B3350 dpf issues

[sheepfarmer]

Hi Shaun, I won't argue with you that dpf and regeneration is an optimal solution to the problem of the soot particles, because I don't think it is. It works ok hooked to the type of engine on mine, but I wouldn't mind if it were not there. The new engines are really nice...quiet, easy to start, efficient. What a tradeoff. I would really like to have some real data on the amount of fuel used per task as well as emissions per task, and then we could decide as to whether they have accomplished anything. I do not find it necessary to run mine at top rpm all the time, but what works on my engine may not work for the indirect inject b3350. At the moment the overall picture sounds disappointing, but what Kubota does in the next 5 years will be intersting.

I also won't argue because of no real data that I can access about the genuine agricultural uses not generating enough pollutants to be significant. I tend to think my farmer friends have enough problems as it is, and wouldn't want to add to them. The ones I have talked to are not having troubles with their really big equipment and the dpf or def, however.

On the other hand, on any given weekend the number of lawnmower type vehicles might be a real problem, and most of them fall under the hp limit. Go figure.

 

[Daren Todd]

It's harder for the smaller engines to achieve the temps needed for a regen. The larger engines have greater exhaust temps upwards to 1300°f, so it doesn't take much to burn off the carbon. I've been watching these posts on the newer motors and am curious to see what kubota does in a few more years. Wife and I will be looking for a bigger tractor in a few years and are considering going new. I'm personally a little leary of the dpf. I've had it in two work trucks, and one blew the motor last year. The one I drive is five years old and hasn't done a regen in six months. It's starting to get a mild case of the hiccups now when pulling something or sitting at a stop light at idle. I hate to see what that repair bill is gonna be

 

[ShaunRH]

I also won't argue because of no real data that I can access about the genuine agricultural uses not generating enough pollutants to be significant.

THIS point you make here is probably the most significant one of the entire discussion. You cannot find valid data to back up ANYTHING about farm engine emissions. What is out there is either statistical in nature (with horrible T values or just outright guess work) or utter fantasy studies done with no real scientific basis and couldn't be published in a peer journal if they tried. They end up in "Sierra Club" mags and such.

This should scare the bejeebers out of all of us. If they can regulate based on almost no evidence, to the point that it costs manufacturers, farmers, construction companies (the list is almost endless), millions of dollars per year, then what are they prevented from regulating?

The EPA is the new powerhouse on the block. They have their own police force (armed by the way) with SWAT functions, their own regulatory bodies with NO elected oversight, and rules that are nearly impossible to back out even when they are totally wrong.

They are going after your drainage techniques, your vehicles, your airborne particle densities and your livestock emissions. What we are seeing is likely going to be the end of traditional farming. They are just two steps away from regulating whether or not you are allowed to feed your own family from your own land, let alone anyone elses.

I'm not trying to fear monger here, but the lines and directions are pretty clear. It's not your daddy's farm any more.

 

[jcummins]

I'm not trying to fear monger here, but the lines and directions are pretty clear. It's not your daddy's farm any more.

It's not your Daddy's GOVERNMENT any more.

 

[djones2389]

Hello, new Kubota owner, after seeing this long thread on B3350, i'm not a happy camper... just over 50 hours, the inhibitor light came on by itself... call dealer, they have no idea why, and had to research, but go ahead and run the tractor until park regen kicks in. This is upsetting because I have ran it at 3500+ and never idle. And told this should not happen with auto regen.

Well, after wasting 30 minutes or so for parked regen, both light went out, then got auto regen 2 more times and inhibit light is now back on... This is all in less then 6 hours. bumper...

Dealer still have no answers and kubota service rep, I'm told to keep a log of regen. I was running in a dusty environment and hope cleaning the air filer and since the oil needs changed it might help.

If not I'm going to have to keep working with dealer for a solution or replacement.

 

[ShaunRH]

Like others have posted, sadly I have heard hundreds of horror stories about DPF systems on all sorts of diesels. If you can swap for a leftover/older model without that, it will be worth it. There is literally no upside to DPF, except a minor reduction in exhaust smoke and soot....however I've seen trucks regen-ing and smoking pretty good so I still don't get how the GVT thinks that's better.

It's not about the environment. The entire 'reports' driving this are cooked to get the results they wanted. There is no way you can justify burning MORE fuel to alter the emissions as being cleaner. It's moronic, yet it got Government into an area of the economy they were unable to get into previously.

Here in CA, the farm equipment must now carry DMV licenses and have identification numbers on them... here's the main part... and pay PROPERTY TAXES on the vehicles. It used to get covered as part of the sales tax when you bought it, but now, it's an annual property tax bill as well.

Do we all get it now? The environment is nothing, it's about control and regulation. If it were about the environment, they'd have forced all units to have DEF or DPF and make the kits to retrofit all older tractors with it. Any non-compliance would have the tractor towed to the scrap heap. However, this also would've made purchasing a single carrot at $10. So, we go back to the idea that it should've been scrapped entirely. However, we are now stuck with this silliness because they HAVE to have control.

 

[bumper]

My little B3350 now has 278 hours on it, still not problems with auto-regens, which in the warm weather are running about 16 hours between.

So, because I knew there were several updates to the computer, I took tractor to dealer the other day to get those taken care of. Got it back today. They said that all parts checked okay, they did the software updates and added some sort of shield near the radiator intake. They said no sensors needed replacing and no reformer, DPF etc - all good.

Got the tractor home and noticed there's a plug left unplugged (male and female parts hanging loose) under the front edge of the seat - I'll call them tomorrow and ask about that.

Also don't see any deflector or shield by the intake - but am assuming that would be there to stop snow from entering and freezing air filter. I'll ask them about that too. Anyone have a picture of that deflector??

 

[Millennial]

Don't know if anybody has tackled this yet, I'm sure we could get some work done on this. I own a 2013 F350 6.7L Powerstroke that HAD the new DPF and DEF and EGR. Well what did I do because even though they claim they almost have it perfected, it's far from it. I tuned the truck and deleted the DPF, EGR and completely removed everything emissions related to my truck. Now that being said, I would call SCR or a custom tune company and I would bet that they could help you guys with getting rid of the DPFs on the tractors. I'll tell you, I guarantee these newer engines are beasts, you just had to get the emissions off of them to tell it. I don't really understand why tractors have to have DPFs anyways. Ford states that you SHOULD NOT use offroad diesel due to it messing up the DPF. This could play into some of the problems you guys are having, I don't know. Just something to think about. Before somebody harps on me for it being illegal, I don't care. It makes the engine run better, and your not driving your tractor to work on the highway. So W/E!

 

[bumper]

Starting in '07, diesel pickups came with DPF etc. and almost immediately, "DPF Delet" kits became available. Not so quickly, but just as surely, the EPA fined the largest purveyor of DPF Deletes $500,000 and required they buy back the product they'd sold. (I'm sure they didn't get many takers on the buy-back program.) All the other DPF Kit sellers took notice of the goings on and immediately stopped selling the kits.

Just try to find one for sale in the USA now - good luck. And you think someone is going to risk diving into that maelstrom of lawsuits and hassle for the meager profit that this splinter of a market represents?? I wish, but I don't think so.

Note too, that you can't just bypass sensors and replace DPF's with a bypass pipe or muffler. You also have to reprogram the computer and in the case of my B3350, retard the timing etc.

 

[yamatitan]

Starting in '07, diesel pickups came with DPF etc. and almost immediately, "DPF Delet" kits became available. Not so quickly, but just as surely, the EPA fined the largest purveyor of DPF Deletes $500,000 and required they buy back the product they'd sold. (I'm sure they didn't get many takers on the buy-back program.) All the other DPF Kit sellers took notice of the goings on and immediately stopped selling the kits.

Just try to find one for sale in the USA now - good luck. And you think someone is going to risk diving into that maelstrom of lawsuits and hassle for the meager profit that this splinter of a market represents?? I wish, but I don't think so.

Note too, that you can't just bypass sensors and replace DPF's with a bypass pipe or muffler. You also have to reprogram the computer and in the case of my B3350, retard the timing etc.

quick google search shows delete kits all over the web.

 

[bumper]

quick google search shows delete kits all over the web.

I love it when I'm wrong (about stuff like this), and I agree, it looks like they are out there. However, I didn't make this up. See:

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2013/01/epa-says-dont-touch-paticulate-filter.html

 

[Millennial]

Starting in '07, diesel pickups came with DPF etc. and almost immediately, "DPF Delet" kits became available. Not so quickly, but just as surely, the EPA fined the largest purveyor of DPF Deletes $500,000 and required they buy back the product they'd sold. (I'm sure they didn't get many takers on the buy-back program.) All the other DPF Kit sellers took notice of the goings on and immediately stopped selling the kits.

Just try to find one for sale in the USA now - good luck. And you think someone is going to risk diving into that maelstrom of lawsuits and hassle for the meager profit that this splinter of a market represents?? I wish, but I don't think so.

Note too, that you can't just bypass sensors and replace DPF's with a bypass pipe or muffler. You also have to reprogram the computer and in the case of my B3350, retard the timing etc.

There are numerous companies out there that offer tuning solutions for newer trucks. There are plenty of tuners to be found in every state. There is nothing that "retards the timing" when you program a vehicle or piece of equipment to remove the emissions. All you are doing is telling the computer that it doesn't need to check for emissions. You are really confused with the whole event, 500K wasn't the largest fine nor did the other tuning companies stop selling. They continued to sell and still continue to sell to this day. Starting with MY08 trucks(trucks that were 2008 models)is when Ford and all the other manufacturers made the switch with the 6.4L Powerstroke diesel to use DPFs WITHOUT Diesel Exhaust Fluid. Removing the emissions on any DPF engine makes the piece of equipment much more reliable.

 

[bumper]

There is nothing that "retards the timing" when you program a vehicle or piece of equipment to remove the emissions. All you are doing is telling the computer that it doesn't need to check for emissions.

No. At least on my B3350, injector timing is retarded beyond that for optimal efficiency and power. This is to get more unburnt fuel into the exhaust to raise temperatures for the DPF during normal operation. During regen, additional diesel fuel is injected directly into the exhaust downstream of the turbo to further raise temperatures in the DPF.

In doing a DPF delete, besides mechanical bypass and programming changes, injector timing would need to be advanced if one wants to regain all the lost efficiency and power.

 

[ItBmine]

I don't know if this would work on the Kubota's. At least you would think they would have less complex computers than automobiles. But I have read some diesel vehicles you can get away with leaving everything intact, but just drill out the DPF so it never detects back pressure, thus it won't call for a regen.

Like I said, I have never tested that and have no idea, but I have read many times people in Europe have done it with their diesel cars.
I'm just not sure if there is something that "reads" the exhaust on the Kubota that would detect it not being as clean as it would be passing through the DPF?

I have contacted one of the big tuning companies here that does delete's but never got any reply. They do big ag tractors, but have no fixes for the compacts.

 

[bumper]

ItBmine,

I don't know either. I've read many of those European posts about drilling DPF's to reduce back pressure.

Many of he systems look at back pressure with one or two sensors to measure Delta-P, temperature sensors, and some may have an elapsed time or mileage override on the sensors.

My B3350 has two temp sensors in the DPF proper, a pressure sensor ahead of the DPF, and no sensors after so no Delta-P (differential pressure) and nothing reading the quality, or lack thereof, of the post exhaust stream. I know some of the larger Kubota tractors monitor pressure both sides of the DPF.

I did unscrew the DPF temp sensors (one was incredibly tight, even using 50/50 acetone and ATF to loosen threads) - I replaced both adding hi-temp nickel anti-seize on the threads so maybe if it comes down to playing with it, I'll still have access.

While the warranty is still there, it's probably a really bad idea to attack the DPF with a large drill - even if it richly deserves it.

 

[ItBmine]

No, I wouldn't risk warranty. But when the time comes to replace a DPF might be worth a try "experimenting" with it if you had time before it has to returned for the core charge. (if Kubota even does that? I know they take the ones on my big truck for core.)

Would be even nicer if one day they just perfected the system so we don't even have to think about it.

 

[bumper]

ItBmine,

I understand that there is an off-tractor manual cleaning process as well, though not sure if Kubota offers that or just does a swap out. They are pricey, I was told $2,500 or there'bouts. They are also serial numbered, so if you mess with it and then try to trade it in for "core" . . .

So, the jury's still out and is likely going to be for awhile, give the age of these units (still under warranty), and their limited number (less likely to attract computer savvy DPF bypassers). And the fact that we are unlikely to see much shrinkage in the EPA for at least 1 1/2 years - if then.

 

[Shadow]

The 3350's DPF is non serviceable, can't be cleaned.

 

[MisterScott]

Well, I just took delivery of a 3350. My dealer tried to talk me out of it and to go with the 26 but I live at 8,000 feet. Has anyone found a DPF delete kit for these tractors and/or a turbo kit. They make turbo kits for the RTV1140. I am more interested in ripping the DPF off. Scofflaw that I am. I have had two Ram Cummins 6.7 that I hit a big bump and all that stuff fell off.

 

[bumper]

If you add a turbo, your's will be the first hot, "Twin Turbo" B3350, as it has one turbocharger already .

There's a computer that monitors DPF temperatures, pre-DPF exhaust pressure, but not post DPF pressure (no Delta-P) as in some of the bigger tractors - and the display doesn't tell you what the percentage of DPF loading is, so Auto Regens are mostly a suprise (not very convenient, but I have stopped them with no issues, usually right away if I am not going to be running the tractor for long enough for it to finish). The injection timing is retarded to increase exhaust temperatures so the DPF works better. If the DPF were to fall off, the injection would want to be advanced for better power and economy.

I don't know if any DPF removal kits or parts or computer re-mapping. But we can hope.