Hi all, I have a new L 3400 DT tractor that I recently purchased, to replace a really good, but really tired Ford 600. When talking to the sales person I asked about using a fuel anti-gel supplement like I do in my old Dodge with a Cummins 5.9. He said that you don't need a fuel supplement with off road fuel, and I must say that while I have not used any off road diesel before, I would be surprised that it is not needed in midwest winters. I would like to know what the group has experienced with this issue. My first post, and I hope it is in the correct forum. Thanks.
Winter fuel question
- Thread starter nkcblue
- Start date
Welcome nk ...well that's not necessarily so and here's why. With the change of the US EPA requiring sulfur to drop to 15 ppm in July of 07 the red dyed off road diesel is exactly the same as the on road green dyed #2 Diesel. In MO you will need to add some type of CE additive and follow the normal temperature droop below zero if you leave your L series outside with anti-gel additive just like over the road #2 diesel.....
Green dye = Paid road tax, Red dye = no road tax that the only difference really....
Green dye = Paid road tax, Red dye = no road tax that the only difference really....
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I've been running Stanadyne Lubricity in my 02 Cummins year round basically for lubrication. They claim it helps out and prevents geling , never seemed to have an issue but i'm pretty careful where I buy my fuel, especially in the winter. Only thing I was told by my Kubota dealer was maybe every second or third tank fill up, add a 1/4 cup a dextron 2 tranny fluid for lubrication due to the newer fuel not having what it used to
, never seemed to have an issue but i'm pretty careful where I buy my fuel, especially in the winter. Only thing I was told by my Kubota dealer was maybe every second or third tank fill up, add a 1/4 cup a dextron 2 tranny fluid for lubrication due to the newer fuel not having what it used toThanks Guys, I kinda thought it was bunk what the salesman told me. I have used Powerserve in the Dodge for years. I think this is a good group, I like reading about all those little diesels rattling around out there.
I've been in service all my life and I've always said a good Salesman can sell a 'cold dog turd' to the right sucker and P. T Barnum said, "there's a Sucker born every minute". Go figure...
Listen to ob1 talked to the diesel distributor today ob1 is dead on as always. I have been thinking about putting either 1 tablespoon of diesel oil in the diesel fuel for the lubrication. Today the distributor said the same thing as brokersdad about adding the dextron for lubrication on the older kubotas. What do others recommend on the dextron. nkcblue thanks for bringing this subject up.handyman
. nkcblue thanks for bringing this subject up.handymanfifteen years ago I used dextron II in all my GM diesels. That was the same info back then, add it because the new blends have been stripped. what I thought was funny was it was my fuel man that told me of the changes back then.
tim
tim
Guys listen... I want to add one more thought at this point in this post
DO NOT ADD TRANSMISSION FLUID TO # 2 utra low sulfur DIESEL using the direct injection common rail CP3 Pumps. They will seize up from the additives found in Dextron lll and greater blends. Now your thinking here we go again ole OB1 but, I deal with hundreds of rental customers who use up to 30% Bio-Diesel Blends for (tax breaks in the US) against all OEM (Ford, International, Isuzu, CAT, Deere, MACK, Parcar all 5% Max.) recommendations because the lack of sulfur and the lubricity loss from refining sulfur out of the petroleum cracking process, has removed all the natural lubricating properties of straight #2 15 ppm diesel. The animal fats in Bio, act like alcohol in a diesel and the result is overheating to the cylinder heads,walls, valves and liner pitting when DCA is destroyed from high temperature perculation which is prominated by the high pressure auto ignition experienced in Common rail high pressure injection systems. The old indirect injection diesels will just about burn any blend of oils with little problem but these new HPCR systems coming to a tractor near you soon ( 2010 and beyond in the US ) will absolutely self-destruct using TRANSMISSION FLUID as a lubricity additive. My recommendation is for winterized fuels use additives that contain Naphthalene with a Stoddard solvent, tolerable to TRI-Tetra-Tri-methylbenzene compounds found in commerical products like Power Service and Stanadyne. There are several producers out there, I just buy these brands for my Fleet of Diesels.
DO NOT ADD TRANSMISSION FLUID TO # 2 utra low sulfur DIESEL
using the direct injection common rail CP3 Pumps. They will seize up from the additives found in Dextron lll and greater blends. Now your thinking here we go again ole OB1 but, I deal with hundreds of rental customers who use up to 30% Bio-Diesel Blends for (tax breaks in the US) against all OEM (Ford, International, Isuzu, CAT, Deere, MACK, Parcar all 5% Max.) recommendations because the lack of sulfur and the lubricity loss from refining sulfur out of the petroleum cracking process, has removed all the natural lubricating properties of straight #2 15 ppm diesel. The animal fats in Bio, act like alcohol in a diesel and the result is overheating to the cylinder heads,walls, valves and liner pitting when DCA is destroyed from high temperature perculation which is prominated by the high pressure auto ignition experienced in Common rail high pressure injection systems. The old indirect injection diesels will just about burn any blend of oils with little problem but these new HPCR systems coming to a tractor near you soon ( 2010 and beyond in the US ) will absolutely self-destruct using TRANSMISSION FLUID as a lubricity additive. My recommendation is for winterized fuels use additives that contain Naphthalene with a Stoddard solvent, tolerable to TRI-Tetra-Tri-methylbenzene compounds found in commerical products like Power Service and Stanadyne. There are several producers out there, I just buy these brands for my Fleet of Diesels. Ob1 was hoping you or vic would jump in. Thanks for your input I do not want to do anything to hurt the little B7100. Glad this thread was started. I for one will follow your recommendations. My kubota is old but its my first and will listen to advice from people with the knowledge and experience the members have with these diesels .And thanks to nkcblue for thread Thanks again handyman
. Thanks for your input I do not want to do anything to hurt the little B7100. Glad this thread was started. I for one will follow your recommendations. My kubota is old but its my first and will listen to advice from people with the knowledge and experience the members have with these diesels .And thanks to nkcblue for thread Thanks again handymanEd Hill
New member
Equipment
B3000 with Meteor drag snowblower and mid-mount mower; M7040 with accessories
I have been told in Northern Vermont to add between 25-50% kerosene to diesel in winter. As I am about up against winter now, I would be interested to know if this is a good idea or bad. Supposedly this will prevent gelling of fuel.
Ed Hill
Ed Hill
I will watch for further posts here myself. I ALSO live in Northern Vermont. In my diesel Cummins/Dodge I have always used blended fuel (part kerosene in the deep cold of winter (-40 below at times) and I always buy my fuel from a reputable highway supplier - less potential to accumulate water as diesel is naturally hydrosyphillic and attracts water naturally. Water destroys injectors and injector pumps as it is introduced as steam. So, until I hear differently, I will go with blended (my dealer recommends this too) and I will use an anti gel in small proportions on cold" days plus preheat and prewarmup before going under load - prevention is much cheaper than repair. Also, I will continue with 10W-30 oil in winter as my northern Vt dealers all recommend and NOT switch to 15W multi grade as recommended in other posts on this forum. Just my thoughts .
forgot to mention - I have an L2350DT in which I intend to use the fuel and the oil mentioned in the post above.
You are right GRNMNTEER,
Use a good engine oil that meets the specifications that the engine manufacturer provided, the cold flow characteristics of a 10W or a 5w multigrade will far outweigh the benefit of a heavier oil at operating temperature in a cold climate. I do believe there is significant protection to be found using reputable synthetic oil.( I use Mobil synthetic myself in all my engines but it is not necessarily the best) Kubota do not recommend any fuel additives and I don't either unless you are correcting for something like maybe you have fuel in there from the summer and now it is winter. You can safely use some kerosene in diesel fuel. that is what the fuel companies do to make winter diesel. If you think you have any water in your fuel EMPTY IT!! do not try to mix some potion to flush the water out! If you think wasting a tank of fuel is expensive try rebuilding your injection pump You can even use some gasoline into diesel to make it flow better in cold weather, Mercedes Benz recommended up to 30% Back in 1982 when my 300D was new. I don't think I would do it with todays diesel fuel though. I have run diesel trucks and cars and tractors for almost 40 years and have never used a fuel additive.They may have their place, but for the most of us the engines are designed for the available fuel and vic vesa.
Ed
Use a good engine oil that meets the specifications that the engine manufacturer provided, the cold flow characteristics of a 10W or a 5w multigrade will far outweigh the benefit of a heavier oil at operating temperature in a cold climate. I do believe there is significant protection to be found using reputable synthetic oil.( I use Mobil synthetic myself in all my engines but it is not necessarily the best) Kubota do not recommend any fuel additives and I don't either unless you are correcting for something like maybe you have fuel in there from the summer and now it is winter. You can safely use some kerosene in diesel fuel. that is what the fuel companies do to make winter diesel. If you think you have any water in your fuel EMPTY IT!! do not try to mix some potion to flush the water out! If you think wasting a tank of fuel is expensive try rebuilding your injection pump
You can even use some gasoline into diesel to make it flow better in cold weather, Mercedes Benz recommended up to 30% Back in 1982 when my 300D was new. I don't think I would do it with todays diesel fuel though. I have run diesel trucks and cars and tractors for almost 40 years and have never used a fuel additive.They may have their place, but for the most of us the engines are designed for the available fuel and vic vesa. Ed
Interesting read on the lubricity of additves for anyone who wants to read it
http://mopar.mopar1973man.com/pdf/hfrr-testing-dieselplace.pdf
http://mopar.mopar1973man.com/pdf/hfrr-testing-dieselplace.pdf
Wow, a lot of stuff to think about. Thanks ob1 for your advice, I will go with the Power Service as I want the new little rattler to last a long long time.