4WD working properly?

[westx]

So I just bought this used M5030DT. 1700 hours. 4WD seems to work on flat ground. At least the lever engages properly and the front wheels turn a bit when I lift the front off the ground with the loader.

But when I'm back in the bush or in some mud, I keep getting stuck. Too easily for my liking. It seems the front tires act more like anchors and don't want to rotate. Especially obvious in reverse when the back tires start spinning. Stomping on the rear diff lock levers helps a bit with the back wheels, but the fronts just sit there.

I haven't done any diagnostics beyond lifting the front up with the bucket as I said above.

Is there some trick I'm missing? Operator error? A mystery lever that would lock the transfer case together or something? I'm perplexed as I'm used to 4x4 trucks and know and understand how they work and can repair them, etc.


Any help would be great!

 

[85Hokie]

So I just bought this used M5030DT. 1700 hours. 4WD seems to work on flat ground. At least the lever engages properly and the front wheels turn a bit when I lift the front off the ground with the loader.

But when I'm back in the bush or in some mud, I keep getting stuck. Too easily for my liking. It seems the front tires act more like anchors and don't want to rotate. Especially obvious in reverse when the back tires start spinning. Stomping on the rear diff lock levers helps a bit with the back wheels, but the fronts just sit there.

I haven't done any diagnostics beyond lifting the front up with the bucket as I said above.

Is there some trick I'm missing? Operator error? A mystery lever that would lock the transfer case together or something? I'm perplexed as I'm used to 4x4 trucks and know and understand how they work and can repair them, etc.


Any help would be great!

If you are "stuck" in the mud and IN 4wd - and the rears are spinning and the fronts ARE doing nothing............then something is wrong!

So they spin when in 4wd with bucket holding them in the air?

Get in the same situation as before, in 4wd and take notice, then slip out of 4wd drive and see IF anything changes at all. If nothing changes - the front end is not hooking up under pressure.

I have heard the ol story of the tires staying still, and the wheels spinning on the rims! That was a hugh problem a while back with a fellows tractor, the rim was spinning and the bead was not hooked to the rim! Sounds crazy as hell, ask someone to look at the rim as you place it in a tricky situation.

report back if you find out something else !

 

[cerlawson]

For one thing, don't stomp on the diff lock lever when tires are spinning. That will likely peel off the splines on the shaft and after that that device won't ever work until replaced.

Could someone have engaged FWD while rear tires were spinning? Same possibility.

There is another question: Is the front axle engage lever hooked to anything?

Have you tried both positions. Mine was labeled wrong here.

 

[skeets]

Dumb but have you checked the air in the front tires,,, yes low or no air will let the rim slip,, you know one guy in here that found that out,,,,lol

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Sounds like you have something wrong in either the front or the back connection or drive.
Lift one front tire off the ground not both, with it not in 4wd you should be able to manually turn the tire, with it in 4wd you should not.
If you lift both tires, with it in 4wd one tire will spin one direction and one tire will spin the other, if it does not there is a problem.

 

[Bluegill]

Front tire/s no spin when back tires spin, you have a problem.

But put enough weight on the 3 pt when using the loader and you would really
be surprised. This might be a hint to why the front wheel drive is broken...

 

[westx]

Front tire/s no spin when back tires spin, you have a problem.

But put enough wright on the 3 pt when using the loader and you would really
be surprised. This might be a hint to why the front wheel drive is broken...

Guess I don't follow that last point. Could you explain the terms to a newbie?

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Guess I don't follow that last point. Could you explain the terms to a newbie?

What he is saying that you need a ballast box, 1000 to 1500lbs hanging on the three point to take the stress of the front axles when using the loader.

 

[westx]

Great tips all around. Thank you.

I'll report back after the rain stops.

 

[Bluegill]

What he is saying that you need a ballast box, 1000 to 1500lbs hanging on the three point to take the stress of the front axles when using the loader.

Yes! A tractor is designed to use it's rear wheels to do most of the work (see size of rear axle, wheels/tires)... Add a loader to the front and even empty that takes weight off the rear and adds it to the front axle. Load the bucket and well you can see... In 4wd they seem to work pretty good, but no weight or too little weight on the 3 pt and this will eventually kill the front axle components...

I learned this the hard way with our old L3750 and $1500 in parts...

Besides that, a properly ballasted machine will work like a completely
different machine in a very good way.

 

[westx]

Yes! A tractor is designed to use it's rear wheels to do most of the work (see size of rear axle, wheels/tires)... Add a loader to the front and even empty that takes weight off the rear and adds it to the front axle. Load the bucket and well you can see... In 4wd they seem to work pretty good, but no weight or too little weight on the 3 pt and this will eventually kill the front axle components...

I learned this the hard way with our old L3750 and $1500 in parts...

Besides that, a properly ballasted machine will work like a completely
different machine in a very good way.

So maybe if I put a box blade or a bush hog on the back, that'll make a difference?

 

[Bluegill]

So maybe if I put a box blade or a bush hog on the back, that'll make a difference?

That will help, but more weight would be better. 1000-1500 for that size rig. I like to add around 500 lbs to my box blade and use that. Gives me 900 lbs for the L3800...

You still likely have something wrong with the front wheel drive, if the front tires don't spin when you're stuck. It might be the front drive shaft, which would be an easier fix than going into the front axle.

Also if you have R4 industrial tires, they are not so good in mud. R1 ags are much better where traction is needed.

 

[westx]

Confirmed this morning that the front wheels are NOT turning when 4wd is engaged. Put all four up in the air and did multiple tests with the levers and locks at different positions.

Here are two photos in the open and closed position of the 4wd lever (can't recall which one the sticker says is 4wd).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lmtxr7g2t7skwls/2014-12-20 12.25.45.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/q11ydi9n291d79b/2014-12-20 12.25.55.jpg?dl=0

Neither position results in 4 wheels turning.


Verified the front diff lock works. When I engage the foot lever and turn the front wheels by hand, both turn together.

My WSM is in the mail, so I am at a disadvantage at this point. I can't put eyes on the driveshaft as it seems completely enclosed.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Verified the front diff lock works. When I engage the foot lever and turn the front wheels by hand, both turn together.

The Diff lock has no bearing on the front end at all, and if you have both front wheels off the ground and they are turning the same direction I seams you most likely have a front differential problem.

EDIT: Complete retraction of the above statement, your M does have a locking front diff so it might be fine!
You can get to and inspect the front section of the propeller shaft just by removing a couple bolts.

 

[westx]

Pulled the access panel off the underside of the drivetrain. Driveshaft is spinning when 4wd is engaged. I'm afraid of what that means :-(

 

[ipz2222]

Do it again and look real close at the stub that sticks out of the front diff. Is it spinning also???

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Check the front propeller shaft to diff. connection, it's one of the week links, they can just strip the spines out of the coupling.

 

[westx]

I don't see anything sticking out of the front of the diff. It seems to be completely enclosed.

The only way I'm seeing (without an WSM) to drop the shaft is to unbolt the front axle from the two bearing races which it pivots on.

Could anyone post a diagram so I can see more clearly?

 

[Bluegill]

When the front wheel drive went out on our old L3750, I pulled the propeller
shaft cover off and could see the front coupler was striped.

Turns out it was the splines on the pinion shaft that were striped. New ring &
pinion set and a bunch of other parts.

Hopefully your is just a coupler, then you wont need to go into the front axle.

 

[westx]

When the front wheel drive went out on our old L3750, I pulled the propeller
shaft cover off and could see the front coupler was striped.

Turns out it was the splines on the pinion shaft that were striped. New ring &
pinion set and a bunch of other parts.

Hopefully your is just a coupler, then you wont need to go into the front axle.

Yup, that's what I need to do. I'm just a little hesitant to start unbolting what appears to be the only thing holding the front axle to the tractor. I'd love to have a diagram to look at before I make it *really* hard to to pull it on a trailer