I live in SC. I don't know of ever having diesel fuel jell. Problem is, I don't know that it hasn't and I didn't realize it while wondering why a machine wouldn't run right while cold. We have a few days (occasionally) of single digit temps. My question is, how low and how long does it take for fuel to jell?
Fuel Jelling or Gelling :)
- Thread starter rentthis
- Start date
davesl708
New member
Equipment
BX2200, LA211, RCK60B-22BX, 5ft. Rototiller, Rear Blade, 4ft Drag Harrow
Re: Fuel Jelling
Jelling can occur anytime below 32f. Most diesel suppliers switch to #1 diesel in the winter. Don't rely on it.
If a concern add Power Service in the white bottle. Has other benefits too.
You will know when the tractor won't run or is starved for fuel. Then use Rescue 911 or similar product to clear the lines.
Jelling can occur anytime below 32f. Most diesel suppliers switch to #1 diesel in the winter. Don't rely on it.
If a concern add Power Service in the white bottle. Has other benefits too.
You will know when the tractor won't run or is starved for fuel. Then use Rescue 911 or similar product to clear the lines.
Re: Fuel Jelling
It sure is easier to prevent than it is to deal with after it gels. Condition now or take a chance of freezing your rear off trying to get it running after the fact.
It sure is easier to prevent than it is to deal with after it gels. Condition now or take a chance of freezing your rear off trying to get it running after the fact.
Re: Fuel Jelling
Having heard a commercial for power service and Rescue 911 prompted my question. I have never had a problem that would indicate gelling as you describe so I will watch the weather and keep this in mind. Does gelling correct itself with a temperature increase?
Having heard a commercial for power service and Rescue 911 prompted my question. I have never had a problem that would indicate gelling as you describe so I will watch the weather and keep this in mind. Does gelling correct itself with a temperature increase?
Re: Fuel Jelling
You can also get a magnetic style heater (or a pad style) and put it on the tank along with the block heater. This will prevent gelling also.
You can also get a magnetic style heater (or a pad style) and put it on the tank along with the block heater. This will prevent gelling also.
Re: Fuel Jelling
In these northern parts of the continent, many times what gets blamed on gelling is in fact water freezing in the line, filter, bottom of tank etc. and the water usually comes from condensation in the tank or bad fuel source. I personally had my fuel filter get iced up (it acts as a water trap) and severly restrict fuel flow...the water expands as ice...engine would start and idle but under load would stall...Gelling is similar to the effect that putting molasses in the fridge does...like the saying goes "slower than molasses in January.
The fuel available at my location is winterized for cold climate (at least during winter months) but I do add a bit of anti gelling product just to be safe. Perhaps the fuel available more south where winter temperatures are mild (by our local standards) is not winterized.....probably not.
In these northern parts of the continent, many times what gets blamed on gelling is in fact water freezing in the line, filter, bottom of tank etc. and the water usually comes from condensation in the tank or bad fuel source. I personally had my fuel filter get iced up (it acts as a water trap) and severly restrict fuel flow...the water expands as ice...engine would start and idle but under load would stall...Gelling is similar to the effect that putting molasses in the fridge does...like the saying goes "slower than molasses in January.
The fuel available at my location is winterized for cold climate (at least during winter months) but I do add a bit of anti gelling product just to be safe. Perhaps the fuel available more south where winter temperatures are mild (by our local standards) is not winterized.....probably not.
Re: Fuel Jelling
I use Howes Additive this time of year. Its not guaranteed that Ill burn off all the summer fuel in time. My machine has a home in the garage out of the wind now so that will help a bit. Winds can hit 35 mph real quick on the hill here, wind-chill gets nasty in a hurry.
I use Howes Additive this time of year. Its not guaranteed that Ill burn off all the summer fuel in time. My machine has a home in the garage out of the wind now so that will help a bit. Winds can hit 35 mph real quick on the hill here, wind-chill gets nasty in a hurry.
Gundoctor
New member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
Kubota M7040 4x4/ BX2230 4x4/ JD MX 8/ Ford 101 Moldboard 3 bottom Plows -
Re: Fuel Jelling
Look for a jar of "K-100" . This will stop all gel - up's Up here it is sold ever where
Look for a jar of "K-100" . This will stop all gel - up's Up here it is sold ever where
coachgeo
Well-known member
Equipment
L225 w/woods Few Mowers & Back Blade, D722 in Motorcycle (Triumph Tiger), LMTV
Re: Fuel Jelling
for future reference to any other newbies. You can find lot of information on the topic when searching with the more common spelling of Gell, Gelling
North Idaho Wolfman
Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
L3450DT-GST, Woods FEL, B7100 HSD, FEL, 60" SB, 743 Bobcat with V2203, and more
Gel point is the temperature at which diesel or biodiesel fuel freezes solid and can no longer flow by gravity or be pumped through fuel lines.
This phenomenon happens when a fuel reaches a low enough temperature whereby enough wax crystals have formed to prevent any movement in the oil. For #2 diesel this is usually around 17.5 °F (***8722;8.1 °C).
For the fuel to become pumpable again, it needs to be brought above the gel point temperature to the Ungel point, which is typically near its pour point. However, most of the waxes will still remain in solid form and the fuel has to be warmed up further until its Remix temperature in order to completely remelt and redissolve the waxes.
Anti-gel additives are therefore commonly added to diesel or biodiesels where cold temperature is expected. They act to reduce the formation of wax crystals in the fuel, thereby lowering the pour point and the gel point of the fuel. Anti-gel additives may not necessarily affect the cloud point.
This phenomenon happens when a fuel reaches a low enough temperature whereby enough wax crystals have formed to prevent any movement in the oil. For #2 diesel this is usually around 17.5 °F (***8722;8.1 °C).
For the fuel to become pumpable again, it needs to be brought above the gel point temperature to the Ungel point, which is typically near its pour point. However, most of the waxes will still remain in solid form and the fuel has to be warmed up further until its Remix temperature in order to completely remelt and redissolve the waxes.
Anti-gel additives are therefore commonly added to diesel or biodiesels where cold temperature is expected. They act to reduce the formation of wax crystals in the fuel, thereby lowering the pour point and the gel point of the fuel. Anti-gel additives may not necessarily affect the cloud point.
If you have any doubt about your fuel quality or if it is going to be cold enough to gel, add a dose of fuel conditioner. It's not going to hurt a thing if you don't need it but it's a pain in the butt if you end up with gelled fuel. I use Howes year round.
From my own experience, cutting up filters of of equipment that has acted up, in cold weather, water settles out of diesel, usually in the filter. At the water/oil interface line, you can see a line of junk, for lack of a better term, floating just below the diesel. As the water level increases, you have less and less filtering media left for the fuel to flow through. Its cheap insurance to pop a new filter on any diesel, before cold weather arrives. Some units have filters with a water drain, so it's real easy to put a cup under and see what comes out. If its got water, I change it, too. Its also a damnsite easier doing it then, than in finger numbing temps, too...
It was a cold day,-44 celcius. The loader we were using to load tailings froze up. They ended up dropping fuel tank, and the Boss was armpit deep in the fuel tank to check the pickup in the tank. It was completly blocked with wax and ice. The anti gell wasnt very effective and machine wouldnt run. I was observing and shivering just watching from the cab of the warm truck i was running.
From that day on, he ran anti gel from the sign of the first snowflake. Turns out the tank we were drawing fuel from was summer fuel.
Treat your fuel if you suspect it may be summer fuel.
From that day on, he ran anti gel from the sign of the first snowflake. Turns out the tank we were drawing fuel from was summer fuel.
Treat your fuel if you suspect it may be summer fuel.
Many years ago when I was a tractor novice, my tractor stalled at the end of our long lane in the middle of a dark rural road at a temp of -40. Soon the battery was dead trying to restart it and so there were not any lights still working and I was afraid some snowmobile would come flying over the hill into my 8,000 # hunk of cast iron.
From that day forward I got a bulk fuel tank and keep it filled with what is called -40 colored diesel. I use it year round but you can only buy it in the late fall and through the winter.
I have a water separation filter on the hose from the bulk tank and never have any fuel problems.
The fuel is a little more expensive but the piece of mind is priceless.
Dave M7040
From that day forward I got a bulk fuel tank and keep it filled with what is called -40 colored diesel. I use it year round but you can only buy it in the late fall and through the winter.
I have a water separation filter on the hose from the bulk tank and never have any fuel problems.
The fuel is a little more expensive but the piece of mind is priceless.
Dave M7040
It doesn't get that cold here in N GA (-40) but just in case I have been using this in my truck and tractor fuel
http://www.xtremediesel.com/XDP-Diesel-Power-Plus-Fuel-Additive-XDDPP116.aspx
http://www.xtremediesel.com/XDP-Diesel-Power-Plus-Fuel-Additive-XDDPP116.aspx
My perspective is that in virtually all of the U.S. fuel gelling isn't that much of an issue. Water is the problem. Take care of the water contamination present in most diesel fuels and low-temp operation improves.
I use GoldenRod water-block canister filters for polishing AFTER flowing through settling-bowl type filters on my tanks and use an admixture (Stanadyne, Sea Foam, StaBil) year-round and have never had a single fuel-related problem in over 30-yrs. And we'll get down to 0-F for a couple weeks or so every year.
A fun fact regarding wax formation in diesel and other 'light' hydrocarbon liquids...
If the fuel suffers wax crystal formation once and is reheated to the point of being useable, the best thing is to drain as much as possible, install new fuel, dose it heavily with anti-gelling material, and then very gradually add the old fuel back into the system over time.
What happens is that (let's assume the original waxy fuel is left in the tank) each time the fuel is reheated to get rid of (liquify) the wax, the wax is very subtly "refined" to the point that it will have a higher melting point. After a couple or three episodes the wax that forms the next time will be so relatively 'pure' that trying to reliquify it will be difficult if not practically impossible. That's when you find the entire fuel system locked up solid.
In temperature-controlled lab setting I've seen the first generation of fuel wax crystals be a somewhat dirty yellow-brown and soft-to-mushy. By the time the third generation is produced by controlled cooling and reheating, the wax shows evidence of crystalline structure, becomes harder white, more pure. Each successive generation of waxy material shows a higher melting point, making it increasingly more difficult to reliquify the wax.
For those familar with the oilfield practice of hot-oiling a well, you may find that after a few pumping episodes the paraffine wax produced turns from black gummy asphaltic to a pretty almost clear white. Same process as with diesel, just on a somewhat different scale.
Posters with alternative opinions ideas thoughts experiences practical remedies all welcomed. Please post.
I use GoldenRod water-block canister filters for polishing AFTER flowing through settling-bowl type filters on my tanks and use an admixture (Stanadyne, Sea Foam, StaBil) year-round and have never had a single fuel-related problem in over 30-yrs. And we'll get down to 0-F for a couple weeks or so every year.
A fun fact regarding wax formation in diesel and other 'light' hydrocarbon liquids...
If the fuel suffers wax crystal formation once and is reheated to the point of being useable, the best thing is to drain as much as possible, install new fuel, dose it heavily with anti-gelling material, and then very gradually add the old fuel back into the system over time.
What happens is that (let's assume the original waxy fuel is left in the tank) each time the fuel is reheated to get rid of (liquify) the wax, the wax is very subtly "refined" to the point that it will have a higher melting point. After a couple or three episodes the wax that forms the next time will be so relatively 'pure' that trying to reliquify it will be difficult if not practically impossible. That's when you find the entire fuel system locked up solid.
In temperature-controlled lab setting I've seen the first generation of fuel wax crystals be a somewhat dirty yellow-brown and soft-to-mushy. By the time the third generation is produced by controlled cooling and reheating, the wax shows evidence of crystalline structure, becomes harder white, more pure. Each successive generation of waxy material shows a higher melting point, making it increasingly more difficult to reliquify the wax.
For those familar with the oilfield practice of hot-oiling a well, you may find that after a few pumping episodes the paraffine wax produced turns from black gummy asphaltic to a pretty almost clear white. Same process as with diesel, just on a somewhat different scale.
Posters with alternative opinions ideas thoughts experiences practical remedies all welcomed. Please post.
I use the same filters Stubbyie and have had very good luck too. All my fuel is filtered at least 2x before it goes in my equipment and if I have to take it to the field I have my transfer tanks filtered as well. I'm just glad to hear someone else is as anal about filtering as I am.
My tractor is stored outside in a structure that has one side always open.
The temps have been lower 20's. Went out today after the snowfall to do the clean up. Turned the key, lit the glowplugs, waited close to 20 seconds and fired it up. 15 seconds later, it stalled. Restarted, idle real rough, between 1,500 and 700 rpm. Stalled. Repeated. Probably 30 times. Had the throttle fully open. Finally, started, rpms climbed over 1,800 and the engine smoothed out, dropped the throttle a bit and let it run at about 2,000 for a few minutes. Got to work and ran flawlessly all day.
My guess is the fuel had jelled at the primary fuel pump injector pump or injectors.
I did notice the pump going 'click.........click.........click.........click' and not 'click..click..click..click..click..click..click'
Fuel in it is from Sept., probably need to add a little more conditioner. Can you add too much?
The temps have been lower 20's. Went out today after the snowfall to do the clean up. Turned the key, lit the glowplugs, waited close to 20 seconds and fired it up. 15 seconds later, it stalled. Restarted, idle real rough, between 1,500 and 700 rpm. Stalled. Repeated. Probably 30 times. Had the throttle fully open. Finally, started, rpms climbed over 1,800 and the engine smoothed out, dropped the throttle a bit and let it run at about 2,000 for a few minutes. Got to work and ran flawlessly all day.
My guess is the fuel had jelled at the primary fuel pump injector pump or injectors.
I did notice the pump going 'click.........click.........click.........click' and not 'click..click..click..click..click..click..click'
Fuel in it is from Sept., probably need to add a little more conditioner. Can you add too much?
William1
Since you got lucky and your tractor finally started, rather than add more additive, I would focus on removing as much of the Sept fuel as you can and dilute it with cold weather diesel. Then operate your tractor until you feel that the fresh diesel will be throughout the lines, filter and injection pump.
Repeated restarts are awfully hard on the starter and even if you got your tractor going, if you take it out to work where there is a cold wind blowing the fuel system could gell up while running.
If you can throw a tarp or blanket over the running engine until you get new fuel in it will trap some of the engine heat around the fuel system.
Dave M7040
Since you got lucky and your tractor finally started, rather than add more additive, I would focus on removing as much of the Sept fuel as you can and dilute it with cold weather diesel. Then operate your tractor until you feel that the fresh diesel will be throughout the lines, filter and injection pump.
Repeated restarts are awfully hard on the starter and even if you got your tractor going, if you take it out to work where there is a cold wind blowing the fuel system could gell up while running.
If you can throw a tarp or blanket over the running engine until you get new fuel in it will trap some of the engine heat around the fuel system.
Dave M7040