Windows 10 update

[bearbait]

I don't hate mac or apple, I just say its not for me personally. I think apple builds good products, I just dont care personally for their business model. I do acknowledge however that for some folks mac is a better fit - especially if they are big into the apple ecosystem already. My brother is a big mac guy. I have co workers who love the mac. I've built my own computer since I was 13 though, and am big into overclocking and tweaking. nearly every component of my pc is overclocked. The PC eco system is just so much more open ended, with a lot more options for the end-user, not to mention that if you are into gaming, as I am, there really is no substitute for the PC. I have over $5,000 in my gaming desktop. Nothing Apple makes will touch my pc in performance, especially in gaming performance. And to those who may know pc hardware, yes I am running an RTX 3090

Great discussion Tornado, thanks for taking the time. It's funny years back when I had a pc my BIL used to build them and I always wanted to build my own but never got the chance. I always enjoy learning something new.

 

[Tornado]

Great discussion Tornado, thanks for taking the time. It's funny years back when I had a pc my BIL used to build them and I always wanted to build my own but never got the chance. I always enjoy learning something new.

Well, as a kid I was admittedly a nerd. A severe introvert, I never could wait to get out of school so i could go work on MY projects I had going at home. 11 and 12 years old I was heavily into radio equipment, scanners, short wave radio, cb radio (for Christmas at 11 my parents got me a cb base station with external antenna that my dad and I installed.) I used that radio to talk skip on cb all over the united states and kept a log book of all the places I was able to reach. At 12 years old I had already started playing with soldering, and was jimmy rigging antennas to my bicycle and stuff for my walkie talkies. I then found a guide on how to modify my scanner at the time so that it would pick up the 700-800mhz analog radio band that was used for cell phone comms at the time. That was a trip. By 13 we got our first computer in the house; a Pentium 166 running windows 95. I knew nothing about pc's at that time but quickly began to tinker with it and eventually took it apart. I later overclocked it using the front side bus of the motherboard from 166mhz to 187mhz. The rest was history after that. I have built every pc Ive owned since then. I remember in highschool around 15 years old or so, trying to break the 1ghz cpu speed threshold before 1ghz cpu's were actually a thing. I finally did it with an AMD Athlon 700mhz chip, pushing it to nearly 1100mhz. Lot of fond memories. Im so glad my parents let me be me and didnt push me to be someone else in those years, because I do remember spending most of my childhood locked in my bedroom with no social life, but my wheels never stopped turning in my head. I was drinking vast amounts of knowledge everyday and all of it was self taught. That development has helped me tremendously as an adult now pushing 40 - I learned that a person can teach themselves literally anything if they want to learn it, and that perspective on life has taken me to good places.

 

[NHSleddog]

As a side note, many people don't know that the internet that you are looking at is run on servers. Microsoft has 48% of that online market, the next closest is RedHat (linux) and all the rest combined make up barely 18%.

If it were up to Apple, there would be no internet. That was another big reason for my PC decision, when I was younger I was amazed with what made the internet work (I started on the ARPANET) and Apple just doesn't make servers.

So PooHoo Windows all you want. Next time you are logging into something with your mac, remember Windows makes about 1/2 of it happen 24/7/365 (updates included).

 

[NHSleddog]

Well, as a kid I was admittedly a nerd. A severe introvert, I never could wait to get out of school so i could go work on MY projects I had going at home. 11 and 12 years old I was heavily into radio equipment, scanners, short wave radio, cb radio (for Christmas at 11 my parents got me a cb base station with external antenna that my dad and I installed.) I used that radio to talk skip on cb all over the united states and kept a log book of all the places I was able to reach. At 12 years old I had already started playing with soldering, and was jimmy rigging antennas to my bicycle and stuff for my walkie talkies. I then found a guide on how to modify my scanner at the time so that it would pick up the 700-800mhz analog radio band that was used for cell phone comms at the time. That was a trip. By 13 we got our first computer in the house; a Pentium 166 running windows 95. I knew nothing about pc's at that time but quickly began to tinker with it and eventually took it apart. I later overclocked it using the front side bus of the motherboard from 166mhz to 187mhz. The rest was history after that. I have built every pc Ive owned since then. I remember in highschool around 15 years old or so, trying to break the 1ghz cpu speed threshold before 1ghz cpu's were actually a thing. I finally did it with an AMD Athlon 700mhz chip, pushing it to nearly 1100mhz. Lot of fond memories. Im so glad my parents let me be me and didnt push me to be someone else in those years, because I do remember spending most of my childhood locked in my bedroom with no social life, but my wheels never stopped turning in my head. I was drinking vast amounts of knowledge everyday and all of it was self taught. That development has helped me tremendously as an adult now pushing 40 - I learned that a person can teach themselves literally anything if they want to learn it, and that perspective on life has taken me to good places.

Great story.

I still build every machine. My 3 boys have all built multiple machines. My youngest just put together a mid-level gaming machine (about 3200 in parts).

When we started laying it out I told him, "congratulations son, you have now ventured beyond the HCL, I'm proud of you". Something all the kids with macs will never know. A shame really.

 

[Tornado]

As a side note, many people don't know that the internet that you are looking at is run on servers. Microsoft has 48% of that online market, the next closest is RedHat (linux) and all the rest combined make up barely 18%.

If it were up to Apple, there would be no internet. That was another big reason for my PC decision, when I was younger I was amazed with what made the internet work (I started on the ARPANET) and Apple just doesn't make servers.

So PooHoo Windows all you want. Next time you are logging into something with your mac, remember Windows makes about 1/2 of it happen 24/7/365 (updates included).

You seem to really hate apple lol. A lot of systems access the internet that have no infrastructure in the actual internet. I don't think that really matters. Either you like apple's products or you don't. You clearly don't. Apple do make good products. They have pioneered a lot in technology, most certainly in mobile technology. That is really where they focus. They aren't focused on server infrastructure. Just no reason for them to focus on that sector. They are a consumer focused brand and they develop solid consumer focused products. Saying all that, I don't own a single one of their products. Not because I hate them, but because in todays world we have lots of options, and I simply prefer the other options. Depending on your profession or personal lifestyle though apple can make a lot of sense for many people. Some people also just prefer the mac os, and that's entirely understandable. This doesn't have to turn into a Ford vs Chevy argument where we are just super close minded and have to force ourselves into a black or white mindset.

 

[random]

As a side note, many people don't know that the internet that you are looking at is run on servers. Microsoft has 48% of that online market, the next closest is RedHat (linux) and all the rest combined make up barely 18%.

Those numbers don't match my experience - almost every server I've used has been linux based, with CentOS and RHEL being the dominant. I have encountered windows rarely in that capacity.

That said, I think a lot depends on what you mean by "servers". Looking up the stats, I see two VERY different set of numbers reported:

72% Windows, 13% linux: https://www.statista.com/statistics/915085/global-server-share-by-os/

73% unix/linux, 26% windows: https://w3techs.com/technologies/overview/operating_system

I'm assuming that the first set of numbers is including things like company internal servers and such, while the second set looks to be just web servers.

As for OS - my personal computer is Windows, just works better for what I use it for. But for work (programming) I find mac suits my process better. It's a tool, and just like any other tool I pick the one that's best suited for the task.

 

[random]

I still build every machine. My 3 boys have all built multiple machines. My youngest just put together a mid-level gaming machine (about 3200 in parts).

A few years ago, my son had asked for a better keyboard & mouse, for gaming. So I sourced and bought all the parts for a decent gaming computer for Christmas. Each part was wrapped individually, and under the tree a couple weeks in advance. He kept saying "I'm getting so many presents!" and I kept telling him "No, you're only getting one". He also kept saying "I really want to know what's in that big box" (the case) and I told him "It's a box".

They were numbered to be opened in order. Mouse, keyboard, RAM, etc. He finally realized what the REAL present was when he opened the motherboard.

 

[johnjk]

RCW, Microsoft updates vary in size depending on what is involved, what you have installed on your PC and how much drive space you have free, it may take a while to update. My work laptop (3+yrs old) takes around an hour to update and reboot and we only pick the critical updates to install on these machines. Let it be and come back in 30 min or so to see.

I built my last Windows PC back in 2005 so it is VERY old and still runs Windows 10. I rarely use it so every time I power up it wants to do a Windows update and a Anti Virus definition update. If I know I'm gonna need it, I turn it on the night before and let it do its thing so when I'm ready to go, it is as well. The last time I watched it update back in July (needed it to run a Garmin update) It took almost 2.5hrs to update. A SSD will help as will more memory but you will need to jump through a few hoops to get that SSD to work and copy your data over. Do your homework and see if it will support the newer SSD's before you go buy one and attempt an upgrade

I do most of my personal computer stuff now on an iMac from 2013 that still gets all the iOS updates from Apple and still runs great. 7+yrs old and still supported by Apple. I have that one set to download and upgrade overnight so we are good to go during the day. I used to be anti Apple but the ease of use and supporting of the platform for family is a lot easier than Windows. My FIL was a habitual Yes clicker and would get infected multiple times a week. I loaded Ubuntu on his PC which cleared up the issue and when it was time to get a new machine, we got him the iMac. Email, Web Browsing, Favorites, all easily moved over and he loved it. Visits were no longer spent reimaging a PC but being able to visit. When he passed, the Mac came to our house.

The only negative I see on the Mac is that you can't throw in an additional hard drive or increase memory, at least not on the iMac. I also need an external USB DVD drive to load the tax software on. Yes I could download it off the web, but when my download speeds are less than 1Mb, the external drive makes more sense. On the plus side, it takes up less space, no noise, great screen and you can back up your iPhone to the Mac instead of the iCloud. The wife loves it because her favorites sync between her phone and tablet right to the Mac, same with her email.

There is a little learning curve to figure out where things are, but you can load Chrome and Gmail apps easily and be online quickly. If you are going to replace the PC, definitely give it a look.

 

[Tornado]

A few years ago, my son had asked for a better keyboard & mouse, for gaming. So I sourced and bought all the parts for a decent gaming computer for Christmas. Each part was wrapped individually, and under the tree a couple weeks in advance. He kept saying "I'm getting so many presents!" and I kept telling him "No, you're only getting one". He also kept saying "I really want to know what's in that big box" (the case) and I told him "It's a box".

They were numbered to be opened in order. Mouse, keyboard, RAM, etc. He finally realized what the REAL present was when he opened the motherboard.

Very cool idea, my parents wouldn't have known what to buy me in my case lol. They knew nothing about computers when I was building mine. I had to give them a list of what to buy if they were to buy computer parts.

Building computers now is so much more interesting than it was when I started, but I guess that's just the natural progression of any burgeoning new market sector. Overclocking was a lot harder back then, often involved more risks to the parts, and you didn't have no where near the accessories, cooling solutions, and myriad of add on components you do now. CPU's now come with unlocked multipliers right out of the box which makes overclocking almost Childs play. Water cooling now is so much safer and easier, with countless AIO water-cooling solutions on the market. Then you have the whole RGB craze, custom water loop options, the whole market of computer building is just huge now. Like my computer case now, its solid glass and looks sexy. Every piece of hardware in the build is customizable. THIS is why I love and prefer PC over mac. I love all these options open to me. Others however do not care about building or water-cooling, and prefer something different, and thats ok.

 

[Lil Foot]

When first got into R&D we used PCs, with HPs for running equipment & taking data.
Then our group got transferred to a Minneapolis based division that only used Macs.
I became the Mac support tech for the group, along my other duties, and I basically had only (3) things to do:

1) Handhold PC guys who could not run Macs. ("You mean to copy that file to that hard drive I only have to drag it over there?!! IT CAN"T BE THAT EASY!!!")

2) Figure out who unplugged their printer from the Tolkien ring, and plug it back in.

3) Deal with one manager who called about every two weeks complaining that his "stupid Mac" was running too slowly. Turns out he could not grasp the difference between closing a window and quitting a program. Between work related programs and games, he usually had around 250 programs open at the same time. I would explain it to him, (kinda like talking to an avocado) quit all his programs, and he'd try it out. He would always be amazed at the "magic" I had performed. ( "The machine is now faster than it was when it was new!!!")

Then our group got transferred to another division that only used PCs again, and everyone (including me) needed help. After getting horrible service from our IT dept, our group finally hired our own IT tech, and she was a genius, and kept all our machines running & up to date.

 

[William1]

My current box is seven years old, Corsair Neutron SSD RAID 0 for C, Veliciraptors for D and E, water cooled, 32Gb ram. Boots in 12~13 seconds. Updates never take more than two minutes to install. Unfortunately, having 6Mb DSL means it can take an hour for a update to D/L....
I've worked Apples and PC's. There are 100X more PC's in the market place, so it is easier and more flexible to run a PC. Cheaper too. Apples are slick and well finished and play very well with other Apple devices. But when they get old, they are garbage, there is minimum upgrade ability.

 

[NHSleddog]

Those numbers don't match my experience - almost every server I've used has been linux based, with CentOS and RHEL being the dominant. I have encountered windows rarely in that capacity.

That said, I think a lot depends on what you mean by "servers". Looking up the stats, I see two VERY different set of numbers reported:

72% Windows, 13% linux: https://www.statista.com/statistics/915085/global-server-share-by-os/

73% unix/linux, 26% windows: https://w3techs.com/technologies/overview/operating_system

I'm assuming that the first set of numbers is including things like company internal servers and such, while the second set looks to be just web servers.

As for OS - my personal computer is Windows, just works better for what I use it for. But for work (programming) I find mac suits my process better. It's a tool, and just like any other tool I pick the one that's best suited for the task.

From a recent article in T4,
*********************************************
"The chart above shows the Server OS market share of global shipments for enterprise Server Operating Systems in 2018. Microsoft Server was the market leader with a 48% share of the total server Operating System shipments while 34% of the shipments were for Red Hat's Linux based Server OS. Red Hat is far and away the leader within the Linux Server OS market. While Red Hat and Microsoft are the most popular operating systems in the server OS market, the "Other" section contains additional well known products and brands."
**********************************************
My numbers are not off by much. I have been in dozens of data centers (literally) full of MS servers. A single install in Sommerville MA alone of over 100,000 servers (275 racks) In my experience it would have it 80/20 the other way. So it doesn't really go by me and you.

 

[NHSleddog]

You seem to really hate apple lol. A lot of systems access the internet that have no infrastructure in the actual internet. I don't think that really matters. Either you like apple's products or you don't. You clearly don't. Apple do make good products. They have pioneered a lot in technology, most certainly in mobile technology. That is really where they focus. They aren't focused on server infrastructure. Just no reason for them to focus on that sector. They are a consumer focused brand and they develop solid consumer focused products. Saying all that, I don't own a single one of their products. Not because I hate them, but because in todays world we have lots of options, and I simply prefer the other options. Depending on your profession or personal lifestyle though apple can make a lot of sense for many people. Some people also just prefer the mac os, and that's entirely understandable. This doesn't have to turn into a Ford vs Chevy argument where we are just super close minded and have to force ourselves into a black or white mindset.

You really missed my point. I am still too young to hate anything. I don't hate apple, I don't hate apple followers, I sure don't think I ever said that.

I don't like that they abandon platforms (burned by it). I dislike the closed nature of their hardware. I dislike the closed nature of their ecosystem. But none of that was my point.

 

[Magicman]

I am not arguing either way and quite frankly am not informed enough to argue anyway. After ~5 years, 3 PC Laptops, and over $1500 spent, I had just grown weary of stuff not working. Of course this MacAir might blow it's guts in a year, but at least it is working now. I will admit that I kept the return box for a month threatening to send it back, but I was growing more familiar with it all of the time. There are still some keyboard functions that I probably am not taking advantage of. I despise the photo handling but there are some features there that I am still unfamiliar with.

 

[bearbait]

When first got into R&D we used PCs, with HPs for running equipment & taking data.
Then our group got transferred to a Minneapolis based division that only used Macs.
I became the Mac support tech for the group, along my other duties, and I basically had only (3) things to do:

1) Handhold PC guys who could not run Macs. ("You mean to copy that file to that hard drive I only have to drag it over there?!! IT CAN"T BE THAT EASY!!!")

2) Figure out who unplugged their printer from the Tolkien ring, and plug it back in.

3) Deal with one manager who called about every two weeks complaining that his "stupid Mac" was running too slowly. Turns out he could not grasp the difference between closing a window and quitting a program. Between work related programs and games, he usually had around 250 programs open at the same time. I would explain it to him, (kinda like talking to an avocado) quit all his programs, and he'd try it out. He would always be amazed at the "magic" I had performed. ( "The machine is now faster than it was when it was new!!!")

Then our group got transferred to another division that only used PCs again, and everyone (including me) needed help. After getting horrible service from our IT dept, our group finally hired our own IT tech, and she was a genius, and kept all our machines running & up to date.

Now that's funny!! Damn Bill, is there nothing you haven't done??

 

[bearbait]

It's like no shoe fits every foot, you have to go with what feels comfortable for you if that makes any sense.

 

[Tornado]

When first got into R&D we used PCs, with HPs for running equipment & taking data.
Then our group got transferred to a Minneapolis based division that only used Macs.
I became the Mac support tech for the group, along my other duties, and I basically had only (3) things to do:

1) Handhold PC guys who could not run Macs. ("You mean to copy that file to that hard drive I only have to drag it over there?!! IT CAN"T BE THAT EASY!!!")

2) Figure out who unplugged their printer from the Tolkien ring, and plug it back in.

3) Deal with one manager who called about every two weeks complaining that his "stupid Mac" was running too slowly. Turns out he could not grasp the difference between closing a window and quitting a program. Between work related programs and games, he usually had around 250 programs open at the same time. I would explain it to him, (kinda like talking to an avocado) quit all his programs, and he'd try it out. He would always be amazed at the "magic" I had performed. ( "The machine is now faster than it was when it was new!!!")

Then our group got transferred to another division that only used PCs again, and everyone (including me) needed help. After getting horrible service from our IT dept, our group finally hired our own IT tech, and she was a genius, and kept all our machines running & up to date.

You describe one of the annoyances of IT work. Id say 80% of problems that come up, if not more than 80%, are caused by user error, or just general ignorance of the end user. There are people who work years and years on PC's doing their job, but never learn the basics of computers. I am always baffled by that. If I work any job around a piece of equipment, I will master it, because its just the natural course of my progression in my work to me. I make it a point to understand the system. How people work 20 years and still cant do basic computer stuff, despite sitting on it everyday really is baffling to me. Its like people are intimidated by something and just don't even try. I'm so glad that was never my approach. Also just fyi - You can copy files by dragging and dropping in a PC environment as well so "pc guys" should know that already.

 

[bearbait]

You describe one of the annoyances of IT work. Id say 80% of problems that come up, if not more than 80%, are caused by user error, or just general ignorance of the end user. There are people who work years and years on PC's doing their job, but never learn the basics of computers. I am always baffled by that. If I work any job around a piece of equipment, I will master it, because its just the natural course of my progression in my work to me. I make it a point to understand the system. How people work 20 years and still cant do basic computer stuff, despite sitting on it everyday really is baffling to me. Its like people are intimidated by something and just don't even try. I'm so glad that was never my approach. Also just fyi - You can copy files by dragging and dropping in a PC environment as well so "pc guys" should know that already.

Once again, they walk among us.

 

[Lil Foot]

Also just fyi - You can copy files by dragging and dropping in a PC environment as well so "pc guys" should know that already.

These days yes, back then, no.

 

[sheepfarmer]

You describe one of the annoyances of IT work. Id say 80% of problems that come up, if not more than 80%, are caused by user error, or just general ignorance of the end user. There are people who work years and years on PC's doing their job, but never learn the basics of computers. I am always baffled by that. If I work any job around a piece of equipment, I will master it, because its just the natural course of my progression in my work to me. I make it a point to understand the system. How people work 20 years and still cant do basic computer stuff, despite sitting on it everyday really is baffling to me. Its like people are intimidated by something and just don't even try. I'm so glad that was never my approach. Also just fyi - You can copy files by dragging and dropping in a PC environment ajus well so "pc guys" should know that already.

Well sometimes it's self inflicted by the IT department. In the really olden days at my former university, faculty that wanted to use a computer bought it themselves, bought the software, loaded it, and set it up. You then had at least a fuzzy idea how it was supposed to work. Courses were offered on the language needed to send files over the internet. Then they decided that the departments were going to buy computers and the IT department would pre arrange everything especially when computers became involved in teaching and not just word processing. They made doing much with the setup not just unnecessary but impossible by not giving "Administrator " privileges to the user. So we couldn't screw things up. For me at least this has resulted in ignorance of many of the technological advances in hardware. All the computers in a department were "imaged" to make it easy for the IT guys to work on them. I always had too much to do beyond mastering the skills to create decent online presentations to deal with how stuff was working. This now leaves me way behind the 8 ball as a retiree and I need to know.