Not enough lift in 3pt to adjust blade well?

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Me an hair pins don't get along well, I replace them with these 2 different style pins:

 

[olthumpa]

What Wolfman said, it is the only way to go.
Only lost one in the last 4 years and that was my own @#%! fault.

Me an hair pins don't get along well, I replace them with these 2 different style pins:

 

[sheepfarmer]

Those look better, I think an assortment of sizes would be good to have around. I don't like the key ring type lock that comes as original on the Kubota part of the hitch either. I know, picky picky, but try getting those in focus with your bifocals in a not too well lit barn. I think the folks that design stuff are all young working in warm well lit shops.

 

[ShaunRH]

I'm not entirely sure what the OP is trying to accomplish here. If it's to get a totally straight line from tractor to blade, through the pivot points of the lower arms, that's not going to be possible, the pivot point height is lower than the implement draglink height.

So doing what others have said (lower the top link attachment point, or hydraulic top link) will work but there will still not be a clean line of pull through the pivot point of the lower arm links.

If I were trying to do this 'better' without monkeying up the adjustments for all my other implements or spending $$$ on an expanded rear hydraulic system, I'd make an attachment frame that mounted into the quick hitch system and started with the implement draglink frame level. This could be done with a welder, some angle iron and a new set of link pins.

An adapter frame like that won't fix the 'straight line' through the pivot point issue but it would pull from the middle of the adapter frame which would be roughly between the toplink and lower arms, pull wise, and that's not a horrible place to pull from, not optimal, but not horrible for a blade.

I haven't seen a simple constructed blade like that yet that looks right on a compact tractor. The ones with tilt on the main shaft look right when adjusted properly, but you pay for that feature!

 

[Dieselbob]

I don't know if this helps or muddies the water more, but from looking at the picture, with blade on the ground, the draw bar arms are almost straight out. IF the goal is to get the blade to lift up higher (as was my case), then you really need to get get those lower mounting points closer to the ground so the drawbars angle downward when the blade is on the ground.

 

[cerlawson]

Shawn and Diesel: Muddy the waters is right. The poor guy has two problems. One getting the blade to lift higher and also being able to pivot it around on a "VERTICAL" pivot. Regardless of what the line of force has from pivot, these two goals take priority. Speaking of force line (I'm a civil engineer), it goes from tractor lower arm support to the cutting edge of the blade via a bunch of metal. That is not the line attempted in the original picture. It might even be extended to run from the bottom of rear tire to that blade edge, again through a bunch of metal and some rubber.

 

[sheepfarmer]

Hi Shaun, Diesel, and Cerlawson, first let me tell you that what is optimal might not be practical for me to do (older than my Ford 8N by some, retired prof, and female so not much hand strength, and 0 welding experience, not that I wouldn't like to learn). That said the best part about this forum is that what gets posted is useful to a wide audience, so the issue might still be worth pursuing. I like learning new things, and am curious about the recent points, and so if it doesn't rain I'll drag it out and photograph it now that the top link has been moved. It wasn't entirely on level ground before, I'll try the driveway.

 

[cerlawson]

Sheep farmer: OK prof, you cleared it up nicely. After you play with these suggestions and if all is not to your liking, I'd suggest a neighbor who has been through the same experiences. All this tech talk, and some rather difficult even for me to follow, was meant well, but maybe should be ignored.

 

[ShaunRH]

Well, okay, sorry if I muddied the waters but it was just me misunderstanding what your original intent was.

If all you are trying to do is lift the blade up, then NIWolfman's suggestion is right on.

If you are trying to get that arm level so the cutting blade is at the proper angle to the ground, then NIWolfman's suggestion might or might not work. It all depends on that toplink and how high your 3 point can lift. I think it might work, I'm not sure.

My suggestion of a subframe isn't overly technical, it's just a way to let the blade sit level while your 3 point stays 'in line' with the force of the pull. It could be done with 4x4's and lag bolts if you wanted to, no welding needed. I tend to think in welding terms just because tractors are metal. Way back when, most implements were combinations of metal and wood, so they do work together.

My suggestion would be to follow NIWolfman's suggestion, try it and see if it works. If so, then you are done, if not, then post back here and we can call see if we can come up with something for you that will. You might even be able to take your Quick Hitch into a welding/machine shop and have a second set of lift catch points (those hooky like thingies on the bottom of the quick hitch) welded higher up so you could have 2 quick attach points. There are a lot of options for cantankerous implements! Not trying to muddy, just trying to help.

 

[sheepfarmer]

Ok here are the results of the latest trials. Not to worry, nobody has muddied any water as far as I am concerned, please continue with comments, I appreciate your patience with a newbie.

The problem I was trying to solve was to adjust the 3 pt so that the plow support beam was level at plowing height (so I could swivel blade around and not have one end dig into the ground) AND be able to lift the whole thing high enough up in the air that I could get out of the barn without it hanging up, and to be able to hike it up to go over a pile of snow if necessary.
1. Moving the left and right lower links up to top hole in the U shaped bracket got me from 6 inches off the ground max lift to about 8 inches max lift.

2. Moving the top link DOWN to the bottom hole on the tractor got me to 14 1/4 inches max lift which is just enough to get out of the barn without scraping. Progress!

So here it is on a "level" surface, blade more or less horizontal after I pulled it out of barn.

After futzing around with top and side links to get the blade support beam level:

The blade can then be offset and swiveled without getting cattywampus.

and swiveled.

The next two pictures show the angles of the lower links which are not downwardly angled as suggested by Diesel, and which actually show that the top link is roughly at right angles to the lift rods.

So...it might work fine in this configuration, which was the one suggested by mtn view and NIW. I expect if there isn't too much snow, 14 inches of lift might be enough. Comments? We often get 6-8 inches at once, last winter the whole mess accumulated to about 2 feet.

If not, Cerlawson and I earlier thought of putting shorter lift rods to get more lift (NIW doesn't think that's a good idea, and I am wondering what the forces are on these parts, especially if I hit something immoveable with the blade ), and Diesel suggested lowering the angle of the "lower link" to use Kubota's terminology to get more lift. It looks like the latter could be accomplished by moving the pins to the holes closer to the body of the tractor??? I would guess that that might then require Shaun's modification to the quick hitch or a subframe?

The experiment I didn't think to do was to round someone up to run the hydraulic controls while I videod or at least watched what is happening to the angles when the plow is raised. Maybe next time...

Thanks!

 

[MagKarl]

I think you've done a fine job at getting that blade set up sheepfarmer. Best thing you can do now is spend a bunch of time dragging it around until you get the feel for it.

 

[sheepfarmer]

I think you've done a fine job at getting that blade set up sheepfarmer. Best thing you can do now is spend a bunch of time dragging it around until you get the feel for it.

Thanks MagKarl, I hesitate to say "Let it Snow" so I can try it out in case I bring down a blizzard for Xmas, so if the snow gods are listening I didn't say it.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

One point that hasn't been mentioned, just to throw more mud on it, how high is the upper arms traveling?
If the feedback lever is out of adjustment, your lift height problem could be there.
This would not allow the hydraulic rams (yes I said rams as in plural, go to the bottom statement if confused) to travel their full distance, thus shortening the lift.
Also the position control link could be out of adjustment that too would cut off movement before it reached it's upper limit.

Easy way to find out of there is an adjustment problem with either is remove any implement and Quick Hitch from the three point, (reason for removing Quick hitch is weight) Unless you are one tough gal that want to try and lift the quick hitch and the three point arms ), with everything off raise the three point shut the tractor off go to the back and try and lift the arms if they lift at all then one of the adjustments is off, most likely the feed back rod.

Bottom Statement: And before all of you jump on me, yes it has 2 rams and they are external not internal, and you tell me you can lift yours up higher then the hydraulics will lift it, you probably have an older tractor with an internal ram and not a pair of external rams for the lift, They changed the design drastically on these models!

 

[bcp]

Have you tried moving the lift arms forward on the lower link? That will allow more movement, (if clearances allow) but less lift strength.

Bruce

 

[sheepfarmer]

The weather is going to stay relatively warm, so NIW I believe I can park the blade on dollies and leave the quick hitch on it, this gal even when younger didn't lift 100 lbs! Or at least that is what my kubota dealer said it weighed. So Bruce when I do that experiment, I will also see what happens to the way the lower lift arms move with the pin shifted forward. I was thinking to try that when Diesel said his worked better when they were lower, and it looks like that would happen too. Only thing is my blade plus hitch weighs 630 lbs, so I don't know if that is too much for that angle?

Thanks!

 

[Dieselbob]

This is a VERY crude drawing, but IF you need more blade lift, this is one the ways (if not the only way) to solve this. By moving the mounting points down on the blade, you will get more effective lift out of the drawbar of your tractor. A different tractor and blade, but on mine, I lowered the mounting points six inches and more than quadrupled my lift height on the blade. A very minor modification for somebody with a welder. Perhaps you could trade some tractor work for some welding work?

 

[BadDog]

As someone else said, moving the lift arms to holes closer to the rear axle will increase the lifting distance quite a bit. But it also looses mechanical advantage of the lever, so will be able to lift less. Not a problem here I would think.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

The weather is going to stay relatively warm, so NIW I believe I can park the blade on dollies and leave the quick hitch on it, this gal even when younger didn't lift 100 lbs! Or at least that is what my kubota dealer said it weighed. So Bruce when I do that experiment, I will also see what happens to the way the lower lift arms move with the pin shifted forward. I was thinking to try that when Diesel said his worked better when they were lower, and it looks like that would happen too. Only thing is my blade plus hitch weighs 630 lbs, so I don't know if that is too much for that angle?

Thanks!

I didn't catch that the arms weren't in the forward holes, that will change the lift drastically!
And you shouldn't have an issue with lift strength, it will lift way more than what your dealing with, 2600lb range.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

This is a VERY crude drawing, but IF you need more blade lift, this is one the ways (if not the only way) to solve this. By moving the mounting points down on the blade, you will get more effective lift out of the drawbar of your tractor. A different tractor and blade, but on mine, I lowered the mounting points six inches and more than quadrupled my lift height on the blade. A very minor modification for somebody with a welder. Perhaps you could trade some tractor work for some welding work?

When-if this is done, a person needs to be sure that the blade will still turn 360*. This can vary from implement to implement, they are not all the same.

With how these blades have to be built to be able to do what they do, there just is not a lot of height left for the hitch to raise the implement up.

This is how I did mine.

 

[Dieselbob]

Mine would not rotate 360 degrees the way it came from Land Pride, and it still doesn't after modification. The ONLY way my blade would ever rotate properly when mounted on a BX is cut the blade width down.