Yard Prep?

[TomRC]

Toward the end of summer / early fall I’ve got to prep an area about an acre that is currently bare dirt to plant KY31 to become my front and back yard. Extensive grading was required to build house / barn pads and septic field. In late spring this area was a muddy mess and now its baked out compressed and HARD. I’m moving from Georgia and this property is in western KY so I’m not overly knowledgeable of the soil type but I’m trying to figure out the best way to prep the soil so I can plant KY31. Also about to buy a tractor. Not sure which tractor yet but it will be a 25hp Kubota. My initial thought was just to till it all up, spread seed and cultipack but now I wondering if a tiller is the right answer. Should I use a tiller or take a different approach like using a disc harrow to not destroy the soil structure and then run over the area with a box blade / land rake or drag a log around to break up the clumps left from the disc to prepare a good seed bed. I’m out in the country so not looking for an Augusta National yard just trying to figure out the best approach to prep this dirt to get some grass growing later this year. About to buy tractor and implements and want to buy the best implements for the job. Thanks for any input!

 

[Captain13]

I have just had a similar situation with some property here in Georgia. Instead of red clay, it is that grey gumbo clay that gets extremely hard and a box blade will not cut into it. The scarifiers dig in but not the blade due to the hardness. The box blade is a Woods BSM84 that weighs about 750 lbs. Finally, I hooked up the harrow and broke it up. Several passes and it was broken up with Only some minor clumps. At that point, I needed a rock rake but I don’t have one. So I just set up the box blade for leveling and it did the trick. Grass is already growing in and it looks just fine.

 

[Magicman]

Since you had to do "Extensive grading was required to build house", I would hope that you could get some "barnyard or chicken house" to spread and till into the bare dirt.

 

[TomRC]

Having lived in Georgia my entire life I'm unfamiliar with the soil (will get a soil test) but its yellowish soil that compacts hard similar to nasty Georgia red clay. I'm about to finalize tractor / implement purchase and I started thinking this compacted hard soil (not to many rocks though) will beat a tiller to death and its my understanding that a tiller can really destroy the soil structure. I watched a video the other day of a guy who used a disc in hard soil ended up with the typical clumps and very uneven but drug a big log over it and had a finished area that while not as smooth as a tiller looked more than smooth enough and ready for seed. That's what got me thinking I may be better off with a disc and yard rake instead of a tiller????

 

[Magicman]

I would thouroughly subsoil it to break up the hard pan so that moisture can penetrate. On new ground such as that, I would crosshatch.

 

[Captain13]

The clay layer here is down about 6 inches to a foot. I could move the topsoil fine but whene I reached the clay it was literally like a paved road. The harrows turned out to be the only thing I had to break it up. A friend of mine did the same thing and made a drag out of a chain link fence gate and put a couple of timbers on it for weight and that broke up all his clumps. Since I have done all this work, the field is drawing well after a hard rain and the grass is taking off like never before.

 

[TomRC]

Thanks the subsoiler makes sense. So are ya'll thinking subsoiler and tiller or subsoiler and disc and then something (box blade, land rake, drag log) to break up clumps from disc.

Tractor will be a 25hp Kubota.

 

[UpNorthMI]

Thanks the subsoiler makes sense. So are ya'll thinking subsoiler and tiller or subsoiler and disc and then something (box blade, land rake, drag log) to break up clumps from disc.

Tractor will be a 25hp Kubota.

Tomrc,
You may to consider Everything Attachments for sub soiler, well made and with shear bolt. EA also make a land shark scarifier for breaking up ground, after first year of use you may get away with a tiller to process top soil for planting. Chain drag from TSC does a nice finish and smoothes out ground to seed, can also be used to cover seed. You will be buying L2501 if this is your anticipated use.

Good luck

 

[RCW]

Tom - spoken from experience, it can be a challenge to establish a lawn on clay. One thing to consider is addition of some organic material, like topsoil, peat moss, or something similar to top dress at least in the immediate area of the house.

I don’t know Kentucky by any means, but I tried to get something for the seed to root into in upstate New York a few years ago

All sticky stuff:.... I did not get stuck....

Added some topsoil and peat moss:

With straw, fertilizer, lime:

 

[TomRC]

I say its clay but I really don't know. Moving from Georgia just not familiar with the yellowish brown soil in western Kentucky. Did however drop off a soil sample at an extension office this morning so will be interested to get the report back. I'll get a sub soiler just got to figure out whether a disc or tiller is the way to go. Sounds like discs work better on BIG tractors, tillers on smaller ones. Not sure on tractor yet but it will be 25hp.

 

[Magicman]

I would not be overly concerned about the clods at this point. Your objective is to break up the hardpan and allow moisture to penetrate.

I move over a rear tractor tire width and the tires will start smashing the clods as you make additional passes.

As you progress across the area it appears to have been tilled/disked.

Now it is ready to be disked.

 

[BigG]

A tiller will work but the soil will be pulverized and may pack back down and be very hard. The sub-soiler is probably a good idea when run in a cross hatch pattern. If you can get a hold of a disk it wold be a good idea. I have a piece of I-beam that I drag to smooth things. The bedspring or piece of chain link fence will work nicely to blend the ground. It will also work well to make the contact between the soil and seed better. If you can not find a culipacker you could use a flat roller as your last step.

Before you start disking you may want to add organic material to the clay to make it less compactible. Saw dust, shredded leaves, peat moss or top soil will help.

Good luck and pictures of before and after are required

 

[Magicman]

Yup, you need organic tilled into the soil. See reply #3.

 

[TomRC]

Thanks for the input. Makes me think a subsoiler and disc may be a wiser choice than the tiller!

Will a smaller 25hp Kubota like a B2601 struggle to pull a subsoiler?

 

[BigG]

Yup, you need organic tilled into the soil. See reply #3.

A different mind set. When I was growing up there were no more large chicken houses nearby. The town would bring leaves by the dump truck load and dump them for our clay filled gardens. Sawmills were common and the dust was a waste product at the time and several places loaded it for free.

I even worked on a ranch here in Florida where the city paid the owner to dump tanker trucks of affluent water on to the fields. Boy did that "green" up the fields. It would happen pretty much over night.

 

[Magicman]

Don't overdo it with fresh, think "uncomposted" sawdust. It will steal nitrogen from the soil as it goes through the composting stage. Yes some is OK to help keep the clay loose.

 

[Tornado]

I dont know how helpful my advice will be on this topic given youre ground is likely substantially different than mine here in North Florida, but over the past year one of my major projects on my property is converting woods to yard. Its a major conversion, as the woods are thick in places, and have giant trees and stumps, tons of rotted and matted ground clutter. The last step is to plant grass seed in these areas. Im at the point now where I am planting the seed in many areas. Im about 20 days now into one large patch that germinated and broke through on day 7 after planted, which was excellent. Ive done all of this ground work largely with one main tool - Disc Harrow. This is of course after I have drug off all the leaves and matted crap on the top of the ground and scraped it down to bare dirt using a box blade. A freaking love my disc harrow. I was torn on getting a disc or getting a tiller, but went with a disc as it was safer to use it in the woods and in rough terrain with lots of roots and crap. If I take enough passes over something it essentially will have the same result as a tiller.

So my general process is to disc these areas Ive cleared several times, turn the ground to pure powder. I am working with sandy soil here though so this happens fast for me - and this is the difference for me. Just for reference on the soil Im working with - we got 11 inches of rain in 24 hours the other weekend from that sub tropical system that hit the south down here. Within 1-2 hours of the rain stopping all the puddles were gone here. Water leaches extremely fast, as its mostly all sand. The downside is little nutrients. But, for breaking ground its probably as easy here as anywhere. So, I disc it over, turn it to powder - to where walking over the area your feat just sink into the ground with each step. I then made a little drag using some lumber or an old fence post and drag it all level, then I plant my grass seed, then drag it over again just to cover the seeds with dirt.

How well would a disc harrow work on hard/clay? I dont really know. I know for my application here in florida a disc is a fantastic tool. I can pull it all in the woods and just break ground, mulch leaves into the dirt, its just a fantastic ground engaging churning tool. I also recently used it in a horse pasture to till me a 10,000 sf area for a new garden, and it broke up the thick bahia grass with ease. I just love how indestructible it is and how efficient it is. Drop it and go. Dont have to worry about damaging anything or hitting a bad root or something like I may with a tiller. It is perhaps a little slower than a tiller at prepping an area for planting but it gets the job done, and is more versatile to me than a tiller given I can drop it in all sorts of areas. Obviously Im recommending you look hard at a good, heavy disc harrow. Weight here is important though. The one Im pulling is actually rated as being too large for my L2501, but ive pulled it without any problem.

 

[Magicman]

Thanks for the input. Makes me think a subsoiler and disc may be a wiser choice than the tiller!

Will a smaller 25hp Kubota like a B2601 struggle to pull a subsoiler?

This process is not something that you should ever have to do again so I would investigate hiring someone with a larger tractor e/w a subsoiler to do your initial breaking. After that you should be able to complete the process with either a disc, tiller, or whatever.

 

[TomRC]

Tornado......really appreciate your advice here and with regard to my "which tractor to buy thread". You may think I'm crazy but with only about 4 acres of pasture and 3/4 or acre of so of yard I'm leaning towards buying the 2601 over the LX or the L2501. Fella up the road maintains his place VERY WELL and his property is very similar to mine and he does it all with a little BX23s....and he LOVES the BX. I may regret getting the B2601 down the road but I'm running into all sorts of cost overruns on my house / barn, etc and while $3k isn't much of difference when you take into account the tractor and the implements I need right out of the gate the cost is a factor combined with seeing all that GP Outdoors does with his B2601. Haven't made the FINAL tractor decision yet, probably in the next 30 days though.

I like the idea of running a crosshatch pattern with a subsoiler then hit it with the disc. Tell me something though is there anything specific to look for in one companies disc over another. CAN"T BELIEVE how much Landpride charges for their disc compared to EA and others. Are some companies discs easier to add additional weight too (section of a log, barbell weights, etc) or a different design of a disc that make one disc more efficient than others? My only other concern is if the B2601 can pull a subsoiler. I see Magicman's comment that a 25hp might struggle with a subsoiler but I've also seen some tiny JD's pulling subsoilers?? Subsoiler seems like a good implement to deal with water drainage issues down the road and the cost of a subsoiler and disc is about a wash with a good tiller.

Thanks again, the input is really helpful.

 

[NHSleddog]

I bought the 5' Titan disc harrow and for the money, I liked it more that the EA (and I really like EA and own their stuff as well).

The Titan was all box frame and cast mounts for the wheels. I have used it about 25 hours now, no noticeable wear.

FYI - It is NOT QH compatible. The bottom mounts are fine, but the top link will need to be modified. Titan told me over the phone it was. It showed up and wasn't. I made the mod so it would be a pick and drop.