WWII internment camps

[Poohbear]

A photo on another thread reminded me of a few of the stories my Dad would share . He was allready in the Army when the war started and his unit was sent just 2 days after Pearl Harbor from Texas to Oregon near Medford . They then at some point were reassigned as guards at the camps.
He said it was very sad doing that guard duty and when his unit got shipped to North Africa it was a happy event. I can't imagine being happy about going to combat but my Dad said most of these people were good loyal Americans. I would post some of his photos but my scanner is dead

 

[bird dogger]

My father in law was in the ND National Guard....the 164th Infantry....and was sent to Guadal Canal to serve alongside the Marines when they took the island. (that's a whole 'nuther story) But I remember him telling me stories of young German prisoners/internees that were allowed to volunteer for farm work here in the Red River Valley during the war. They couldn't believe how well they were treated and good they had it. So much so that at war's end there was no way they were going back to Germany! Their families (now US citizens) are still in the area.

 

[Nicfin36]

I've read a bit over the years about the Japanese camps and the German POWs kept here in the US. Putting the Japanese in the camps was a big mistake, and if I recall, pushed by one man who convinced Roosevelt it was a good idea. Poohbear, I would really like to see the pictures if you can get them scanned.

I have also read the same thing about the German POWs. It is my understanding that the POWs were fed very well here, even better than the US citizens, so that it could be shown to Germany how well the prisoners were being treated. I believe this had to do with the Geneva Convention. The idea was that our prisoners being kept by the Germans would be treated well. I had an article in one of my magazines telling about how some tried to escape. They were being kept out west somewhere in the desert. They did not get far. I think they even picked up one guy who had made it to someone's house and simply stayed there until the authorities picked him up.

 

[GeoHorn]

We had family friends and neighbors who were American born citizens of Japanese descent and were shipped off to camps... Husband was a doctor and wife a teacher. Dr. Suto and his wife were separated by the Army when she volunteered to drive Army vehicles between various bases and he volunteered to attend patients in the camps.
They lost their home and everything in it including 800 year old family heirloom-antiques when they were interned. White familes simply moved in and took over the house when they were interned and the things in their house simply disappeared.
Dr. Suto died in the late ‘90s after he developed a cure for a particular strain of pediatric cancer at MD Anderson in Houston. His own death was due to a cancer but he refused treatment for himself because he needed time to complete the documentation of his pediatric work and treatment for his own cancer would interfere with that. He was also a special enjoy from the U.S. Gov’t to return every few years to study health issues of the Hiroshima victims and their descendants for a gov’t research project.
Mrs. Suto spent her later years helping underprivileged college students with housing and meals in nearby U of H.

Our next door neighbor were former German citizens. Capt. Schultz always said “I vas not warrior...I was motorcycle messenger in war.” He was a common messenger for the Kriegsmarine and told me a funny story of how he was carrying some important papers between towns on a train and fell asleep... only to wake up and his pistol had been stolen while he was asleep. He had to keep his holster flap snapped shut so no one would know until he could procure another. LOL
Mrs. Schultz was very proud of the fact she’d won a Medal in the Berlin Olympics for diving. She couldn’t hide her pride in having received her medal from Hitler. She gave no indication of realizing how UN-impressed I was. She ended up as a diving instructor at the Dad’s Club/YMCA. Their son Sven ended up working at NASA alongside Werner vonBraun‘s protege’s.

They had no problem describing why they immigrated to the U.S. after the war: Germany was bankrupt and bombed-out and the U.S. had jobs for English/German speakers who had U.S. corporate sponsors. He became a port-authority employee for Holland-America maritime shipping and she had the athletic dept. of YMCA.
Oddly, the other neighbors who lived two doors down from them were the Giessel family: Dr and Drs Giessel (both husband and wife were doctors)... He had been a doctor in the Kaiser’s army in WW-1 and in WW2 he was a Captain (medical) in the U.S. Army.
Their son was also a doctor and was our back-yard/over-the-fence neighbor. He issued my FAA flight physicals, and his daughter and I had attended the same high school.
So the Schultz’s were surrounded by German Jewish doctors on one side and back yard, and by my family ...my Dad having flown in B24 LIberators out of England and bombed all over Germany.
But they were very happy to be here rather than in Cold War Germany.

 

[mattwithcats]

George Takel (of Star Trek fame) was interned at a camp as a child..

George Takei - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

James Doohan (Scotty) was on Juno beach on D-Day...

James Doohan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[bcp]

This incident may have had some influence on the internment decision.

Niihau incident - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"Repercussions
Historian Gordon Prange notes that it was "the rapidity with which the three resident Japanese went over to the pilot's cause" which troubled the Hawaiians. "The more pessimistic among them cited the Niʻihau incident as proof that no one could trust any Japanese, even if an American citizen, not to go over to Japan if it appeared expedient." Novelist William Hallstead argues that the Niʻihau incident had an influence on decisions leading to the Japanese American internment on the continental United States. According to Hallstead, the behavior of Shintani and the Haradas were included in an official Navy report dated January 26, 1942. Its author, Navy Lieutenant C. B. Baldwin, wrote, "The fact that the two Niʻihau Japanese who had previously shown no anti-American tendencies went to the aid of the pilot when Japanese domination of the island seemed possible, indicate [the] likelihood that Japanese residents previously believed loyal to the United States may aid Japan if further Japanese attacks appear successful."


Bruce

 

[NHSleddog]

It wasn't the saints and doctors that lead to the decision Geo, it was the ones killing Americans that lead to the decision. Many of them were killers, not pacifist saintly doctors. If they were all saintly, none of it would have happened.

 

[ctfjr]

It wasn't the saints and doctors that lead to the decision Geo, it was the ones killing Americans that lead to the decision. Many of them were killers, not pacifist saintly doctors. If they were all saintly, none of it would have happened.

That's an interesting post NH. If the following, quoted from The Atlantic, is true why weren't German Americans interned? I know of no similar actions by Japanese Americans. As far as I know no Americans of Japanese descent attacked Pearl Harbor.

"In the years before the outbreak of World War II, people of German ancestry living abroad were encouraged to form citizens groups to both extol “German virtues,” around the world, and to lobby for causes helpful to Nazi Party goals. In the United States, the Amerikadeutscher Volksbund, or German American Bund, was formed in 1936 as “an organization of patriotic Americans of German stock,” operating about 20 youth and training camps, and eventually growing to a membership in the tens of thousands among 70 regional divisions across the country. On February 20, 1939, the Bund held an “Americanization” rally in New York’s Madison Square Garden, denouncing Jewish conspiracies, President Roosevelt, and others. The rally, attended by 20,000 supporters and members, was protested by huge crowds of anti-Nazis, who were held back by 1,500 NYC police officers."

 

[NHSleddog]

That's an interesting post NH. If the following, quoted from The Atlantic, is true why weren't German Americans interned?.......

I don't know, I wasn't around then. IIRC we didn't lock up any Italians or Russians either.

 

[Poohbear]

That's an interesting post NH. If the following, quoted from The Atlantic, is true why weren't German Americans interned? I know of no similar actions by Japanese Americans. As far as I know no Americans of Japanese descent attacked Pearl Harbor.

"In the years before the outbreak of World War II, people of German ancestry living abroad were encouraged to form citizens groups to both extol “German virtues,” around the world, and to lobby for causes helpful to Nazi Party goals. In the United States, the Amerikadeutscher Volksbund, or German American Bund, was formed in 1936 as “an organization of patriotic Americans of German stock,” operating about 20 youth and training camps, and eventually growing to a membership in the tens of thousands among 70 regional divisions across the country. On February 20, 1939, the Bund held an “Americanization” rally in New York’s Madison Square Garden, denouncing Jewish conspiracies, President Roosevelt, and others. The rally, attended by 20,000 supporters and members, was protested by huge crowds of anti-Nazis, who were held back by 1,500 NYC police officers."

Charles Lindbergh was known to work with these Bund groups. One of the reasons Rosevelt kept him " officially " out of the Army Air Corps. However, he managed to go as an observer to the Pacific and actually flew missions in P38's. He figured out how to get nearly twice the fuel range of P38's which let them catch Yamamoto & shoot his butt down at a place thought out of reach of American planes.

 

[GeoHorn]

Charles Lindbergh was known to work with these Bund groups. One of the reasons Rosevelt kept him " officially " out of the Army Air Corps. However, he managed to go as an observer to the Pacific and actually flew missions in P38's. He figured out how to get nearly twice the fuel range of P38's which let them catch Yamamoto & shoot his butt down at a place thought out of reach of American planes.

I have a picture somewhere of Lindbergh receiving a sword and a medal from Goering, and Lindbergh giving the Nazi salute at a Bund gathering. He and Henry Ford were both pro-Nazi at the early part of the war but their personal fortunes began to eat at their conscience so they stopped that behavior. He was allowed to go the Pacific where he would be unlikely to be in contact with Germans and Ford got richer building trucks, jeeps, and airplanes.

I don't know, I wasn't around then. IIRC we didn't lock up any Italians or Russians either.

.
What you don’t know could fill a library. The Russians were our allies.

 

[xrocketengineer]

That's an interesting post NH. If the following, quoted from The Atlantic, is true why weren't German Americans interned? I know of no similar actions by Japanese Americans. As far as I know no Americans of Japanese descent attacked Pearl Harbor.

"In the years before the outbreak of World War II, people of German ancestry living abroad were encouraged to form citizens groups to both extol “German virtues,” around the world, and to lobby for causes helpful to Nazi Party goals. In the United States, the Amerikadeutscher Volksbund, or German American Bund, was formed in 1936 as “an organization of patriotic Americans of German stock,” operating about 20 youth and training camps, and eventually growing to a membership in the tens of thousands among 70 regional divisions across the country. On February 20, 1939, the Bund held an “Americanization” rally in New York’s Madison Square Garden, denouncing Jewish conspiracies, President Roosevelt, and others. The rally, attended by 20,000 supporters and members, was protested by huge crowds of anti-Nazis, who were held back by 1,500 NYC police officers."

You are right. The first time I watched this, it scared the hell out me:

 

[Nicfin36]

Many people looked up to the Nazis, at least early on, because they were against communism.

 

[NHSleddog]

What you don’t know could fill a library. The Russians were our allies.

I would say that is true because I am still learning something new everyday.

So are you saying we did lock them up, or was my statement wrong? You are one confusing individual.

 

[random]

I would say that is true because I am still learning something new everyday.

So are you saying we did lock them up, or was my statement wrong? You are one confusing individual.

I think his point was that we would have had no reason to lock up Russians, as they were not the enemy.

 

[Old_Paint]

There was also a large camp at Aliceville, Alabama. Like many others, the German POWs were looked after very well, and were also allowed work furloughs with the local farmers. After the war ended, if memory serves, less than 5% of the German POWs interred at Aliceville returned to Germany. Most had already applied for Visas and Green Cards before the war was done. A large percentage of the Aliceville population has German surnames. Very little is left of the camp now, other than a few historic markers. The German POWs actually built most of the residence barracks. Security was pretty light, because most of them would rather be in South Alabama in the winter instead of on the Eastern Front near Siberia.

 

[torch]

You are right. The first time I watched this, it scared the hell out me:

Proof that anyone can wrap themselves in a flag.

 

[NCL4701]

Proof that anyone can wrap themselves in a flag.

Thank you. I had almost forgotten that ever happened. Intentionally or unintentionally it seems we forget the parts of our history we would prefer to have never happened. The unvarnished perspective of those who lived through the times mostly dies with them and we are left with an, at least partially, sanitized version of events presented by historians who must cater to the sensibilities of their current audience.

So for my 24 year old son who wonders if it has ever been this bad; has the country ever been this divided (other than the Civil War), and to some degree for me as someone younger than many on this forum, looking at some of of history that may not be pleasant to look at lends some real and credible perspective to some of what goes on now.

So, thank you.

It is, in my opinion, unfortunate, frustrating, and sometimes tragic that balance, whether in physics or politics, is an unnatural state often difficult to maintain in the face of forces pushing to topple in favor of an extreme.

 

[ctfjr]

The sixties really weren't that long ago. I talk to my kids about an unpopular war, civil rights, demonstrations and a crooked president.

Their response? Nothing much has changed.

 

[D2Cat]

What do you mean, "a crooked president"? You word it as if there has only been one in 60 years!!