Why the BX23S Is Not So Compact

[RCW]

Chimpy -

It was several years ago since I shopped last for a B. I think the B-01's were new. I don't recall weights, ratings, etc.

Most of my "heavy" work is between snow and mowing. For 8-10 weeks of the year (early spring and late-fall), I can deal with the BX just fine.

Again, there are very few things I can't do with this tractor. Just takes more time. But it's those it can't do that make me wish I had some more tractor.

I think some that complain about a B might be better with an L2501.....

 

[Tractor_Chunks]

I dont blame you not wanting to touch it. I wouldnt either. I would have stressed for them to remove it asap just so nothing else happens. I dont know what size property you have, where you live, or where you plan to use this tractor or for what, but I think I would 100% go with a B. If the price is close on a 2601 and a 2650 I would even step up to the 2650 - I think these 2 tractors are usually within about $1,000 of each other. Stretch that 1k over the life of a loan and its just a few extra dollars a month and you get a 1.3L engine vs a 1.1L engine, and a slightly heavier tractor, so It will pull more weight on the 3pt hitch - it will also lift more as it has a little higher hydraulic pump flow. Its not a huge jump from the 2601 but the price is so similar typically, and the physical size is so close, Its one of those easy step up's to make in my opinion that you can feel good about 3 years from now. You will find a lot of use for this tractor over the next many years. Helping friends, family, etc with projects, doing your own projects...Buy as much tractor as you can reasonably afford. The L2501 which I have is a great little tractor for me. It is likely over the threshold of what you are wanting though - it also has no Mid Mount PTO which I think you want. My pick would be the 2650. I find it hard to pick a 2601 with the 2650 sitting there at just a smidgen more in price, but a bump in capabilities across the board.

Playing around with the online Kubota build tool, for maybe $2800 I could upgrade from the B2601 TLB to the B2650. It would be maybe a 10% increase in cost, gaining 8-25% increases in lift and reach capacities and probably most significant, a 180deg swing backhoe. With a large farm or woods that would probably be a good upgrade. I'm working mostly in small residential lots and while the B2601 is better than the BX in constrained spaces (as I see it), the B2650 will be 10% heavier, wider, and longer (and I think significantly longer with the BH77 backhoe, which seems extra long compared to the BH70). Maybe if the B2650 turned tighter than the B2601, it would still work as well in a tight space. The one way that a 2650 would probably be better in tight spaces is the 180deg swing on the backhoe - that might let you dig in situations where the 140deg arc doesn't work. I also need to be able to tool around the neighborhood without looking like a menace, and the B2650 might start to push that limit (though I mostly expect neighbors will be asking for favors more than frowning at me).

The B2650 will force me to go with a 60" mower deck, which may be a bit wide for me. The B2601 now comes with the 1-lever quick coupler on the loader. I didn't think I'd care about this very much, but after trying it a few times, and then trying standard couplers, I really like the 1-lever with the flat-faced couplers. B01's have the option of bar-turf tires (which I think I want?), but I don't see that option for the 50's. I think I prefer the standard gauges on the B01's vs the LCD on the 50's. We're getting into minor details now though. I would be really interested if one tractor were significantly quieter than the other, but I don't have data on that.

That 180 degree swing on the backhoe though....

 

[dirtydeed]

there will surely be times that I'm loading materials into someone else's truck.

If you believe that this will be a common task, I'd suggest that you think about this critically. These small machines can have some severe limitations in this regard when it comes to trying to "dump" stuff. They run out of height/reach very quickly especially with modern pick ups.

PS. While reading your posts describing all the tasks that you're likely to encounter, I sure hope that you are planning on doing this above board. I'm unfamiliar with the laws of your state, but, I hope that you have some sort of contracting licence and are fully insured for liability. Seriously.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

I haven't had any problem dumping stuff,like mulch, dirt, ponypoop into either my pickup or 6by10 dump trailer. I average 1 6by10 a week of material , year round. Sure not as easy as a full size TLB or excavator, but quite do-able.

For sure have proper insuarance and papers for doing commercial work ! I hear suing is the #1 pastime south of the 49th.

 

[SMKK]

The B2650 will force me to go with a 60" mower deck, which may be a bit wide for me. The B2601 now comes with the 1-lever quick coupler on the loader. I didn't think I'd care about this very much, but after trying it a few times, and then trying standard couplers, I really like the 1-lever with the flat-faced couplers. B01's have the option of bar-turf tires (which I think I want?), but I don't see that option for the 50's. I think I prefer the standard gauges on the B01's vs the LCD on the 50's. We're getting into minor details now though. I would be really interested if one tractor were significantly quieter than the other, but I don't have data on that.

That 180 degree swing on the backhoe though....

Something to note on the B2650 - it has been discussed here before as well - the mower deck is raised by the 3 point arms, and with the back hoe attached this function is disabled unless you get an adapter kit. Also I wouldn't be doing dirt work with a MMM attached regardless of clearance. I drop my deck off when I am not mowing, and I mow without the BH or the FEL attached. Something to consider

 

[Tractor_Chunks]

If you believe that this will be a common task, I'd suggest that you think about this critically. These small machines can have some severe limitations in this regard when it comes to trying to "dump" stuff. They run out of height/reach very quickly especially with modern pick ups.

PS. While reading your posts describing all the tasks that you're likely to encounter, I sure hope that you are planning on doing this above board. I'm unfamiliar with the laws of your state, but, I hope that you have some sort of contracting licence and are fully insured for liability. Seriously.

Hmm, the BX seemed high enough and the B's dump even higher. I would think reach would be the bigger issue - this is one thing that Kubota seems to win out on, as the 1025r seemed to have much worse reach with the loader. I have one neighbor who always wants dirt - if I have extra fill from a project, he comes in his old pickup and fills the bed with a shovel, multiple times.

I haven't invested much time looking into insurance issues just yet, but I'll probably do something there. I have liability coverage, but not specific to tractor stuff. I'm not 'hiring out' anytime soon. Liability and legal issues is something I do feel comfortable navigating. Technical tractor stuff is where it seems I need help

Something to note on the B2650 - it has been discussed here before as well - the mower deck is raised by the 3 point arms, and with the back hoe attached this function is disabled unless you get an adapter kit. Also I wouldn't be doing dirt work with a MMM attached regardless of clearance. I drop my deck off when I am not mowing, and I mow without the BH or the FEL attached. Something to consider

I did not know about the backhoe disabling the 3 point on the B2650. How does this work, exactly? I do not imagine I'd ever mow with the backhoe attached. My ground clearance concerns on the mower deck have to do with getting through tight spots. Example: a narrow passage that the tractor tires can fit though but with 6" raised beds or stones on either side. If the deck can be raised high enough, I can drive through.

 

[SMKK]

I did not know about the backhoe disabling the 3 point on the B2650. How does this work, exactly? I do not imagine I'd ever mow with the backhoe attached. My ground clearance concerns on the mower deck have to do with getting through tight spots. Example: a narrow passage that the tractor tires can fit though but with 6" raised beds or stones on either side. If the deck can be raised high enough, I can drive through.

The 3pt arms and top link have to come off for the BH to attach. The arms lift the mower deck through the use of a little bracket that is part of the mower assembly. You can get an adapter kit to add but I can't see why anyone would want to keep the deck on and run the BH too.

As far as clearance you are not going get much more than 6-8" I would say. My deck is off and put away now, but from what I recall that was about what was under the anti-scalp wheels, depending on the height you have set.

If space is such an issue for the cost of a MMM deck you could pickup a little garden tractor at like 42-48" and not have any issues. Maybe you are just trying to do to much with one machine. I dont break out the back hoe to plant flowers. You have to use the right tool for the job.

 

[Tractor_Chunks]

The 3pt arms and top link have to come off for the BH to attach. The arms lift the mower deck through the use of a little bracket that is part of the mower assembly. You can get an adapter kit to add but I can't see why anyone would want to keep the deck on and run the BH too.

If you mean the lift rods and links, isn't that the case with all backhoes? On the models I've been looking at, I've never seen the 3 point hitch kit stay on with the backhoe. But it sounds like you're saying that specifically on the B2650, those linkages are also integral to the MMM, is that right? I could see that maybe being annoying for transport purposes, and I guess it is one more thing you have to do to switch from backhoe to mower work.

As far as clearance you are not going get much more than 6-8" I would say. My deck is off and put away now, but from what I recall that was about what was under the anti-scalp wheels, depending on the height you have set.

From my little experience, even the difference between 5" and 6" is rather significant. If you told me I'd go from 6" to 8" of clearance going from a BX to a B, I'd value that.

If space is such an issue for the cost of a MMM deck you could pickup a little garden tractor at like 42-48" and not have any issues. Maybe you are just trying to do to much with one machine. I dont break out the back hoe to plant flowers. You have to use the right tool for the job.

People have been telling me multiple machines and that I'm trying to do too much with one machine since I started asking questions. I believe they're right and I'm very slowly coming around and trying to 'whittle' away some of my less important tractor applications. I got really distracted by a rotary broom setup on the BX and I've now just removed that from the list. Right now, being able to mow with the tractor is not terribly important (that could change in the coming years though). However, I do want to use the tractor as a heavy-duty material collector. People have been telling me to just get a riding mower, but it isnt' clear to me what kind of rider I'd need to mulch up large quantities of heavy leaf fall and haul a ~1,000lb collection system around. I'll use the loader to push the compost pile, so even with a riding mower, I still need the tractor around to help. Last, even though I have a leaf collector with its own engine, I'm really attracted to the PTO drive collector options like the Protero and TerraKing. I could easily see myself going in that direction, and that won't work with a simple riding mower.
Another thing that comes to mind is the ground speed on a tractor (especially a 3 range like the B2601) would be really nice for material transfer during fall and spring cleanups. There are people in my area who will absolutely take delivery of mulched leaves and compostable materials (it's kind of a running joke in the area as there are one or more people who go around and 'steal' stashes of leaf bags if the leaves are well-mulched). Having the mower/collection setup on a larger/faster tractor would sure make a world of difference if I started delivering the mulched materials to neighbors (as well as to my own compost pile, several blocks away). I don't see myself driving a small riding mower with a trailer twice its weight very far on a wavy cobblestone road. So while a B series tractor may not be considered the best finish mower choice, I'm wondering if it does make more sense for the way I plan to use it.

There's a guy on Youtube with a channel named "Marks Misfit World" who does a lot of major leaf cleanups (he uses zero-turns, of course, one of which is about $10k). I've also watched TTWT with his TerraKing collector. Seems to me, you really want a very powerful and robust mower if your purpose is mulching and material collection. Bogging down is just not acceptable and a good way to constantly clog the collector. I'm fairly impressed with these tractor MMM decks with their heavy build, thick belts, and thick blades. The decks weigh 2-300lb whereas an entire hardware store riding mower might weigh 4-500lb. Am I onto something, or does none of this matter for my use?

 

[GreensvilleJay]

OK, I use a 20 year old ,22HP MTD rider( say Cub Cadet, BTW) 42" deck with 2 bags as my 'mulch maker - picker upper'. I do about an acre of grass/maple leaves AND chop down the giant pumkins vines( main stalks are 4" round). Had the garden for 20 years, bigkins for 5. Run the deck high, near max RPMs and never ever had an issue creating 'mulch'. Bags fill up fast though...heck there's a LOT of leaves on one giant pumpkin, let alone 85 tomato plants ! I paid $300 for the rider 20 years ago, another $20 for 'hilift ' blades. No issues with engine or hydrostat and it sits outside all winter. Put a car battery in it cause lil bats don't last ! I don't know why anyone 'needs' a 250+-# deck. I'd love someone who owns one WHAT are the benefits. I've maintained riders,fixed and flipped them for 30+ years, maybe 500-600 units..easy to lose track..every colour, every size.. As for hauling a heavy load, that size rider will easily pull a 500# lawn roller ( 4' wide, 2' round, 1/4" plate). Heck the 9HP Sears will pull it. slow and steady wins the race.
The tow behind, powerered lawnvacs I've seen and repaired are designed to be hauled by riders, just check the glossy pictures in the ads !
The reason for multiple units is simple....in one word 'backups'. As a business, if you only have one machine and it's in the shop, you're not making money and your customer ain't happy ! If it's 'personal' then you've lost time by not getting some project done, time you'll never,ever get back.
There is no ONE perfect tractor, does everything for everyone. The best you can hope for, is that you make a realistic list of what it 'should' do and that whatever you buy DOES at least 63.333% of them !

 

[SMKK]

If you mean the lift rods and links, isn't that the case with all backhoes? On the models I've been looking at, I've never seen the 3 point hitch kit stay on with the backhoe. But it sounds like you're saying that specifically on the B2650, those linkages are also integral to the MMM, is that right? I could see that maybe being annoying for transport purposes, and I guess it is one more thing you have to do to switch from backhoe to mower work.

The areas circled in red is the bracket that is part of the mower frame (part that stays on the tractor) and lifts the mower deck when it is attached. Once the deck is lifted you pin it in place and the 3pt does nothing.

 

[Tractor_Chunks]

OK, I use a 20 year old ,22HP MTD rider( say Cub Cadet, BTW) 42" deck with 2 bags as my 'mulch maker - picker upper'. I do about an acre of grass/maple leaves AND chop down the giant pumkins vines( main stalks are 4" round). Had the garden for 20 years, bigkins for 5. Run the deck high, near max RPMs and never ever had an issue creating 'mulch'. Bags fill up fast though...heck there's a LOT of leaves on one giant pumpkin, let alone 85 tomato plants ! I paid $300 for the rider 20 years ago, another $20 for 'hilift ' blades. No issues with engine or hydrostat and it sits outside all winter. Put a car battery in it cause lil bats don't last ! I don't know why anyone 'needs' a 250+-# deck. I'd love someone who owns one WHAT are the benefits. I've maintained riders,fixed and flipped them for 30+ years, maybe 500-600 units..easy to lose track..every colour, every size.. As for hauling a heavy load, that size rider will easily pull a 500# lawn roller ( 4' wide, 2' round, 1/4" plate). Heck the 9HP Sears will pull it. slow and steady wins the race.
The tow behind, powerered lawnvacs I've seen and repaired are designed to be hauled by riders, just check the glossy pictures in the ads !
The reason for multiple units is simple....in one word 'backups'. As a business, if you only have one machine and it's in the shop, you're not making money and your customer ain't happy ! If it's 'personal' then you've lost time by not getting some project done, time you'll never,ever get back.
There is no ONE perfect tractor, does everything for everyone. The best you can hope for, is that you make a realistic list of what it 'should' do and that whatever you buy DOES at least 63.333% of them !

I don't have much tractor/riding mower experience. I do have a lot of woodworking experience and for cutting machines, the mass of the machine and the mass of the cutters are almost as important as the power of the drive motor. Mass is king for keeping the machine stable and keeping it from rattling itself apart. The mass of the cutter keeps everything smooth and consistent and helps power through hard spots. Same with a wood chipper or shredder - extra mass throughout, especially in the flywheel/drum, is really important. So that's where I'm coming from when looking at the mass of the mower decks and blades (though I don't actually know if the blades on tractor decks are any heavier than the blades on small riding mowers).

I have a gas walk-behind mower that I sometimes use for clearing overgrown areas (it is the one mower I have earmarked for this type of work). I abuse it and use it for mowing down pretty much anything I can ram it into. I can get it to cut down little 1/2" saplings, maybe 3/4". I'm always stalling it and bending the blade, yank out whatever got jammed in there, remove the blade and bend it back, touch it up with the angle grinder, keep going. I don't plan to 'abuse' my tractor mower, but I like to think whatever I get will be able to obliterate sticks/branches that may be hiding under the leaves, and not be damaged in any way (and even better, have the power to mulch it up and send it into the collector).

Sounds like you'll know the answer to this: where do you draw the line for small riding mowers and tractor mowers in terms of sticks/branches and overgrowth? 4" vines sounds nuts, but maybe they're not as woody as I'm imagining? (btw, I am aware that brush hogs exist)

 

[D2Cat]

If you have a habit of doing this:

I have a gas walk-behind mower that I sometimes use for clearing overgrown areas (it is the one mower I have earmarked for this type of work). I abuse it and use it for mowing down pretty much anything I can ram it into. I can get it to cut down little 1/2" saplings, maybe 3/4". I'm always stalling it and bending the blade, yank out whatever got jammed in there, remove the bland and bend it back, touch it up with the angle grinder, keep going.

You will eventually have a broken crankshaft on that engine. And if you straighten a bent blade enough times you risk it failing by becoming more than one piece. It then becomes a projectile, and you're standing right there!

Get you a rider, no matter what brand it it.

 

[Tractor_Chunks]

If you have a habit of doing this:


You will eventually have a broken crankshaft on that engine. And if you straighten a bent blade enough times you risk it failing by becoming more than one piece. It then becomes a projectile, and you're standing right there!

Get you a rider, no matter what brand it it.

That junk mower has done work beyond its value multiple times over. My general point was that it seems like there's some value to be had in a heavy duty deck with a super robust drive system and thick heavy blades.

At this point I'm thinking I will try to buy a used riding mower, but I'll also get a MMM for my tractor. Let real use sort out what works best and sell whatever doesn't earn its keep. This would also satisfy GreensvilleJay's argument for redundancy. Though, I'll also need a 2nd collection system as well in order to satisfy that.

I continue to be worried about towing a 1,200lb collector with a small riding mower. I've been checking around and most manufactures are advising tow limits at half the total mower weight (mower + driver), with some saying the trailer should never exceed the weight of the mower. Of course, I also find people talking about towing cars and trucks with their riding mowers. I found one thread where someone bought a B2601 and said the MMM was a huge improvement for handling dense wet leaves over his riding mower.

I'm struggling to find anyplace that actually has a B2601 with a backhoe that I could go look at.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

When using any 'leaf/grss' collection system, you need 'high-lift' mower blades since you primary purpose is to 'pickup leaves' in the fall. You don't need a deck(shell) made of 1/4" plate steel or 'heavy duty' blades ,they are a true waste of money. My 'shell' is 15-20 years old and still solid, unlike most I see that come here for service. I always cut mid to late afternoon when grass is dry,sometimes twice a week. I also remove built up grass wads from under the deck. Blades get sharpened once per month, April to October as I also grease the spindles then. Yes, I modified the OEM spindles to have grease fittings.Simple task , took an hour, saves buying $100 spindles every 2-3 years !
Towing limits depend more on the transmission / transaxle. Old gear trannies were built tough, real TOUGH ! Yes, you CAN pull 4,000# tractors with them,BTDT. My ST12 has a 'granny gear setup' (3 over 2) so it's the belt drive that'll slip . Hydrostatic trannies are different though. It seems very few owners actually clean the mud/grass/junk OFF the cooling fins or check oil levels. Some JD units are famous for dying as the oil literally boils away.$25 cure for that....
I'm curious as to what a 'full load of leaves' actually weighs in at though.

 

[Tractor_Chunks]

I'm curious as to what a 'full load of leaves' actually weighs in at though.

That I can't say for sure. In one instance I had the collector setup in a stationary spot, not hooked up to anything and just using it as a material collector with backpack blowers. I completely filled the collector and then tried to manually move it to where I could hook it back up to my vehicle. I didn't quite realize the weight and it got out of control as I moved it down a moderately sloped driveway skirt and then it tipped. I'm 220lb and I can deadlift over 400lb, but I couldn't even get one side of the collector to budge. that tells me it was well over 1,000lb total. The collector weighs about 350lb empty and holds 1.6 yards of material, and it shreds it up pretty well so it packs in pretty densely, especially with wet material. If we guessed that wet mulched leaves are only half as dense as compost, that would easily be 1,000lb of leaves plus the 350lb collector. I do suspect it could have pulled a smaller riding mower sideways down a slope with it. I suspect it would easily jacknife a small rider if you were not very careful. I think one of the issues is that the way the collector is designed for easy dumping, it keeps a lot of the material weight in the back and puts almost no tongue weight on the tow vehicle. In fact, when the collector starts tipping back over its axle, you easily start to get negative tongue weight, which will be very bad for control with the mower.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

the dumping sounds scary and very poorly designed, No way should the toungue of the trailer ever lift off !

please post make/model info of the 'collector'.. a base weight of 350 is a LOT, similar to a 4by8 utilty trailer ! I'm wondering what the MFR says... what tires are on it, size of 'bin', how it dumps, etc.

 

[PaulL]

I get that you could pull a collector with an old ride on mower. You also could pull it with a B2601. The B2601 would probably pull it better, and you'll have a B2601 if you buy one. Why buy another machine? Then your concerns about weight are addressed, the B2601 will drive from property to property far faster than an old ride on, and if you leave the FEL on you may find that you sometimes want to just lift piles of leaves with the bucket as well.

Did I hear you say you had a trailer that all this went into so that you could drag to your compost pile? If so, the B2601 will pull that trailer as well quite happily.

There are some jobs where it's nice to have multiple machines - one hooked to the trailer, one with a mower etc. Then you're not constantly hooking and unhooking. But if your process was to put the cyclone rake on the big trailer, hook the big trailer to the B2601, drive to where you're doing pickup. Take cyclone rake off, connect to B2601. Drive around collecting leaves, including loads with FEL if appropriate, dumping onto trailer. Take off cyclone rake, tow trailer to whereever you empty it, come back, continue filling. End of day, one last trip to empty trailer and come back to pick up the cyclone rake.

Alternatively the big trailer could be connected to your truck. But it sounds like you work alone, so then you're going to drive truck and trailer to work area, walk back to your house, drive B2601 and cyclone rake to work area, work all day, end of day drive B2601 home, walk back, drive truck and trailer home. Seems more complex to me. Maybe an electric scooter could make it more practical, but all seems like more work than you need.

And all of this means that a tractor with a good road speed is kind of useful - so that B2601 starts looking way better than the BX, or the JD for that matter.

 

[Sparky73]

Well after reading every post in both threads, I think you should write-off a tractor purchase and invest that cash in a life coach who can help you with your decision making skills. Yes, I decided on a B2650 after thoroughly researching the BX, L, and JD's equivalents. That research took me about a week and I purchased about 3 weeks after beginning my research. Couldn't be happier with my B. Just stop typing and make a decision FFS.

 

[D2Cat]

Well after reading every post in both threads, I think you should write-off a tractor purchase and invest that cash in a life coach who can help you with your decision making skills. Yes, I decided on a B2650 after thoroughly researching the BX, L, and JD's equivalents. That research took me about a week and I purchased about 3 weeks after beginning my research. Couldn't be happier with my B. Just stop typing and make a decision FFS.

What he said!

 

[Tractor_Chunks]

the dumping sounds scary and very poorly designed, No way should the toungue of the trailer ever lift off !

please post make/model info of the 'collector'.. a base weight of 350 is a LOT, similar to a 4by8 utilty trailer ! I'm wondering what the MFR says... what tires are on it, size of 'bin', how it dumps, etc.

Hi Jay, they're designed that way to make them easy to dump. I'm referring to a DR Pro XL321, but from what I've seen, the Cyclone Rakes dump in a similar way. Looking it up, DR is saying 313lb, then add the electric start, I wasn't too far off. DR is using 4 14x4.5" tires. The Cyclone Rake XL holds a full 2 yards of material, and seems to use smaller wheels (swiveling casters, actually). 2 yards of material could end up be ridiculously heavy. I found one guy saying his Cyclone Rake would pull his riding mower down a slight hill if he tried to drive sideways across the slope instead of straight up and down.

I get that you could pull a collector with an old ride on mower. You also could pull it with a B2601. The B2601 would probably pull it better, and you'll have a B2601 if you buy one. Why buy another machine? Then your concerns about weight are addressed, the B2601 will drive from property to property far faster than an old ride on, and if you leave the FEL on you may find that you sometimes want to just lift piles of leaves with the bucket as well.

Did I hear you say you had a trailer that all this went into so that you could drag to your compost pile? If so, the B2601 will pull that trailer as well quite happily.

There are some jobs where it's nice to have multiple machines - one hooked to the trailer, one with a mower etc. Then you're not constantly hooking and unhooking. But if your process was to put the cyclone rake on the big trailer, hook the big trailer to the B2601, drive to where you're doing pickup. Take cyclone rake off, connect to B2601. Drive around collecting leaves, including loads with FEL if appropriate, dumping onto trailer. Take off cyclone rake, tow trailer to whereever you empty it, come back, continue filling. End of day, one last trip to empty trailer and come back to pick up the cyclone rake.

Alternatively the big trailer could be connected to your truck. But it sounds like you work alone, so then you're going to drive truck and trailer to work area, walk back to your house, drive B2601 and cyclone rake to work area, work all day, end of day drive B2601 home, walk back, drive truck and trailer home. Seems more complex to me. Maybe an electric scooter could make it more practical, but all seems like more work than you need.

And all of this means that a tractor with a good road speed is kind of useful - so that B2601 starts looking way better than the BX, or the JD for that matter.

All great points Paul. No, i don't generally load a trailer to haul leaves, or rather, I don't want to (actually hoping the right tractor/collector setup will put an end to that nonsense). The collection system is the trailer. I guess if I needed to go further out, your idea of having the tractor/trailer/collector could work. You're spot-on with the usefulness of being able to drive faster on the road. I'm realizing that the more I think about it.

Well after reading every post in both threads, I think you should write-off a tractor purchase and invest that cash in a life coach who can help you with your decision making skills. Yes, I decided on a B2650 after thoroughly researching the BX, L, and JD's equivalents. That research took me about a week and I purchased about 3 weeks after beginning my research. Couldn't be happier with my B. Just stop typing and make a decision FFS.

Sounds like you're a real sharp-shooter. I'm not interested in hiring you or going to your seminar though.