B7100 Hydraulic Pump Oil seal

[IBNFE]

I recently lived the nightmare of having my Xmission oil pumped in to my engine due to a bad oil seal on the engine operated hydraulic pump. I have the pump off but there is not a snap ring holding the oil seal in place as my manual shows. There is a snap ring located on the fuel pump that appears to be holding a bearing in place but not on the Hydraulic pump oil seal side.

I noticed on my Hyd pump, it appears that a punch was used to indent the metal on the pumps case around the oil seal in order to hold the seal in place. I don't want to proceed until I have a better idea what to do. This is an older B7100 4x4 and not a hydrostatic.

Thanks for your help

IBNFE

Just wanted to update my Post.

Seems there was not a snap ring installed by the prior owner. I received my new parts today and was able to determine that the oil seal was pressed in and that the pump does not have a groove for the snap ring to lock in to. So I removed the old oil seal with very small common screwdrivers being carful not to damage the mating surface. Once out I applied some assy fluid to the new oil seal and pressed it in as far as I could get it by using a socket of the same circumference Lastly I used a soft hammer to seat the seal and then realized that there was just enough surface to install the new snap ring I ordered. I then seated it with the same socket as mentioned before.

 

[Daren Todd]

Usually lip seals are just pressed in. Haven't come across one that has had any sort of retaining ring or snap ring. They are usually either tapped or pryed out depending on the location.

Do you see a slot near the seal that would except a snap ring? Pics areba great help for figuring this stuff out

 

[IBNFE]

Usually lip seals are just pressed in. Haven't come across one that has had any sort of retaining ring or snap ring. They are usually either tapped or pryed out depending on the location.

Do you see a slot near the seal that would except a snap ring? Pics areba great help for figuring this stuff out

Thank you your for your quick response, I hope Im tracking right with the snap ring. All the manuals I have show one as does the parts break down you can access at Messicks.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

There is no snap ring on the pump side.
seal is just pressed in, if it's popped it out before It is very likely it needs a complete rebuild or replacement, it sounds like it's allowing too much fluid and pressure behind the seal.
Note: I think the snap ring your seeing in parts diagrams holds the cam bearing in place.

 

[Daren Todd]

Thank you your for your quick response, I hope Im tracking right with the snap ring. All the manuals I have show one as does the parts break down you can access at Messicks.

I'm sure if you give the post some more time, someone who has had experience with the pump your talking about will chime in. If you can post some pictures of it, it will help. The only hydraulic pump's i've worked on weren't kubota. The seals were usually either held by compression with a spring, with a snap ring holding the bearings and shaft in place to lock them together, or the seals were pressed against a lip to keep the seal from popping out.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

You don't have a newer style of pump on there do you? It will have a clip holding the seal in.
You will note the cover plates are completely different, dead give away.
If it is the newer pump and they didn't put the clip back in and just peined the seal in that's the reason it failed, You will need to clean up the clip slot and put a new clip and seal in it.

Newer HST pump

Older Non-HST pump

 

[dmanlyr]

Just wanted to update my Post.

Seems there was not a snap ring installed by the prior owner. I received my new parts today and was able to determine that the oil seal was pressed in and that the pump does not have a groove for the snap ring to lock in to. So I removed the old oil seal with very small common screwdrivers being carful not to damage the mating surface. Once out I applied some assy fluid to the new oil seal and pressed it in as far as I could get it by using a socket of the same circumference Lastly I used a soft hammer to seat the seal and then realized that there was just enough surface to install the new snap ring I ordered. I then seated it with the same socket as mentioned before.

If I am reading this right, you have no groove for the snap ring, if so, just installing a snap ring on top of the seal will do nothing and it may come out and flail around causing additional damage.

As mentioned by others, if a particular pump is built without a seal retainer - then that pump has internal passages to remove the pressure from the back side of the seal. So if the seal pops out, that means that the passage(s) is plugged, not likely, or the pump itself is worn out, most likely.

If the PO staked the seal in, then he or she knew of the additional problems, and tried a rube Goldberg fix to pawn it off on you.

David

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

If I am reading this right, you have no groove for the snap ring, if so, just installing a snap ring on top of the seal will do nothing and it may come out and flail around causing additional damage.

I 110% agree with this statement!
I have fixed more problems from someone's well meaning "fix"!

 

[Quagmire33]

I have a b6200 and I had a snap ring holding the seal in. It was also a very tight fit. Replacing the seal did not cure my problem like wolfman said. Unfortunately I will need to replace my pump. Hope you have better luck.

 

[IBNFE]

You don't have a newer style of pump on there do you? It will have a clip holding the seal in.
You will note the cover plates are completely different, dead give away.
If it is the newer pump and they didn't put the clip back in and just peined the seal in that's the reason it failed, You will need to clean up the clip slot and put a new clip and seal in it.

Newer HST pump

Older Non-HST pump

Wolfman and all others,

Thanks so much for the advice all of you have posted.

I should of given the site a chance to respond prior to in stalling the pump with a snap ring with out having the groove for one. (What was I thinking?)

The good news is my gut told me something was not right so I did more research and found out that I was looking at a diagram for a newer style pump as wolfman suggested. I removed the pump (again) and removed the snap ring. At this time the old girl is back together and all seems to be operating normal. again, thanks to all of you, what a great resource this site is V/R Tom

 

[IBNFE]

Again, thanks for all the advice.

If possible, would any of you have a line on a pump just in case I do have some sort of internal failure?

The ones I'm looking at new are around $400.00.

I could also remove it and send it for a rebuild if you could suggest a reputable business.

Thank you.

 

[Daren Todd]

If you do a quick google search it showed about a dozen different company's in Jacksonville. Some looked more promising then others for your needs. All call to them should tell you wether they can help or not. Had some experience in the orlando market, and the main thing to look for if your gonna have it rebuilt, is check the place out. Some employ wino's and druggys to work in the shop. Especially if they are located in the ghettos, and i've had them create more problems then what it originally went in for.

The local auto parts stores might be able to point you in the right direction. Possibly an equipment rental company might be able to recommend someone as well.