beckmurph,,, that ranger is WAY overloaded. That trans is barely good enough for just the truck, much less any kind of load.
Tow Vehicle?? What do you tow your Kubota with??
- Thread starter aquaforce
- Start date
Actually the GVCW is 9500lbs on this Ranger. With the B3200TLB and 18' trailer, it ways 9250lbs per Cat scales.
The little Ranger handles this combination very well.
When you're sitting on the side of the road with the splines striped out of the overdrive planet or torque converter, just remember , I warned you. ipz2222 President, Fleet Transmission Inc.
GVCW is Gross Vehical COMBINED Weight, Your over loaded! No Ford Ranger in history has ever been rated for 9500lbs. A F150 barely moves that much.
When they say GVWC they are talking about the weight of the truck plus the weight of the trailer plus the weight of the cargo should not be over 9500 total, your moving damn near 5 tons with a tiny truck.
When they say GVWC they are talking about the weight of the truck plus the weight of the trailer plus the weight of the cargo should not be over 9500 total, your moving damn near 5 tons with a tiny truck.
My brother tried towing with his Ranger, 16' trailer and B7500. It wasn't a problem pulling it was stopping and handling. Just not enough truck to pull that kind of weight. JMHO.
We're not saying the Ranger can't pull it, hell a VW Bug could pull it. We're simply saying the engine will grenade and the transmission strip out trying to move that load repeatedly. It's your truck you're free to drive it anyway you feel but it won't hold up in the long run. And hauling an overloaded rig is on you big time when you get into an accident.
Alright, here is the evidence. As you can see, I am with in the guide lines of the Ranger owners manual. I have a 4.0, 4 door, 4x4, with the jump seats. I have no problem with towing my B3200tlb with the Ranger. I don't get in a rush on take off. I average about 14mpg and travel at about 60mph. Stopping is no problem. Trailer has brakes on both axles.
Sure I would prefer an F350, but this works for me.
You're misinterpreting what the book is telling you GCWR is Gross COMBINED Weight Rating. Like I said before that means the total weight of the truck plus the total weight of a trailer plus the total weight of cargo.
I'm trying to find the definition on the FMCSA website who sets the standards on all vehicles for towing.
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/
I'm trying to find the definition on the FMCSA website who sets the standards on all vehicles for towing.
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/
Eric look at the last picture. The top of the page list the total weight of the trailer. Look down the column, and you will see a weight of 5490. The trailer with the 3200 weighs close to that amountt.
As a CDL driver, the Ranger is within the legal limits of GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) and suggested* GCWR (Gross Vehicle Combined Rating) Certainly he is not suggesting that the Ranger was capable of 9500lbs by itself, but that the ranger and trailer/load COMBINATION rating was 9500lbs
So, no over loading at all if he is at 9250 lbs COMBINED as the unit is rated at 9500 COMBINED. PROVIDED that the hitch weight does not put the rear axle over its GAWR (Gross Axle Weight Rating)
As to stopping, well the weight of the trailer should have little effect on that other than the weight carried by the hitch. WHY? Something called proper working trailer brakes, and they should be doing the stopping on the trailer and the Rangers brakes should be doing the stopping on the Ranger.
I do not see why people, especially my fellow CDL drivers, who should have a higher level of understanding of loading GAWR, GVWR and GCWR's get into such a panic when they see a something like a 5000lb pickup towing a larger trailer, say something over 10k. Why do CDL drivers especially think this is unsafe when the very class 8 rigs we drive have trailers much heavier than the tow vehicles?
Of course it has to be done right, just like a class 8 rig at 105,000lbs on the hiway, I am not belittling that it takes skill to be safe, but just because the trailer might weigh twice or three times as much as the tow vehicle, that does not in itself make anything unsafe, but it does and will magnify any mistakes made, but understand a mistake has to be made in the first place.
Now, not everyone has the skill or the CAPABILITY to tow something where the trailer outweighs the tow vehicle by a significant margin, but that is more of a drivers licensing issue, and requiring those who tow to pass certain additional tests, just like my fellow CDL drivers have been required to do so.
As a side bar, while I tow mostly with my 1990 F250 (460/E4OD) I also use my 1970 C600 (330 gas/Allison 6 speed/HD** air brakes) occasionally - but it is slow, good thing I have zero issue of moving right, turning on the four ways and letting the truck work the load up the hills.
The previous owner, a retired guy now used to pull a CAT 955 loader behind the truck... WOW that is like 28k with the trailer on the hitch.
Here it is with 14,000lbs in the box... Just another of many loads, another old Ford living out its life doing what it was built to do!
David
*GAWR and GVWR are legal limits and are listed on the required safety compliance certificate affixed to the truck. Not to be confused with the older warranty plate with was only a suggested value.
GCWR is not on the safety compliance certificate and is found in the owners manual. This is a suggested maximum only and has no legal standing from the DOT or DMV departments. I would hazard to guess though that a sharp lawyer in a injury lawsuit could argue that if the driver exceeded this recommended value, there could be something of a overloaded condition as a contributing cause of the accident/collision. Personally I would stay within the ascribed values as outlined.
**HD spring air brakes have 25% more lining area than the vacuum boosted hydraulic brakes that came standard on this C600. Just like I would NOT own this truck if it were not a automatic (with retarder for extra braking), I would also NOT drive any of these old trucks with standard hydraulic brakes in todays ABS brake equipped world. There is just not enough lining area to be safe (in my opinion) in todays quick stop traffic world, and perhaps as a "specifications" guy that is why my stuff works, and others have issues -
So, no over loading at all if he is at 9250 lbs COMBINED as the unit is rated at 9500 COMBINED. PROVIDED that the hitch weight does not put the rear axle over its GAWR (Gross Axle Weight Rating)
As to stopping, well the weight of the trailer should have little effect on that other than the weight carried by the hitch. WHY? Something called proper working trailer brakes, and they should be doing the stopping on the trailer and the Rangers brakes should be doing the stopping on the Ranger.
I do not see why people, especially my fellow CDL drivers, who should have a higher level of understanding of loading GAWR, GVWR and GCWR's get into such a panic when they see a something like a 5000lb pickup towing a larger trailer, say something over 10k. Why do CDL drivers especially think this is unsafe when the very class 8 rigs we drive have trailers much heavier than the tow vehicles?
Of course it has to be done right, just like a class 8 rig at 105,000lbs on the hiway, I am not belittling that it takes skill to be safe, but just because the trailer might weigh twice or three times as much as the tow vehicle, that does not in itself make anything unsafe, but it does and will magnify any mistakes made, but understand a mistake has to be made in the first place.
Now, not everyone has the skill or the CAPABILITY to tow something where the trailer outweighs the tow vehicle by a significant margin, but that is more of a drivers licensing issue, and requiring those who tow to pass certain additional tests, just like my fellow CDL drivers have been required to do so.
As a side bar, while I tow mostly with my 1990 F250 (460/E4OD) I also use my 1970 C600 (330 gas/Allison 6 speed/HD** air brakes) occasionally - but it is slow, good thing I have zero issue of moving right, turning on the four ways and letting the truck work the load up the hills.
The previous owner, a retired guy now used to pull a CAT 955 loader behind the truck... WOW that is like 28k with the trailer on the hitch.
Here it is with 14,000lbs in the box... Just another of many loads, another old Ford living out its life doing what it was built to do!
David
*GAWR and GVWR are legal limits and are listed on the required safety compliance certificate affixed to the truck. Not to be confused with the older warranty plate with was only a suggested value.
GCWR is not on the safety compliance certificate and is found in the owners manual. This is a suggested maximum only and has no legal standing from the DOT or DMV departments. I would hazard to guess though that a sharp lawyer in a injury lawsuit could argue that if the driver exceeded this recommended value, there could be something of a overloaded condition as a contributing cause of the accident/collision. Personally I would stay within the ascribed values as outlined.
**HD spring air brakes have 25% more lining area than the vacuum boosted hydraulic brakes that came standard on this C600. Just like I would NOT own this truck if it were not a automatic (with retarder for extra braking), I would also NOT drive any of these old trucks with standard hydraulic brakes in todays ABS brake equipped world. There is just not enough lining area to be safe (in my opinion) in todays quick stop traffic world, and perhaps as a "specifications" guy that is why my stuff works, and others have issues -
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I guess you never bothered to look up the weight of the B3200 plus extras. The weight of the B3200 alone is 1,764 for just the tractor. By the time you ad on the loader the backhoe and the ballast in the tires you're looking at close to 5000lbs and assuming the trailer empty weights in around 2000lbs to 3000lbs empty and then you stick the tractor ontop you're looking at damn near 9000lbsish. So YEAH the Ranger is a little more then over loaded. Have you seen the picture of the ass end squating something fierce on that Ranger too??
How many big rigs have you driven where the rear dropped like that?!?!
And as to your 105,000lbs on a class 8 truck you can't legally haul that much with a 5% overload permit.
80,000lbs is all you're allowed unless you have a 5% overload sticker which allows you 85,000lbs and thats for secondary streets only and not highways!
Yeah you can hit 105,000lbs and then some with a big rig but you have to have endorsements out the ass and escort vehicles and flags and over load signs and blah blah blah.
I suggest you go back to driving school and take you CDL all over again.
How many big rigs have you driven where the rear dropped like that?!?!
And as to your 105,000lbs on a class 8 truck you can't legally haul that much with a 5% overload permit.
80,000lbs is all you're allowed unless you have a 5% overload sticker which allows you 85,000lbs and thats for secondary streets only and not highways!
Yeah you can hit 105,000lbs and then some with a big rig but you have to have endorsements out the ass and escort vehicles and flags and over load signs and blah blah blah.
I suggest you go back to driving school and take you CDL all over again.
beckmurph,, I didn't mean to sound critical or start such a heavy discussion. As a transmission speciliast, working on these things every day, I know the "safe" towing weight is only 2,000 lbs, in my "professional" opinion. If that is what you have to tow with, ok. Just trying to give you info to save you money.
I was trying to help back up and support your point of view. I knew Ford Rangers or any small compact truck for that matter have very low towing capacities and 9500lbs isnt it.
His own picture should speak for itself with the rear end squatting the way it is, the tractor is balanced on the trailer correctly and its still causing a nasty drop. He is over loading the leaf springs and can stretch them out and can cause them to flip inside out. Seen that happen too.
Well. The Ranger owner weighed the ENTIRE rig and he reported it at 9250lbs. regardless of the numbers you are pulling out of wherever, the CAT scales says 9250lbs TOTAL..
As reported, the combination or GCWER is 9500lbs. That leaves 250lbs BEFORE ANY OVERLOADING CONDITION OCCURS. (providing that the rear GAWR as noted previously has not been exceeded by the trailer tounge weight)
Perhaps ignoring your perceptions for a minute and looking at the facts would open your eyes, but I seriously doubt it. You have made up your mind on nothing more than perception and that is probably as far as you are going to think. Unfair statement? I seriously doubt it, you have been given factual scale weights as well as black and white written specifications, yet you still feel the need to ignore all of this and go with a unfounded perception.
Evidently you can't read or can't subtract, so may I respectfully you go back to grade school and learn one or both.
As to the CDL 105,000 lbs, sorry, fail again, if you have enough axles, my state allows this. Of course if oversize, then permits are in order as is to be expected. And yes, Washington is a bridge formula state as well as a state that used pounds per square inch to determine total legal loading. And yes, there are numerous bridge and other structure weight restrictions that limit weights significantly, even much less than the 80k you mentioned.
Oh well, something about leading a horse to water, but you can't make it drink comes to mind.
Facts are facts. Perceptions are at best a educated guess, at a middle a uneducated ignorant assumption and at worse, just plain stupid. At least in my opinion!
As to the squatting, well that is a case of trailer loading. Move the weight forward or back, load the tractor the other way on and bring the trailer tounge weight back into reason. Which is why I have now mentioned the rear GAWR three time now. But still, squatted not, the Ranger is NOT overloaded from GCWR. The Ranger owner still has 250lbs to go before he crosses into the "recommended" by Ford range... but I would readjust the load on the trailer myself.
As always Eric, it is fun to banter back and forth.
David
And Eric, you did catch the part about the GCWR not being a legal number right? So even if the rig came out at 11k total, from a legal perspective it still is not overloaded, but from Ford' recommendations and specifications it would be, but not from a DOT or DMV perspective. Unless of course being used commercially, then you could get into a non legal pounds per square inch of tire loading.
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Hi All,
I tow with a 1999 Dodge Ram 3500 DRW Cummins Turbo Diesel and I borrowed a flat bed trailer from my buddy to get our tractor home.....
Looks like I need another trailer?????
I usually tow a 28' Pace Shadow GT car trailer and when full of race car & parts it weighs 12,000 lbs and when hooked up to my Dodge the total is just over 19,000 lbs.....
The Dodge has 201,000 miles on it and now has a New Venture 6 speed because I broke the N/V 4500 5 speed twice...
A dual rear wheel truck is the only way to go for towing because the 8 sidewalls in the rear make it a very stable tow....
The last long tow we had was just over 6,200 miles from CA to Indy and back, and for the trip we averaged 13.2 mpg.....
The Dodge gets 20 mpg empty…
Bob
PS:
My 1 ton dually stops better with the trailer attached than without it....Guess that those extra 4 wheels braking help
I tow with a 1999 Dodge Ram 3500 DRW Cummins Turbo Diesel and I borrowed a flat bed trailer from my buddy to get our tractor home.....
Looks like I need another trailer?????
I usually tow a 28' Pace Shadow GT car trailer and when full of race car & parts it weighs 12,000 lbs and when hooked up to my Dodge the total is just over 19,000 lbs.....
The Dodge has 201,000 miles on it and now has a New Venture 6 speed because I broke the N/V 4500 5 speed twice...
A dual rear wheel truck is the only way to go for towing because the 8 sidewalls in the rear make it a very stable tow....
The last long tow we had was just over 6,200 miles from CA to Indy and back, and for the trip we averaged 13.2 mpg.....
The Dodge gets 20 mpg empty…
Bob
PS:
My 1 ton dually stops better with the trailer attached than without it....Guess that those extra 4 wheels braking help
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"Evidently you can't read or can't subtract, so may I respectfully you go back to grade school and learn one or both."
Just because you use the word "respectfully" in this sentence doesn't mask the fact that you are being disrespectful. Whether Eric is right or not, stooping to insult brings you down. One of the most enjoyable parts of OTT is that, even in disagreement, the people here usually treat each other with respect. I cringe when posts like this go on, whoever is doing it.
Just because you use the word "respectfully" in this sentence doesn't mask the fact that you are being disrespectful. Whether Eric is right or not, stooping to insult brings you down. One of the most enjoyable parts of OTT is that, even in disagreement, the people here usually treat each other with respect. I cringe when posts like this go on, whoever is doing it.
