L3400DT clutch adjust - PTO clutch froze?

[ValveJob]

I did that adjustment that involves removing a small plate on the flywheel housing cover to adjust 3 bolts. There was a thread by darren (L3000 clutch problems) about this adjustment and traildust posted the procedure. The procedure is very similar to the that of my L3400DT I am having an issue with. Gap value is even the same.

The drawback was removing the loader to adjust the clutch since the flywheel access plate is an inch behind the loader mount. Well I pulled it off and it is scary that it went so well. It was a little tricky at first turning the flywheel and getting a wrench on the bolt just right. When I got the loader back on correctly I knew I was almost there.

One problem, grind when engaging PTO just like before I started. Grind when engaging PTO with rotary cutter on is so bad that I have only engaged it twice like this. The grinding gets the blades up to speed so the gears engage.

I'm thinking that clutch for the PTO is stuck to the pressure plate. That or something is messed up. I've read a lot about unsticking clutches but I don't recall specifics to unsticking the clutch for the PTO. When I got this thing the clutch play was excessive. Partially pushing in the clutch lets you change gears and pushing it in all the way disengages the PTO. It was garage kept I'm still thinking (hoping) that it is stuck and not messed up.

So my question. What procedure would you use to try to unstick it? I'm thinking that I'll get it going by defeating the safety switch and cranking it with the PTO engaged. Then I get to doing a little bush hogging at a good clip. Then step on the clutch and slam on brakes. Someone with some smarts on this kind of thing please let me know what you think. I took Mr. K's advice and dropped the loader for the clutch adjustment and he was right because it needed it. I don't want to screw it up but I'm game for a small risk before finding out what breaking a tractor in half really means.

Thank you guys in advance,

Tom

 

[Joshua Zahn]

Partially pushing in the clutch lets you change gears and pushing it in all the way disengages the PTO. It was garage kept I'm still thinking (hoping) that it is stuck and not messed up.

I'm not sure about the grinding deal, but what you described above sounds like what the L235/L275 operator's manual describes as a dual clutch.

"The transmission clutch is disengaged when the clutch pedal is pressed down half-way. The PTO clutch remains engaged. Both the transmission and PTO clutch are disengaged when the pedal is pushed fully down."​

It goes on to talk about a clutch stopper which allows you to push the pedal as far as it will go and only disengage the trans. Does your model by chance have this?

 

[ValveJob]

I'm not sure about the grinding deal, but what you described above sounds like what the L235/L275 operator's manual describes as a dual clutch.

"The transmission clutch is disengaged when the clutch pedal is pressed down half-way. The PTO clutch remains engaged. Both the transmission and PTO clutch are disengaged when the pedal is pushed fully down."​

It goes on to talk about a clutch stopper which allows you to push the pedal as far as it will go and only disengage the trans. Does your model by chance have this?

Joshua,
Thanks for the reply. Looking at the Operators Manual and the tractor there is no indication of a clutch stopper. It does have the dual clutch in which the pedal play adjustment is for the drive clutch and the adjustment through the flywheel housing is for the PTO clutch.

One thing I should have gotten accross before is that since there was so much slop in the pedal play that the pto clutch may not have been disengaging. The tractor had hardly been used for the previous 2-3 years before I bought it. When it was used I don't think the PTO was used often. It is an 06 model with 119 hours on it when I got it a few months back. It has 140 now and I only recently tried a rotary cutter on it.

Thanks for the comments. I did not know about a clutch stopper so I learned something new already.

Tom

 

[Bulldog]

The very first thing I would check is the water drain plug in the bottom of the clutch housing to make sure it's dry. Are you pushing the clutch all the way thru both stages before you try to engage the PTO? It's easy to miss this step if you're not familiar with the tractor. A friend of mine got his M 4900 stuck in a creek bed and water got over it before he could get it out and the clutch stuck on it. Sadly he ran his out the back of his garage trying to stop. After getting over his injuries he drained the housing and worked the clutch with the engine off and it finally broke loose. Hope this helps.

 

[ValveJob]

The very first thing I would check is the water drain plug in the bottom of the clutch housing to make sure it's dry. Are you pushing the clutch all the way thru both stages before you try to engage the PTO? It's easy to miss this step if you're not familiar with the tractor. A friend of mine got his M 4900 stuck in a creek bed and water got over it before he could get it out and the clutch stuck on it. Sadly he ran his out the back of his garage trying to stop. After getting over his injuries he drained the housing and worked the clutch with the engine off and it finally broke loose. Hope this helps.

Bulldog,

That drain is dry and believe me, the clutch pedal is down and adjusted. Looking in through the flywheel housing cover I did not see any sign of water, just some dry clutch powder

You do give me an idea of something I need to be doing and should have been doing: the block of wood under the pedal trick - mine actually has a pin to slide over. My tractor stays 200 miles away from me and sometimes sits 2 -3 weeks at a time. It sat for months or longer at a time before I got it, but was always garage kept. It was in this state when I got it.

I will start a new habit of keeping that pedal down when not in use.

Thanks,

Tom

 

[Bulldog]

Good idea on the wood block. It actually says to do that for storage purposes in my owners manual. Something you might try before you tamper with the safety switch. Engage the PTO with the engine off. Press the clutch in fully and get someone to hold it in for you. Take a pry bar and work the yoke on you cutter back and forth to see if you can break it loose. A spair PTO shaft out of something would really be handy for this. You could let it hand down against the draw bar and ease the clutch out and break it loose that way. Just a thought, does the pto shaft on the tractor turn all the time when it's running? Just curious? You might even try setting thr RPM at low idle with the cutter engaged, clutch depressed, kill the engine and see if the momentum of the cutter stopping will break it loose. Anything will be better than a clutch job.

 

[ValveJob]

Good idea on the wood block. It actually says to do that for storage purposes in my owners manual. Something you might try before you tamper with the safety switch. Engage the PTO with the engine off. Press the clutch in fully and get someone to hold it in for you. Take a pry bar and work the yoke on you cutter back and forth to see if you can break it loose. A spair PTO shaft out of something would really be handy for this. You could let it hand down against the draw bar and ease the clutch out and break it loose that way. Just a thought, does the pto shaft on the tractor turn all the time when it's running? Just curious? You might even try setting thr RPM at low idle with the cutter engaged, clutch depressed, kill the engine and see if the momentum of the cutter stopping will break it loose. Anything will be better than a clutch job.

Bulldog,
This is good stuff. I really like the idea of the safer and less agressive approach to start with. Not for safety to me as much as doing damage to Bessie. I hope to try these ideas this weekend. I will probably check back here for more possible options/advice before doing my original unsafe agressive plan.

To answer your question the PTO spins once it is engaged weather the clutch is in or out. It does not spin when the PTO is not engaged.

If anyone else has ideas or advice on this throw it out here.

Much Thanks,

Tom

 

[Bulldog]

I went back and read over your first post again about this clutch problem. By the way you described the adjustment process it doesn't sound like it's not to hard to get limited access to the clutch. It would be nice to just spray some kroil or some other good penetrating oil in there and let it go to work but then you will have a nice oil soaked clutch disc for sure. Then you really will get that chance to find out about splitting a tractor in half. I've been there, it's a lot of wrench turning. Do you have enough access to the clutch to spray some break cleaner in on it? I can't see why it would hurt the disc. It's sort of like break linings in a way and the cleaner won't hurt them. If you do have the room I would get someone you trust on the tractor (insure it's in neutral, break set and even wheel chocks wouldn't hurt) and soak the clutch down with the break cleaner. Have your helper work that clutch. It might give you just enough fluid running around in there to help break it loose. If you do end up bypassing the PTO safety switch I would suggest this one thing. I'm not totally familiar with your model, Does it have a manual fuel shut off on it? If so Have it pulled so the engine won't crank while you're bumping the starter over. If it's electric shut off, I would unhook that so it can't crank. It will give you much better control over the situation. It could do some terrible or even deadly damage if it was to crank up unexpectedly. I know when I have to do things like this I prefer to mentally go thru every step at least 2 times before jumping in with both feet. I love my orange but a body still bleeds red when it get mangled. I would start with the least aggressive and work my way up. I hope it works out for you and you can get it going safely. Good luck.

 

[ValveJob]

I went back and read over your first post again about this clutch problem. By the way you described the adjustment process it doesn't sound like it's not to hard to get limited access to the clutch.

.... Do you have enough access to the clutch to spray some break cleaner in on it?

....Does it have a manual fuel shut off on it? If so Have it pulled so the engine won't crank while you're bumping the starter over. If it's electric shut off, I would unhook that so it can't crank.

Bulldog,

I think what I see through the window is part of a pressure plate and flywheel. That opening gets small trying to make the adjustment. I can't see clutch disk. I wondered if there was even that magic spot you could stick something through to pry it off the flywheel but I couldn't tell looking through the access. The idea of break cleaner or something like that will come before clutch job. I have to study the parts diagram some more and see if I can figure out the best direction to spray if I go that route.

There is no manual fuel shutoff but I can study that and probably find a reasonable way to shut it off.

I'll be heading out a little later for the weekend to where the tractor is. I'm building a small building but I'll be taking time to work on this problem too. Sorry to hear about your freind running through the garage. I hope to not do that, or turn over if I can help it.

Thanks again for these great ideas. These are things I will carry with me from now on.

Tom

 

[ValveJob]

I went back and read over your first post again about this clutch problem. By the way you described the adjustment process it doesn't sound like it's not to hard to get limited access to the clutch.

I think I did something really stupid. I was looking back over some things (like simple instructions). I think I did that adjusment proceedure wrong. I put the gap at the end of the bolt not the head. I didn't have to turn it far (clockwise) to do that But it would be the wrong direction for putting gap at the head of the bolt. I did not even see the head of the bolt. You adjust it from the end of the bolt sticking through the locking nut. It has a square end on the bolt to adjust from.

Glad I started out with the less agressive measure. I was really going to tear something up. Back to basics.

 

[Bulldog]

Maybe that will be all that it is. Sometimes it's the simple things that really kick your butt. That would be nice if a simple readjustment would fix you up. Hope you get lucky.

 

[ValveJob]

I think I did something really stupid. I was looking back over some things (like simple instructions). I think I did that adjusment proceedure wrong....

Yep, I did it wrong. I locked the clutch down after I adjusted it the right way. With pto engaged I could turn the PTO with my hands.

several reasons I got it wrong the first time:

You can not see the head of the bolt. It is outside the field of view all toghether.

There is therefore no place to set gap with feeler gauge. The gap will be correct if you turn the bolt 7/6 turns (1 1/6).

I thought the square end of the bolt was the head of a stud you were supposed to turn. After touching the front pressure plate I turned it clockwise to get the right gap that I set with the feeler gauge.

Anyway, I screwed up. In hind site the directions are fine as long as you know there is a bolt head on the other end of that stud looking thing. And you know that you can't see the head of the bolt touch the back pressure plate. You feel the bolt get tight. Then back it off.

I'll probably post a new thread on that because several models are the same, with even the same gap.

Another cool thing. Every wonder if the main drive clutch is froze up on one of these things. You can see the main drive clutch. If you lock down the clutch you can reach in with a finger and spin it freely. You can see it comes off the flywheel when depressing the clutch pedal.

Man I'm glad I did't jerk that thing around and tear it up.

Tom

 

[Bulldog]

Valvejob,

It sounds like you had a good weekend. Glad to hear that you fixed your clutch. It's always a good feeling to get a job done safely and with no damage to youself or to your property. Another plus is that the OTT family is able to learn from your experience as well.

 

[ValveJob]

Valvejob,

It sounds like you had a good weekend. Glad to hear that you fixed your clutch. It's always a good feeling to get a job done safely and with no damage to youself or to your property. Another plus is that the OTT family is able to learn from your experience as well.

I'm just really glad I listened to you and started out in a less agressive manner. That may have led to me rethinking the whole thing.

Thanks again for the ideas. I'll be ready when a clutch does stick. One idea often inspires another so all you guys keep it up. OTT is good stuff.

Tom

 

[Bulldog]

I don't recall if you ever said what model your tractor is but mine L 3000 is a 2000 model. I wish that I new exactly how many loads of dirt and rock it has spread since I bought it. For the last ten years I have been filling in behind my house when my drivers had some slack time. I finally finished it last fall and got me a 30'x40' shed to park my tractors and trailer in. I would guess it had around 400 to 500 20 plus ton tanden truck loads of waste rock. I hauled 600 loads of dirt with my dirt pan while my wife and son spread them out for me. I have fixed driveways and spread dirt for different people all over the place and never had a clutch problem yet. I hope to continue doing it with the same success. I just have always tried to run in low range when I'm pushing hard even though it takes a little longer. Doing it fast isn't a smart move when all it gains is being hard on my machine. That is backing up in my book instead of going forward. It's good to hear that you got your clutch problem worked out. Have fun and be safe.

 

[ValveJob]

I don't recall if you ever said what model your tractor is but mine L 3000 is a 2000 model. ..... never had a clutch problem yet..... It's good to hear that you got your clutch problem worked out. Have fun and be safe.

It's a 2006 model. I just got it a few months ago. The clutch pedal was sloppy with lots of play. My only concern is that I think I WILL have a clutch problem prematurly. Looking in at the side of the clutch plate I think it looks pretty worn even though I don't have a go by. The clutch plate looks like it has a disk of some kind in the middle. It looks like there is twice as much clutch material on the front half, as it has on the back half. It looks like it has quite a few cracks on the back half around the edge. There was a little pile of powder in the window when I first opened it up.

If someone has some experience on that and has a clue as to how much wear this relates to I would appreciate the feedback?

I read the instruction in the manual and the pointers on ott and I stay off the clutch. Push it in briskly and let it out just right as needed. I think it got bad wear from never being adjusted and used wrong. It only had 120 hours on it when I got it and I got right on all the maintenance and fluid and filter changes that had never been done.

Tom

 

[Bulldog]

It's a shame the way some people treat there stuff. My dad always tried to teach me the value of a dollar when I was growing up. I can't believe how easy it is for some people to just throw money away. To me that's all abuse on equipment is. A real operator can work a machine hard and still take care of it as well. I'm going to drop this off. If I keep going I'll just get pissed off. I hate abuse. Some DA being rough on a piece of equipment is like beating a good dog, it just ain't right.


Valvejob,

I'm glad you got your ride going and hope it will work well for you. I love that size tractor. It's big enough to work on larger jobs but still small enough to work in a tight spot as well. I believe now that you have it working correctly you'll really have a lot of fun with it. Have a good one.

 

[ValveJob]

It's a shame the way some people treat there stuff. My dad always tried to teach me the value of a dollar when I was growing up. I can't believe how easy it is for some people to just throw money away. To me that's all abuse on equipment is. A real operator can work a machine hard and still take care of it as well. I'm going to drop this off. If I keep going I'll just get pissed off. I hate abuse. Some DA being rough on a piece of equipment is like beating a good dog, it just ain't right.


Valvejob,

I'm glad you got your ride going and hope it will work well for you. I love that size tractor. It's big enough to work on larger jobs but still small enough to work in a tight spot as well. I believe now that you have it working correctly you'll really have a lot of fun with it. Have a good one.

I love it for the very reasons you say. It is perfect for me, and my land and task, and I am having a great time with it. I'll see how long I can make that clutch last. I'm stubborn and a do it myself type, so when the time comes I'll be talking clutches here on ott with you great men.

Tom

 

[Bulldog]

I understand what you mean about the do it yourself type. That's how I was always taught myself. Things always seemed to break when the parts stores are closed and a storm front on the way. If a man couldn't get things going for himself it was a bad day on the farm. The younger generation today only know that you go to the store to get food and to a mechanic when something breaks. They don't have a clue how the food gets to the store much less what a wrench is for. It's really sad when you sit and think about it.

 

[BastropMetal]

This is a shot in the dark on a 14 year old thread, but I have the same tractor and issue as the original poster. I see he hasnt been active on this forum in a decade unfortunately.

In several of his posts on this thread he mentions a procedure to adjust the PTO clutch. I have looked through my shop manual several times and cannot find such a procedure. If anyone out there has it, please share -I would very much appreciate it!