yup, EVs are soooo great...

GreensvilleJay

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It's not just the guv 'cherry picking information to promote EVs as the greatest thing since sliced bread. While flippign channels on the TV last night ,saw the new VW EV commercial. Little old lady gets into the new VW EV and does donuts in the parking lot ! I don't think she was from Pasadena BUT what I found totally offensive was....1 ) a disclaimer in micro font, that the vehicle had been MODIFIED to do the donuts and 2) a disclaimer in micro font that the EV was NOT for sale in Canada !!
That commercial should NOT have been allowed to be aired. Period !!!
Yes, I'm old enough to have ridden in battery powered milk delivery vans, did energy 'harvesting' 6 decades ago and cut code to optimize remote control energy mgmt systems.
The problem with EVs is they do not REPLACE the ICE vehicles of today.They don't go as far on a fillup, die in Winter, can't carry as much, and cost more to repair IF you can get parts.Oh yeah, cost more out the door too !
 

mikester

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it's not unheard of.

When I said "buy a golf cart and use it a while"--in order to "get your feet wet" with electric vehicles, I wasn't lying, but a few of you shook your head and said "you're an idiot".

I knew what I was talking about. I work on them at my day job and my side hustle; along with other EV's.

With golf cars, I buy and sell a few. When I find one for sale, the very first question is "how old are the batteries". If they're under a year old and seller has documentation, and they are good batteries, the value just increased dramatically. However, if they're dead, or old (or old and dead), I have to budget for new batteries and gamble on whether the MCU and motor are any count. A motor can be anywhere from $800 to $4500. MCU from $600 to $2500. Batteries, depends on the car, but typically $900 to $2000 for a set. So it's entirely possible to spend $5000 fixing a golf cart that's worth maybe $3000 on the used market. If it's just batteries, for instance on the Yamaha Drive models (G29, etc), a set of 6 8v batteries is about $2400 if you get good ones. The cart is worth, maybe $3000 on the used market, maybe a little more if it's CLEAN (looking brand new-which is rarer than frog fur). So, potentially a used electric cart with unknown batteries (or no batteries) is worth maybe $200-$300 and that assumes that a buyer is actually willing to buy it, and many (most) aren't.

When we get into EV utility vehicles that are using Li-Fe-Po batteries, the twin battery pack is about $20,000 to replace. The new unit is $30,000 and goes up from there depending on the options. Exactly zero people are willing to spend 20 grand on batteries to fix a 30 grand SxS, so once those batteries are gone, I would imagine that the value is close to zero. I predict this to be the case with cars too, as EV's become more prevalent. CURRENTly (LOL) the LiFePo batteries can be sold, there are buyers in I think Ukraine and other countries that buy them and take them apart, making cordless power tool batteries, and sometimes they use the parts to make drone batteries. But here in the USA, there is currently little to no market for them that I know of. Our battery supplier at work will not take them, they are a liability. Lithium batteries can (and sometimes do) fail in such a way that the BMS (which is built into the battery itself) will lose control over the discharge of the battery-and lithium batteries can discharge thousands of amps, all at once, which most of the time results in a runaway fire that is VERY hard to extinguish. Battery supplier said they have had them do this in their truck, which burned FLA batteries that were on the truck, resulting in the entire truck being a total loss-along with the road it was sitting on being melted due to the extreme heat.

If I have to replace a lithium battery (thankfully it's pretty rare), I can't do anything with them if the manufacturer doesn't want it back. Supplier won't take them, dump won't take them, nobody will take them so the only option I have is to crate it up and put it outside until we can find someone who will take them (even if we have to pay em). I have two boxed up outside as we speak and can't find anyone who'll currently take them.

These are the many challenges facing EV's that people don't talk about. There are a lot more challenges too, we'll work through them, but the first years are going to be a little rough.

also on EV's people often say "instant torque". In theory yes. In actuality, not hardly. Remember the MCU is what controls how much torque the motor makes. MCU=motor control unit. Basically you mash down on the gas pedal wanting that instant torque, if MCU sees no RPM, it will NOT give you instant torque-it's designed to protect the wiring, batteries, and motor from extremely high current and thus heat. Since I do SxS's and such, I can tell you that one SxS, if you have it in eco mode (which is where it should be all the time for the regen function to work), if you pull up to a 8" dia log laying on the trail, with a gas burner you just put it in low and climb over. With the EV unit, it will NOT climb over it if you come to a stop up against the log. The MCU protects how much current can go to the motor, so you get a little torque initially but if it doesn't see motor RPM or vehicle speed, it cuts the current and you sit still. You kinda have to back up a little, shift to low, and them get a little bit of a run at it. Frustrating but it is what it is. I'm sure someone will make a programmer for them to help with this but I can also guarantee you that motor failures and such won't be too far behind. OEM's have to protect their stuff, aftermarket doesn't have that kind of warranty so they couldn't care less about the motor and wiring. Just because you mash down on the gas pedal doesn't mean anything-it only means you're asking the MCU for torque, whether or not you actually get it is up to the MCU's programming. and one other note...with electric motors, the armatures have segments. If the motor is between segments while stopped, sometimes you will get no movement until the motor turns just a hair. Doesn't happen often but it does happen, and generally speaking, the cheaper the motor the more likely this is to happen.

Instant torque? Yeah I did a golf cart once where I could put all the amperage and all the voltage to the motor all at once. Remember I'm a drag racer and I "play" with things. It sheared the bolts off that hold the motor housing to the transaxle. Repaired that and the next time it ate all the splines right out of the motor armature. That's why the MCU controls the torque.
When you get software people and cell phone manufacturers designing cars you get un-repairable appliances and they expect you to throw it away and buy a new one. Planned obsolescence is their mantra.

My apple macbook pro was working great but after a few years it suddenly started shutting itself off at 95% battery level, even when plugged in. Turns out there is a software counter and once I hit the 1,000 recharges mark, the apple software automatically shuts down the macbook "for my convenience" and to ensure a "quality user experience". Also "for my convenience" I discovered that the batteries are un-replaceable because they are glued to the keyboard and aluminum top case and costs $800 to replace the assembly. But wait, after 5 years they stop selling parts...I have to buy a new laptop.

FU apple.

FU EV fan boys who say cars need to be more like cell phones and designed buy software people.
 

mikester

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I posted the Chrysler link as $55K for repair on ANY vehicle was a shocker to me ! The really, really BAD part is that two dealerships highly trained mechanics came up with TWO different diagnosis. You'd think factory training would be the same for all employees and well, this 'electric stuff' is kind of new ( 7 year old van) with lots of 'computers'. One says battery no good, other says it's fine. HELLO ? HOW can that be ?? Dang if he'd dragged it to a THIRD Chrysler dealership would he get a THIRD diagnosis ? It's not like you can go anywhere OTHER than the dealer for service,let alone work on EVs.
I'm pretty sure you can drain the oil out a gas engine and it NOT cost $55K to replace the engine.
I never saw the 'damage' under the Ionic, but have to wonder why there aren't skid plates though.
Know someone who found out that just have light marks on the 'frame' of a Tesla will void the battery warranty. Kid put jack there ,lightly up,forgot the special rubber, removed jack,put rubber in ,ZERO real damage but the 'circular scuff' was 'damage'..
Hay IF there was an EV that met my requirements for driving as cheap as gas, I'm all in. The basics, I drive less than 3000 miles a year, tow a 7K trailer 20-30 times a year, get fillups in 10 minutes, 2 door, short box pickup,like ice cold A/C and HOT defrosters.
If you want a real shocker go price out the cost to insure a new EV. My most recent quote is 2x to 3x more to insure a basic EV over a comparable priced PHEV or HEV.

If I buy an EV I will save 30% of my current gasoline costs which will save me about $400/yr. But now I have to spend an additional $2400/year to insure the EV because the insurer says they cost more and take longer to fix and repair.
 

fried1765

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The 12v batteries are usually cheaper. 8V and 6V are "usually" more. You only have 4 12v, but 6 8v or 8 6v for a 48v system. 8 6v gives more capacity, runs longer. 6 8v is the most common setup and FLA is the least expensive. There are AGM's too, and you can also get Lithium conversion$$$$
Actually, I have found that 6-8V would be cheaper (COSTCO), but the battery tray on my Club Car would not easily accommodate them.
 

lugbolt

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Actually, I have found that 6-8V would be cheaper (COSTCO), but the battery tray on my Club Car would not easily accommodate them.
interesting. I don't use costco, I'm a dealer tech so all ours are either OEM or OE equivalent. 8V $239/ea. 6v, $242/ea. 12v 199/ea, fixing to go up to 209 in April I'm told. I'd imagine that the 6 and 8v will also go up.

Plus labor of course, while one can physically change 6 8v batteries in about 20 minutes, that doesn't account for cleaning the mess underneath, painting, treating any rust, fixing corroded wirings, rusty hold-down repair/replacement/extraction, etc. Some of them get pretty expensive in that sense. THe old school Ranger EV comes to mind, guys overfill the batteries, they spew a little, and a little here and there over time rusts the frame out. Have one in my shop right now, broken/rusted frame. No fixing it either. It's in rough shape and I've told the customer it's unwise and not safe to try to repair. He's supposed to come get it. Been in this business a while, there's good possibility that it'll get abandoned. Had it happen before.
 

lugbolt

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If you want a real shocker go price out the cost to insure a new EV. My most recent quote is 2x to 3x more to insure a basic EV over a comparable priced PHEV or HEV.

If I buy an EV I will save 30% of my current gasoline costs which will save me about $400/yr. But now I have to spend an additional $2400/year to insure the EV because the insurer says they cost more and take longer to fix and repair.
This is true. I talked to the insurance co today and asked about this. 100% true. My mom was in the market for a new car. NEVER bought new, ever in her 76 years on Earth. Dad passed and she sold off all his toys and has enough for a new/cheap car. So we got to talking about what she wants, and for her needs, we came up with the Ford Maverick. We discussed electric, but as of right now, it's not a good choice for her. It might be ok for someone younger or middle aged who can adjust to the needs of EV; but for mom, gas is the right option.

also registration costs. Gas cars here are typically $25 to $40 depending on the weight. Add $220 to that for electric propulsion (EV). I asked why. EV's don't pay road fuel tax, so the state taxes them at the time of registration/licensing and every year thereafter.

neighbor's down the road are all electric and using solar panels for electricity at the house. Ain't going all that great; they still rely on the grid for high demand times. Their electric bill every month (according to them) averages $245. That's nice. Mine's $65 avg. Monthly fuel bill for my car is roughly $140-$200 depending on how much I drive (not usually that much anymore). Electricity usage to charge every day would be very close to that. So in my case, EV makes no sense-costs more.

Next issue which I've dealt with in the past. Charging. My house is on 100A service. I don't have room in the panel to add another breaker and circuit for a dedicated charger, so I'd have to charge on 110v 20A, which takes FOREVER to charge. I looked at L2 charging, which is 220/240v 50A. I need another circuit. I can't do that per NEC. Already maxed out. Best option is to upgrade to 200A, which also means they have to dig up and replace the underground conduit with larger 2" and 3/0 wire. Cost to do that, plus the panel, plus adding a NEMA 1450 receptacle in the garage? About $13,000 total. That effectively adds cost to the vehicle, since it's dedicated to the vehicle. People often forget about that, as my neighbor did. He charged on L1 charging for a while but on L1 your time to charge from discharged state, which happens on the daily commute, is slower than the time it takes to discharge. IOW, miles per charge is less than miles driven, so it stays on the charger immediately as soon as he gets home, charges all night, he leaves the house at 0730 next morning and by friday he's down to about 50% SOC-even after charging all night. HE's gotta have L2 receptacle put in, but his house is newer and he's got everything set to do it-the electrician just has to install a sub panel and a NEMA 14-50 receptacle in the garage. Could use 6-50, but 14-50 is a better, potentially safer option. I don't know the NEC, it may be required-dunno (?)
 

NorthwoodsLife

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My humble, 5 cents worth....

All this over: "The sky is falling" mentality of certain politicians. Here we are. Industries destroyed. Everyone running to electric.

Now we know that with our current technology we still need oil and coal to burn. We burn that to create energy for EV's. So, it's a lost cause as far as the environment is concerned. If you believe in the global warming causes the politicians spew.

In my grade school days, (1960's), we watched a cartoon about the "the sky is falling".

It's here, the sky is falling if you believe it. And it's not so funny if you believe it or not. Because we all are paying for the lie.

The world might go EV's everywhere, someday, long after I'm dead. I only hope it's after I'm dead! No offense to you who love EV's. Even I love golf carts.

I think Toyota has the right course with hydrogen vehicles. Tech is advancing and maybe it will be like the "Back to the Future" movie. With vehicles running and flying, on trash.

Although I was a huge fan of Toyota decades ago, I drive mostly American cars and trucks now, except for my smaller vehicles. ATVs, motorcycles and tractor, (Kubota), included. It's a heritage and working man thing. But I think Toyota and or others, in the USA and anywhere on earth, may find a solution. A solution to, a most likely non-existent problem that WE as humans cannot fix.... Global Warming.

The earth goes through cycles of warming and cooling. It's in history. Dinosaurs died. Froze to death. So, they say. I don't think dinosaurs drove gas eating smog vehicles. But I could be wrong. Maybe they farted too much.

Seriously, It's planetary and far beyond our control. Global warming, if it exists, wasn't caused by cow farts, forest fires or car exhaust. It is caused by the natural cycle of the earth.
 
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D2Cat

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acruxksa

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As an EV owner in Alaska for a bit over 2yrs and almost 29,000 miles, I have several observations.

1st) it's my wife car and not mine but it's been trouble free the entire time. She drives about 13k miles per year, but over %90 of that is within 50miles of our house.

2nd) it's far cheaper so far than gas. We've saved about $4k in gas vs electric to date. No it wasn't much more than her 2016 Volvo xc90 and certainly cheaper when you consider the Volvo needed a new engine at 53k mile (3k mile out of warranty). Then a new turbo at 61k miles...... Of note here is it had an impeccable maintenance record, all done by Volvo. An insulater on the #4 spark plug apparently broke off and took out the cylinder. Volvo eventually covered a short block after it sat at the dealership for 4 months, but we had over $10k in repairs to the turbo and various items they replaced before they diagnosed the cylinder damage...... Sad really, because that was a great car right up until it wasn't. They eventually bought it back from us at a fair price, but the hoops they made is jump through kind of soured me towards Volvo after that.

3rd) I would never buy an all electric as an only vehicle, but if you have a garage, it might make sense as a second vehicle if your driving habits are similar to my wife's. In our case, we use my 20yr old Tahoe or 1.5yr old Ford hybrid or 40yr old jeep for longer road trips. ;)

4th) Ive driven it hundreds of miles in -16f temps and am not a fan (Homer, AK to Anchorage, AK. 225 miles, through two mountain passes). The charging infrastructure in Alaska is not even close to being able to adequately support electric vehicles for anything but charge at home nightly commuter vehicles. However, it's been trouble free around town in sub zero temperatures.


Lastly) there's so much BS out there for and against these things that I would be skeptical of nearly all of it. ;). Generally they aren't as good or bad as people say, just depends on the use case.
 

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GreensvilleJay

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OK, I'm curious...
what EV do you have in Alaska ?
what's the cost of electricity ?
how long to recharge the EV ?
is car stored in heated garage ?

I Know it gets cold up there !
 

fried1765

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interesting. I don't use costco, I'm a dealer tech so all ours are either OEM or OE equivalent. 8V $239/ea. 6v, $242/ea. 12v 199/ea, fixing to go up to 209 in April I'm told. I'd imagine that the 6 and 8v will also go up.

Plus labor of course, while one can physically change 6 8v batteries in about 20 minutes, that doesn't account for cleaning the mess underneath, painting, treating any rust, fixing corroded wirings, rusty hold-down repair/replacement/extraction, etc. Some of them get pretty expensive in that sense. THe old school Ranger EV comes to mind, guys overfill the batteries, they spew a little, and a little here and there over time rusts the frame out. Have one in my shop right now, broken/rusted frame. No fixing it either. It's in rough shape and I've told the customer it's unwise and not safe to try to repair. He's supposed to come get it. Been in this business a while, there's good possibility that it'll get abandoned. Had it happen before.
I believe that we are talking about some VERY different 12v golf car batteries!
My Club Car has four T-1275 Trojans, for a 48v supply.
They are being sold online at $398 each.
I would sure like to be able to buy the required 4 of them at your..... "$199/ea., fixing to go up to $209 in April".
No rusting issue on Club Car.
It is aluminum.(but does also corrode, if not cared for).
 

acruxksa

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OK, I'm curious...
what EV do you have in Alaska ?
what's the cost of electricity ?
how long to recharge the EV ?
is car stored in heated garage ?

I Know it gets cold up there !
Audi E-Tron 2022
$0.22/KWh (electric company says $0.135/KWh but by the time all the fees are added........)

10Kw level 2 charger in our garage (95KWh battery, but audi only uses 87KWh for longevity) so functionally, about 9hrs to fully charge from zero, but typically we don't charge past %90 and it's rarely below %20

Range with winter tires and cold weather is about %25 less than in the summer with all season tires and warmer weather. Regardless, fully charged every morning when she leaves the garage.

Sitting out all day in below zero temps while she's at work doesn't seem to affect it much. My wife just fires up the heat via her phone and everything is good to go when she's ready. Also has an option to pre schedule heating, or keep heating when she parks and runs into a store, etc.

**Note** I saw the news reports of all the EV's "freezing" several weeks ago. All I can say about that is, my Gen-Z kids can barely keep their cellphones charged...........an EV is probably too much responsibility. :p As i said in my first post in this thread, They make sense in some situations. Primarily IF you have a garage/carport/parking space to charge it in overnight. They will heat themselves as needed and precondition the vehicle prior to departure if scheduled.

Gas prices are $3.50-$3.90/gallon depending on grade of fuel. (have been higher and lower though) Her Volvo used to require premium, so $3.90/gal and averaged 16.3 mpg, less in the winter because she'd auto start it to warm it up at work before leaving. Closer to 15mpg during the winter. Will call it 15.8mpg 13000/15.8x$3.9=$3200 + $312 ( $1200 for all oil changes up to 50k miles)

13000/miles per year/1.9KWh per mile x $0.22/KWh = $1505/yr. Typically we get 2.2 to 2.4miles per KWh in the summer and 1.6 to 1.7 in the winter so I'm using 1.9

Zero maintenance cost to date for E-Tron 2.25yrs in service (I don't count winter tires purchase because I buy winter tires for all our vehicles)
$3500-1500 = $2000/yr

Both vehicles were within $5k ($77k vs $72.5k) of each other on price so costs are just about evened out now ( not quite because I have another $600 invested in a home charger). Audi has a very conservative battery charging profile and an 8yr warranty on the battery. We typically replace her car before 100k miles, so around the 6-7yr mark.

For me, I don't care how old my car is but when I'm away from home (I work 120days/yr and can be off grid for weeks at a time) I need to know my wife's car is solid, so she gets a new one more frequently;)
 
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P0234

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Its really not shocking that a bunch of people on a tractor forum would be afraid of technology. All modern cars can get totalled for any of number of things. Drive that 75k pickup truck into some deep water and tell me what happens.
 
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North Idaho Wolfman

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Its really not shocking that a bunch of people on a tractor forum would be afraid of technology. All modern cars can get totalled for any of number of things. Drive that 75k pickup truck into some deep water and tell me what happens.
Just as a side note: If you seen our house, you would see I'm not afraid of, or shy away from technology. ;)
 

rc51stierhoff

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Its really not shocking that a bunch of people on a tractor forum would be afraid of technology. All modern cars can get totalled for any of number of things. Drive that 75k pickup truck into some deep water and tell me what happens.
That’s a bit harsh honestly. This forum is full of some technical and mechanical geniuses….sadly I am not one of them😉. The straw man arguments in this thread are pretty impressive as well.

I assume there is some awareness that EVs have been around longer than petrol vehicles, correct? (That’s a fact if not sure).

Is there some awareness as to why petrols won out in past century? What’s the change point that makes the EVs a better option for people (improving users life) today than before the start of the 20th century?

YMMV. 🥃
 

lugbolt

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I believe that we are talking about some VERY different 12v golf car batteries!
My Club Car has four T-1275 Trojans, for a 48v supply.
They are being sold online at $398 each.
I would sure like to be able to buy the required 4 of them at your..... "$199/ea., fixing to go up to $209 in April".
No rusting issue on Club Car.
It is aluminum.(but does also corrode, if not cared for).
yup Trojan T1275's are $390/ea. I can get some chincanese batteries for about $200 ea, but they are JUNK. No warranty on them, even though the supplier says otherwise (pain to deal with, and not worth the hassle). I think they're blem's personally but I have not asked. Don't sell a whole lot of them because "most" golf car customers want something reliable; and I don't blame em.

T875 is $416 (trojan 8v).

Didnt price 6v, we don't see many of those anymore (thankfully)

Did a ranger EV (old school) today. 8 of the T1275 Trojans. Cable kit. $4700, tax labor and all. Get about 5 years out of a set if you take care of them.

I don't like using trojan. Warranty is a pain to deal with. Use interstate quite a bit, same price same dealer cost, much easier to deal with when warranty time comes. So far haven't had to use it much. Once earlier this year on one of my personal group 65 batteries from my truck, but that's it. Painless, aside from having to install them.

Ranger EV batteries...suck to install. 8 of those things, 85 lb ea x 8. One at a time.

had to put a lithium battery in a yamaha car last year, $4700. BMS died, wouldn't do anything. Battery itself doesnt' cost "that" much, but the hit us with a disposal fee, and hazmat shipping costs LTL. Luckily Yamaha picked up the tab on it.
 

fried1765

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yup Trojan T1275's are $390/ea. I can get some chincanese batteries for about $200 ea, but they are JUNK. No warranty on them, even though the supplier says otherwise (pain to deal with, and not worth the hassle). I think they're blem's personally but I have not asked. Don't sell a whole lot of them because "most" golf car customers want something reliable; and I don't blame em.

T875 is $416 (trojan 8v).

Didnt price 6v, we don't see many of those anymore (thankfully)

Did a ranger EV (old school) today. 8 of the T1275 Trojans. Cable kit. $4700, tax labor and all. Get about 5 years out of a set if you take care of them.

I don't like using trojan. Warranty is a pain to deal with. Use interstate quite a bit, same price same dealer cost, much easier to deal with when warranty time comes. So far haven't had to use it much. Once earlier this year on one of my personal group 65 batteries from my truck, but that's it. Painless, aside from having to install them.

Ranger EV batteries...suck to install. 8 of those things, 85 lb ea x 8. One at a time.

had to put a lithium battery in a yamaha car last year, $4700. BMS died, wouldn't do anything. Battery itself doesnt' cost "that" much, but the hit us with a disposal fee, and hazmat shipping costs LTL. Luckily Yamaha picked up the tab on it.
I consider that I take very good care of my T-1275 batteries, by religiously checking water levels, and keeping a 48v very low amp. maintenance charger, attached all Winter.
I am thinking 7 year life.
 
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jimh406

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I find it funny that some think pointing out obvious issues with EVs makes the person saying it nontechnical or afraid of technology. I think people would be surprised to find out what the technical backgrounds are of the people making the points on these "hobby" forums.

There are some of us who answer the technology questions of our 30 something old kids and their grandkids. It's not the other way around.

Just a reminder that most of the foundations for the technical advances were created decades ago by mostly boomers or those almost that age group ... not by the 20/30 year olds who weren't even born yet.
 
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NorthwoodsLife

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Its really not shocking that a bunch of people on a tractor forum would be afraid of technology. All modern cars can get totalled for any of number of things. Drive that 75k pickup truck into some deep water and tell me what happens.
Not afraid of technology here. Love it. But I am afraid of an overreaching government. Forcing a false reason to eliminate internal combustion engines. And their solution is in a way that makes just as much, or even more pollution than our current high tech internal combustion engines do.

Example: Diesel regen, just makes the black smelly exhaust particles small enough to be invisible. BUT they NOW are small enough to seep into your skin.

Instead of just you smelling and breathing a little of it. Now, it's all over you and invisible. It used to just fall to the ground.

I'm a tech fan myself.

It's not a really a conflict of technology. It's a conflict of Control. Because of overreaching Gov environmental lies. Those guys know just enough to be dangerous to all of us. They've been given enough rope through regulations to hang themselves. And all of us.

I love for you all to enjoy your EV's if it's what makes you happy. Plug them in. Never buy gas. Go for it. You are free to do so. Because of the freedom provided by a free state / Gov / Country.

Just don't force the lie down my throat and say it's for the better good when the solution doesn't solve the imagined problem of.... "The sky is falling".
 
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DustyRusty

Well-known member

Equipment
2020 BX23S, BX2822 Snowblower, Curtis Deluxe Cab,
Nov 8, 2015
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113
North East CT
Courtesy of AI:

German engineer Andreas Flocken built the first real electric car in 1888. Electric trains were also used to transport coal out of mines, as their motors did not use up precious oxygen. Before the pre-eminence of internal combustion engines, electric automobiles also held many speed and distance records.

By 1900, in the United States, 38% of US automobiles, 33,842 cars, were powered by electricity (40% were powered by steam, and 22% by gasoline). This information might sound like some crackpot Internet hoax, but if you look at the sources, you can easily see they are credible. The US Dept.
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