.

I would take a chop saw and cut the top rail between each post. If post are 12' C/C go 6' from each post and cut top rail. Then see how post pull out. Might try with your loader first. Wiggle forward and back a bit to see how it is acting. If they don't budge you'll need to use the 3pt.

Now when you reinstall the fence you can then rotate the fence so the U-bolt clamps (or whatever is holding the cable) is on the inside.

Get the next size smaller pipe and use that chop saw to cut off some 9" pieces. Mark on the at 4 1/4" so you know where center is. Slide one into your first section after the post is set in the ground. Weld one end of the 9" connector piece to the 2 1/2" top pipe, leaving 4 1/2" protruding out . I would use 6010++ rod. It welds dirty iron and is quick freeze, easy to work rod.

Only weld one end of the 9" splice pieces. On the next section you set up butt the top pipe together (not welded). Then keep on going.

The unwelded end allows for expansion (but you probably never get freezing and thawing there).

 

[ShaunBlake]

Since they are leaning, suggesting as you surmise that they aren't embedded in concrete, the posts likely will pull out pretty easily. Even if they have concrete footings, they should come right out with a little leverage. This is something I've begun exploring in working on my landscaping issues: pulling stumps, shrubs, and trees. Posts don't have roots, so they usually pull out than many shrubs.

I suggest you open YouTube and search for stump pulling. Here's my favorite:
Pulling a Stump Using a Truck and Mechanical Advantage
and another one, using a come-along;
Stump Pulling By Hand, No Truck!!!

Regarding your rocks, your best approach might be to blast them. You could use dynamite or even black powder, depending on how much rock you wanted to remove (just enough for topsoil, or totally eradicate the buggers?). It's pretty easy, though time-consuming: drill some holes with a rotary hammer, insert dynamite or blasting powder, insert blasting cap with cord, pack with clay, move a safe distance away and fire it. A small charge can crack a very hard rock, and you can move the rubble to some place more useful.

Blasting prolly seems dangerous and extreme, but as primitive as it is, it's often the preferred tool in these times.

Hey, it would be great if you were posting pics of these challenges!

 

[virginiavenom]

yes D2, I agree that was my go to plan....however I'm lazy and wanted to get done faster, but yeah, with that length, it will definitely cause issues with bending. my other plan was like you said, half way, cut, half way, cut etc etc. also makes chaining to them for removal pretty easy. and easy on the reroute of the cabling. I wasn't planning on doing the reinforcement as I was just going to weld (I typically wire weld and don't even own a stick welder, although I should learn.) however the reenforcement of that top pipe is a great idea and really doesn't add any significant cost or time to the whole thing.

I'll be checking out if I can move without explosives first. I work around them, and only use them for a last resort typically.

I didn't get any pics of the carnage as I was just there on a site/home inspection, but before I begin I will definitely update this page with some good photos of before the project starts. here is an aerial plan I have thus far. purple/pink is existing, the face of the property is PVC plank and it sucks, so that is getting replaced with steel as well. Red is designated new fence line. note the lean-to off the shop is actually going to become a feeding pen and area for animals to get shelter. debating changing the east to follow the lines of that building or keep it square, my ocd bothers me about both. green represents feedlot and the far right green is the east boundary of the property. inside the red fence line is about 3 acres. feedlot is roughly half of that. road is asphalt, to parking pad which is concrete. the yellow and green spots are expansions of concrete (green) and putting gravel in the yellow to build up a solid ground as it is constantly being driven into causing low spots.....debating concrete work. trying to figure out something to do with the shop drive to the back.....it is so awkward and oddly placed and it was all built at the same time. next to a tractor on the pad is a small white dot (that is a water well) shop only has 2 20 amp 110 circuits and 1 15 amp light circuit. eventually I have to figure out where I'm going to put my trailers for safe keeping. I have a 24' open car trailer a 24' enclosed car trailer, a 24' pontoon boat, which is more like 35' with motor, tongue etc. and a stock trailer for horses....crazy work to figure out. gotta put a fence around the pond as well.....it's a septic lagoon, which isn't recommended for animal consumption obviously. the whole property slants downhill the more north you go. smooth easy slope. house is exactly dead center. the rest of acreage is field fencing, along the road I will be doing a steel top pipe as anything else just bothers me aesthetically. I'm open to suggestions on any of the above, which is why I gave a significant amount of detail above.

 

[virginiavenom]

here are some from the real estate listing (note these photos are 3 years old, you can see the fence leaning and bowing.

 

[meackerman]

hope its not like my FIL's place...the first few summers they were there they spent quite a bit of time removing rocks from the horse pastures and by the next summer new rocks were back. it was like they were growing them or something.

 

[virginiavenom]

hope its not like my FIL's place...the first few summers they were there they spent quite a bit of time removing rocks from the horse pastures and by the next summer new rocks were back. it was like they were growing them or something.

it's actually fairly common around these parts to grow rocks. I figured I'll get what's there out, and just remove as I find them as the years go on.

 

[D2Cat]

virginiavenom, from your pictures the lean in the fence looks to me like installer used post hole digger to drill holes for uprights. Then welded up top rail etc. Then as time passed, whatever critters were contained there leaned through the fence for additional forage thus slowly pushing the post.

If you dig a 6" (or 9") hole to put a 2 1/2" post into soil it will move. Yet it can be difficult to actually pull them out.

What might facilitate their removal is to use a pressure washer to insert down by the post to soften the soil. Or, wait until you get a good soaking rain and start wiggling them back and forth.

Why don't you go over to OK City and see if they'll sell you some dynamite. You'll have the Federal Boys watching you until you move back to Tx!!

 

[BAP]

Rent or hire and excavator with a thumb. It will remove the fence and crush it up easily. Also will work better for digging out the big rocks.

 

[D2Cat]

BAP, maybe you didn't read....he wants to use the piping after removing, not scrap it.

 

[Snopro500]

so, the place I'm looking at now is 20 acres, nice easy slope, but the soil is very rocky, (Mcalester, OK) there are many large rocks protruding from the surface. they will need to be dug up and removed as I don't want them in the way of mowing or hay production as they currently are. some I have seen protrude the surface at 3' x 3' and probably 2-3' in height. I'm guessing a back hoe is the best way to deal with these. the question is, how heavy are they really? what level am I looking at to get my ground smoothed out.

The property is 99% treeless pasture. there is another relevant change that must be made on the property. the previous owners attempted to build a heavy pipe steel fence (the screw together black pipe kind of steel) 2.5" diameter top pipe, 3/8" cables (on the wrong side I might add) with support 2.5" pipes every 12 feet roughly. there is approximately 2500 feet of this, one major problem, I have no idea how deep they actually go, but I'm guessing they were not set in concrete as some areas are only 3 feet out of the ground and others 5', and the whole lines are leaning. they also do not enclose the shop on the property which has allowed horses to rub their rumps on the doors etc causing damage, I want to fix this so not only are we fixing but re positioning the fence. my current fence I feel we did right by putting them in 9" diameter 3 foot deep holes using a manned post hole digger and filling with concrete and rebar properly (4 foot would be better, but could only go 3' with the manned auger.)

so another question I now find myself asking is, I don't want to cut down every 12' section to be repositioned and stripped and repainted, so beyond the cables being removed, what kind of lift requirements will I need to be able to pull 36-48' sections with a rig centered on a front end loader or would the 3 point be the way to lift it out?

again with the soil conditions being a bit rocky, I'm rethinking the hole post hole auger idea I was wanting (FEL mounted 3rd function so I can reverse it) if I hit a rock where I need to drop a post, which I'm guessing is almost gauranteed, I need to be able to get the rock out, which I'm guessing the backhoe again is a must have.

I will be mowing this property regularly as it is fairly picturesque and beautiful for a horse ranch, just in need of some TLC. I'm also hoping in the future to expand to some other lots around it that will likely become available as the years go on. before looking at this property I thought about an MX5800 with TnT for box blade work etc, but this place has a solid concrete drive making a box blade a little less useful but still handy. I'm guessing I still want a BB as a tool, but now think the TnT will be of less use since I'm wanting and guessing I will need a hoe.

as of right now I have a few options I'm looking at, tell me what you guys think.

L3560
L3901
L4701
MX4800 (thinking if I do this, I might as well go for 5800)
MX5800

backhoe would be a requirement
6' minimum slip clutch brush hog (HD with the rocks I'm guessing is a good idea)
strongest loader available for each model
loaded R4s
box blade with rippers
3rd function
FEL QA post hole digger
bale spear
pallet forks


debating
4in1 vs HD round back
backhoe bucket sizes? a 12" and a 24" or go 12" and 36"?
I love the layout and features of the 3560 as the tilt wheel and FEL and really all controls seem so much better on them than the higher horse lower Ls or the bigger big HP MX series. I know FEL capacity isn't great with the 805 vs the 1105 on the MX....would I really need it?
can they add a cab later on the grand L or is that not possible?

I'm not a big fan of the L3301-4701 as they are much tighter operating spaces and I'm a very large guy, this is why the grand L means more to me if it will do what I need it to do, the MX would just be a "more power" thing, but a lot less amenities.

I'm extremely indecisive when it comes to these things, but finally knowing what work I have ahead of me helps narrow down the decisions I have to make.

any other implements or options I should be considering?

If I was u I'd look into the m5660 it's a bigger frame tractor with a lot of capacity yet small enough to move around easy enough in tighter places I just traded my l4240 in for one and already love it and only put 2 hours on it

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Why don't you go over to OK City and see if they'll sell you some dynamite. You'll have the Federal Boys watching you until you move back to Tx!!

Oh doing that they will help you move...
Right into the federal penitentiary!

 

[virginiavenom]

Oh doing that they will help you move...
Right into the federal penitentiary!

so I'm still trying to look at the models. I think the 2501 should handle what I want to be able to do, and would help justify the cost of a backhoe over the MX5800. I don't really care how long it takes to mow, I imagine maintenance and parts long term on the 2501 will be far cheaper than the 5800 or even larger Ls. I really think the L2501 is probably the way to go for most hobby farmers (we only have a few horses and chickens) probably the hardest work it's going to do outside of helping with some lifting tasks like lifting that fence out (which I will just do one at a time) is going to be brush hog work, some light dirt work and some ditching, maybe adding and maintaining a gravel drive to my shop. digging out the big rocks will be some back hoe time for me, but that's it. I'm really having a hard time justifying a big MX when I think a 2501 will work, no possibility of a DPF related issue. only running a 5 foot brush cutter sucks, but I have a 6 foot scag that does good work and as long as there are no rocks can fly through some mowing. or do you guys think the 2501 can handle a 6 foot? I know the whole 1 foot per 5 pto power. which the 2501 is low for the 5 foot even. I don't know. probably about 30 days from decision time.

 

[Greenhead]

Daddy always told me to buy the best and you'll never regret it. Nothing worse than buyer's remorse especially with something like this, a one time investment.. I too am tall. With boots, I had a hard time getting over the hump on the 2501-3901s (especially in winter). The 4701 and MXs have a flatter floor. Just get your work boots on and go and try them out. If you are moving bales the MX is a little heavier tractor but you will need weight on the back plus load your rear tires what ever you get.

 

[sheepfarmer]

Virginiavenom, here is a thought, you might want to live with stuff on your new place for a little bit before you decide about moving your fences and what kind of tractor you need to move them.

It turns out to be tremendously convenient to be able to pull the tractor out of the barn and into a horse pasture simply by opening a garage/barn door, as opposed to keeping it outside the fence and opening a gate. The latter is NOT convenient because you always have to put the horses somewhere else while the gate is being opened, or risk them running down the road while you are getting on and off the tractor. The disadvantage to allowing horses anywhere near a building, as you already know, is they will rub their tails on it, chew any wood, and for the heck of it kick the siding. The solution I came up with to protect the doors on my pole barn and still make it easy to drive my tractor in and out is the polywire type electric fence. Plastic step in posts are embedded in dirt filled 5 gal pails in front of the door, with a single strand of wire stretched between, and I can untie the end of the wire from a more permanent part of the fence and pick up a pail and move it as needed. No tools needed (good to turn off charger first). Anyway the point is you might have to live there a while to decide which inconvenience you'd like better, but you might decide not to move your fence after all.

 

[CaveCreekRay]

I like that embedded safety tip: "Good to turn charger off first."

That's better than coffee to get your system going on a cold morning.

Don't ask me how I know.

 

[virginiavenom]

I have done the electric fencing mistakes a time or two. lol definitely a wake up call. the fence not only needs to be moved, but it's too short anyway. and although it's a shop out in the pasture, it needs to be where I can put toys in it to work on, and I don't want to fight the horses on that. I'll have a feed lot and have worked with horses and my other equipment. they always try to escape. not that bad for me the few times I have to take equipment into the rest of the land after the fence is done should be pretty minimal. so I'll have a look see for about 2 months, then I'm moving on either the MX, or some level of L. I'll be sure to update with photos of said boulders and property as time moves on.

 

[virginiavenom]

Went and looked at an L2501 in person....have a few questions I couldn't wrap my brain around. this is on an HST 4wd.

why is there a clutch? specifically when would you use it on an HST?

The placement of the brakes on this tractor really sucks, why is it right over the top of the HST pedal? weird, could get used to it, just really odd placement.

who the hell designed the normal HST pedal on these things, I really don't like them. the Grand Ls Aluminum pedal seems like a much better design and more comfortable to operate. can you just get a grand L pedal and attach, or are the mounts different for one reason or another?

I'm loving the simplicity of the 2501, not to mention the cost which allows me to splurge and get the back hoe easily. everything else I think I can get over.

I want the R4 tires. but should I get the rear wheel spacers (how much do they actually move the tires out?

the hydraulic flow specs on this tractor aren't great, do they make a 3rd function for this tractor (not listed on kubota's site) or will I have to go aftermarket? do they make a low enough flow to be able to use a skid steer quick attach style post hole digger (prefer the ability to reverse the auger if necessary)? best I've found was a 6 gpm min flow rate.