XG850 Starter replacement

[bmcf]

PSB-2020-034-E-R1 issued on March 16, 2020
It replaces the starter solenoid relay and positive battery cables.
It is a Fix when Failure only, and is good for 5 years from the date of purchase.

Hi!, I am having the same issue on my 2020 RTV-XG850. Would you happen to have a copy of the PSB? My dealer claims no knowledge. Thank you!

 

[whitetiger]

Hi!, I am having the same issue on my 2020 RTV-XG850. Would you happen to have a copy of the PSB? My dealer claims no knowledge. Thank you!

All your dealer has to do is log into their Kubotalink and put PSB-2020-034 in the search line. It will bring up the PSB in its entirety.

Check your private messages for more info.

 

[bmcf]

All your dealer has to do is log into their Kubotalink and put PSB-2020-034 in the search line. It will bring up the PSB in its entirety.

Check your private messages for more info.

Thank you!

 

[Tashier]

I am now dealing with this as well. Starter is toast, magnets are all over the place and shattered. I've found a PDF on Mitsubas website that details the starters.

https://www.mitsuba.co.jp/en/vpep/products/product_details/starter_details.html

I haven't really figured out a direction to take on this as I'm not gonna pay $800 for this tiny little failure of a starter.

 

[Tashier]

re: throwaway society

read between the lines here. Stuff costs. a lot. Particularly OEM stuff. Ask yourself why?

Along comes the chinamen who make cheap and inexpensive replacements. They're less expensive and that's what we buy on-price. "I ain't payin $700 for a starter that I can get on amazon (or whatever) for $100".

and thus, it's cheaper to throw the old starter out, put a $100 starter on it 6 times than it is to pay $700 for a starter. Right?

From a dealer tech standpoint we have to look at that stuff too. Yes I've rebuilt lots of starters. Ain't particularly hard to do on "most" of them. However, to simply R&R a starter might be 1 hour labor (so $150 in our case). Plus the cost of the starter.

Or I can rebuild it. You still pay $150. Add in the cost of the brushes, armature, re-gluing the magnets if needed, which all adds labor to the cost. Then remember that a shop has a warranty on their work, so it HAS to be right, because the owner is very likely to have some kind of problem later on, be it a dead battery or a fouled spark plug, or a flat tire-and he will REMEMBER that you replaced the starter in April of 2024 and then the shop gets to eat the cost of the flat tire and probably a wheel too. That is how people often are, unfortunately.

So now you're at close to $600 and are gonna likely eat another cost later on down the road. Or you can put a $700 starter on it for $150 in labor and if the starter fails later on, the dealer can pass the liability onto the manufacturer rather than having to eat it themselves. THAT is why things have gone to "throwaway" status-it simply costs too much to repair stuff like the old days.

We shop guys try to keep the costs down as much as possible for the end user, keeping in mind the liability, the future costs, the aggravation, and a whole bunch of other stuff too. In the end the decision is made, repair it or replace it. Most times it's less trouble for both the shop/tech and for the customer, to replace it.

In the case of engines, a lot of times they're fixable. But the cost to fix often exceeds the cost to just replace it-then the replacement may have a longer warranty on it too vs a shop guarantee which can be 14 days or 30 days or 90 days depends on the shop, and that that guarantee entails.

Any way you slice it this is not an $800 starter. I just did a starter on a 7.3L Diesel and its massive in size and complexity with gear reduction etc and it was half the price.

 

[lugbolt]

Any way you slice it this is not an $800 starter. I just did a starter on a 7.3L Diesel and its massive in size and complexity with gear reduction etc and it was half the price.

and there are millions and millions of them made, and the aftermarket has them covered in addition (which are often cheaply made, with the exception of Denso, which is an OEM, and about $400....I have one on mine). There are no aftermarket choices for Kubota XG850, at least that I know of, thus that's gonna allow the price of the OEM starter to remain the only option. Maybe you can build or source an aftermarket version, and try to sell enough of them to make a profit on. If that's the case, let us know how much they cost.

the 7.3's are still out there in numbers, in pickups and buses. My brother is a bus mechanic and sees a few of them to this day. UPS trucks still have a few too, among others. They're slowly going away. Slowly, but that is the result of so many of them still being out there. I own one, and will never own another diesel for personal use.

 

[bmcf]

I am now dealing with this as well. Starter is toast, magnets are all over the place and shattered. I've found a PDF on Mitsubas website that details the starters.

https://www.mitsuba.co.jp/en/vpep/products/product_details/starter_details.html

I haven't really figured out a direction to take on this as I'm not gonna pay $800 for this tiny little failure of a starter.

The local Kubota parts guy told me it "happens frequently". Unfortunately, Kubota hasn't done anything about it.

 

[atomburst]

I am getting the run around from my local dealer. I can't find the psb. Does it go past the warranty period. They say it does not. Any help appreciated.
Can I just replace the starter? $600 just for that.
80 hours on the sidekick.

 

[whitetiger]

I am getting the run around from my local dealer. I can't find the psb. Does it go past the warranty period. They say it does not. Any help appreciated.
Can I just replace the starter? $600 just for that.
80 hours on the sidekick.

PSB covers the failure for 5 years from the original purchase date.
The PSB is not for the starter itself but for the solenoid or relay that powers it.

 

[atomburst]

re: throwaway society

read between the lines here. Stuff costs. a lot. Particularly OEM stuff. Ask yourself why?

Along comes the chinamen who make cheap and inexpensive replacements. They're less expensive and that's what we buy on-price. "I ain't payin $700 for a starter that I can get on amazon (or whatever) for $100".

and thus, it's cheaper to throw the old starter out, put a $100 starter on it 6 times than it is to pay $700 for a starter. Right?

From a dealer tech standpoint we have to look at that stuff too. Yes I've rebuilt lots of starters. Ain't particularly hard to do on "most" of them. However, to simply R&R a starter might be 1 hour labor (so $150 in our case). Plus the cost of the starter.

Or I can rebuild it. You still pay $150. Add in the cost of the brushes, armature, re-gluing the magnets if needed, which all adds labor to the cost. Then remember that a shop has a warranty on their work, so it HAS to be right, because the owner is very likely to have some kind of problem later on, be it a dead battery or a fouled spark plug, or a flat tire-and he will REMEMBER that you replaced the starter in April of 2024 and then the shop gets to eat the cost of the flat tire and probably a wheel too. That is how people often are, unfortunately.

So now you're at close to $600 and are gonna likely eat another cost later on down the road. Or you can put a $700 starter on it for $150 in labor and if the starter fails later on, the dealer can pass the liability onto the manufacturer rather than having to eat it themselves. THAT is why things have gone to "throwaway" status-it simply costs too much to repair stuff like the old days.

We shop guys try to keep the costs down as much as possible for the end user, keeping in mind the liability, the future costs, the aggravation, and a whole bunch of other stuff too. In the end the decision is made, repair it or replace it. Most times it's less trouble for both the shop/tech and for the customer, to replace it.

In the case of engines, a lot of times they're fixable. But the cost to fix often exceeds the cost to just replace it-then the replacement may have a longer warranty on it too vs a shop guarantee which can be 14 days or 30 days or 90 days depends on the shop, and that that guarantee entails.

The problem I have is really on Kubota. The kit I just purchased with the solenoid/relay and the replacement wire's no way should cost that much. The solenoid is the most expensive in the kit and there is not way it should be more than $100. Even OEM. I'm pretty disappointed in Kubota. Wish I knew the warranty ran out in 2023. This sidekick is a POS. The worst Kubota product I've seen yet.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

If i needed a starter for a sidekick I would try this:

Defender HD5 2017-2021 Starter for CAN-AM 420-684-282 420-684-283 W/Bendix Relay | eBay

Traxter HD5 All Models(Base/T/T1B Series) 2018-2021. 1 Starter 1 Bendix 1 Relay.

www.ebay.com

Or this One:

https://www.amazon.com/Premier-Gear-PG-19089-Mitsuba-Professional/dp/B07FYXD2QW/ref=sr_1_7?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.IKUSDVubKO4cJL32W1gnUOblLM3K2wOvnOcgF2oOeglbeJJXYwzIYLmCwk2-0bqmoiqCwKkLXytHLrPg0Z1MBBCq4CH8jACSc9rIGhs4gtlv7dCzBVBjqUrv7qDGlOzucRd26BbwJyDepplNYTMzXnhYNV6UOBQCFlZ7gBlEG4rkuj5MeVijAGHPkKvx6KSWoaQlV6EER53z21pJ-YU9Ik9-N7PBAejBmdHJk91uxbz5da1zTboKWKgUTgpo7lYidar2vmSF1tL-sCSSrhkaki_9yU4ZAkOkD0ZqD8Et1uUATxjvtMtaTRcqdKLBMW5tE8nH9m3P6a0cqZPJnuLSRrE8iZrCSEUEtqJffWisBEF2EexkRM8gv_YhynXhM33vYFZg4R6UgmqXJ-JEt4n90NisHj-zKXs0IkbPToLU_fKS8qwK_k8BR6HW5S8OIqob.UHw6SY0kBa-xKZEEHjERSTGOq8oXJfIkGanlNN5kBEc&dib_tag=se&hvadid=631533478972&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=1016140&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=9529425776483758264&hvtargid=kwd-1432157826363&hydadcr=19201_13473122&keywords=mitsuba+sm17+starter&qid=1734579617&sr=8-7

Or this one:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CVR649G/ref=sspa_dk_hqp_detail_aax_0?psc=1&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9ocXBfc2hhcmVk

 

[lugbolt]

If i needed a starter for a sidekick I would try this:

Defender HD5 2017-2021 Starter for CAN-AM 420-684-282 420-684-283 W/Bendix Relay | eBay

Traxter HD5 All Models(Base/T/T1B Series) 2018-2021. 1 Starter 1 Bendix 1 Relay.

www.ebay.com

does a can-am starter fit a Kubota? Just curious.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

does a can-am starter fit a Kubota? Just curious.

I don't know, I'm just going by a lot of cross reference info.
If i need a starter that everyone say is going to run $800 and I might be able to pull it off for 58 I would check it out.
If the only difference was the back case mount then you could swap that part with the old one.

 

[lugbolt]

The problem I have is really on Kubota. The kit I just purchased with the solenoid/relay and the replacement wire's no way should cost that much. The solenoid is the most expensive in the kit and there is not way it should be more than $100. Even OEM. I'm pretty disappointed in Kubota. Wish I knew the warranty ran out in 2023. This sidekick is a POS. The worst Kubota product I've seen yet.

I have been harping about the sidekicks for a long time, although maybe not enough. Kubota got into the SxS business in I think 2008, I remember the 900's quite well and still see a few come through my shop. When they redesigned them, and then added the XG850, the first one I looked at, it made me think of something that would come out of the Intimidator factory which ain't too far from here. Thrown together with miscellaneous oddball parts assembled kind of ridiculously, in comparison to the other "big" brands (Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, Polaris). I agree, Kubota is gonna have to step up their product if they want to compete in that market.

Mitsuba makes the starter. The solenoid is likely Bosch or Denso. Probably Denso knowing Kubota. Many manufacturers use the same companies for starters and such. Mitsuba is used by Honda and Yamaha for sure, and Polaris uses a few of them too. They don't fail that often, UNLESS someone has been cranking on them for minutes at a time, or possibly if a solenoid (or key switch...) sticks and applies juice to the starter continuously which IME is pretty rare. Kubota seems to have that issue.

Aftermarket companies are often rebuilt starters or they are new, using cheap components.

BTW I posted a year or so ago about my tractor's starter I got and it had an issue with it and they said they'd warranty it. To update that, they didn't warranty it. They said "it got water in it which is out of our control thus our warranty cannot apply". Well, they sent it back to me and I took it all apart. Yes it had moisture in it. But the reason for that is because there are no rubber seals installed between the motor and the brush head. There never was, and it was obvious. Water drips off of the hood side panel and onto the starter, over time corroded up the non-coated brush plate and armature. Just cheap components and cheap workmanship but for $140 I should not complain, especially considering that the original is NLA. So I just rebuilt it myself and used pieces and parts of a worn out OEM starter. So far so good but I'm about sick of this old tractor and I may end up selling it in the springtime.

 

[lugbolt]

wanted to add that a lot of Polaris (and a few kawasaki) units have a feature built into them. Cars as well. When you turn the key to start, it no longer has a direct connection between keyswitch and starter relay/solenoid-rather the keyswitch sends a signal to the ECU and ECU reads data from all the sensors and switches, and it then decides whether or not to allow the engine to start. In doing so, once it sees that everything is "ok", it cranks the engine and once the ECU sees X RPM (I think in the case of Polaris it wants to see 600 RPM), it assumes that the engine is running and cuts power to the solenoid/relay. You can see if your vehicle has this feature by making sure you're in neutral and all that, then turn the key to start and hold it for a split second--then release it. If it continues to crank via starter until it's running, it's ecu controlled. Almost all cars have it now (auto start/stop plays in as well....).

Kubota should ideally look at doing this on the sidekicks too. It will mean the ecu has to change as well as the wiring but it has the possibility of reducing wear on the starter motor thus reducing warranty claims costs. One other thing I'd like to see on the sidekicks is an electronic throttle valve instead of the cable driven throttle. That Robin engine is really responsive, and the combination of throttle pedal linkage ratio and having a fully mechanically activated throttle results in VERY jerky operation. ETV will solve that and make the machine MUCH more user-friendly. But Going backwards here, the Japanese are well-known for holding a particular product on the market relatively unchanged for FAR too long. Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Kubota. They all do it. Products need to change about every 5 years. The sidekicks have been out since 2018, people have been griping about certain things (throttle....) and here it is, 6 years later, or 7 model years, and they still haven't properly addressed the dangerous throttle. They had an update at one point but it really didn't do a lot. It desperately needs electronic throttle valve. For crying out loud, put a drive mode switch in it so that it can have a work mode, a standard mode, and a sport mode so that everyone can enjoy it however they please. It's a pretty good machine but it needs a few things to be competitive with the rest of the market, otherwise Kubota may as well not waste the resources trying to sell them, IMO. Move those resources into the CUT's or SCUTS and leave the SxS market to those companies who know it best.