What to get and what not to get from dealer when purchasing tractor

[Dunbar]

After reading as much as I can here and on other forums I have pretty much decided to get a new L2501. The specials through the end of the month with zero percent financing just make sense. I understand that at the time of purchase is a good time to get implements and attachments. I'll list my wish list below and would love to hear comments on what components to get priced and or purchase with the tractor and what to wait and get elsewhere.

I'm in Tomball Texas on the Northwest side of Houston. The big dealer here is Landsdowne-Moody. with 6 locations in the Houston area. Another large volume but small town dealer nearby is Normangee Tractor and Implement Co

I had initially thought to not get a backhoe attachment but to rent as needed. After much reading, especially posts by those of you have have a backhoe, I decided to strongly consider purchasing one. I have lots of trenching to do now and lots of stumps to dig out.

Now the list:
L2501 with FEL with R4 industrial tires
BH77 backhoe
Rotary cutter
Box blade
Rear finish mower
Quick attach forks
Post hole auger
Grapple
Top and possibly Tilt or the adjustable 3 pt retrofit kit
QA FEL kit
QA 3pt adapter

Discussion:
With the BH there will be hydraulics in the rear. When not mounted can these hydraulics be used for 3 point attachments such as Top cylinder?
I'm reading that the factory connections are nice especially when having 2 sets or more. Should I get the valves and piece the rest together as I have seen members here do?
Excluding the backhoe I think I need one remote set for the front and 2 for the rear. I don't mind spending the extra $ up front to prepare for future use.

So what hydraulics do I work into the original tractor purchase?
Which of the implements above would I get at initial purchase? I read that sometimes the lowest end units are in the dealer bundles. Which base level ones should I avoid for a heavier built one?

My property is mostly sand with few rocks if any but lots of roots and stumps to deal with. My driveway and the private road I share with 9 other homeowners need maintenance. Driveway is only 250' long. We recently got the road worked over with limestone for $2500 for less than 1/2 mile. I might also take the tractor to my lake house for dredging granite gravel from the lake-bed when they lower it.

My new member introduction post has details on the property. It does not say that I am going to be burying hundreds of feet of electric lines and irrigation lines as well as possibly digging for a Post and beam foundation for the 3000 sq-ft house addition. Also digging dirt out of the barn to prep for a slab and slab prep for a 40'x60' or 40' x 100' shop.
If I can get 1/3rd of the backhoe purchase price to offset short term mini-excavator rental then I want the have the BH as part of my arsenal.
I really appreciate the helpful advise I get here and have to say that this is probably the most civilized user forum I have ever been on.

 

[majorwager]

Believe that you will be roundly disappointed in the performance delivered by a small tractor BH. I have a ten ft Long Brand BH, about 17 gpm PTO pump.

Mine can't hold a candle to a integral mini excavator. Many perspective owners perceive long term productivity. Digging stumps is a handful task, even for commercial construction models.

Much more productive to bundle the tasks and hire a contractor to promptly dispatch your tasks. If you are PROFICIENT w/ BH controls, it may be feasible to rent a mini excavator.

This is generally difficult for some purchasers to accept, but if I have a short term BH task, a farm animal to bury for example, I just hire the work.

It just isn't worth the effort to wrestle w/ my 1200 lb BH.

As far as digging a building foundation w/ a small tractor BH, refer to the patience of the biblical character JOB

EDIT: I must backtrack. If $ is no object, by all means buy a BH attachment. Also did NOT suggest using a mini excavator absent a tractor/ FEL. Recommended the combination, both pieces, probably wasn't clear.

 

[85Hokie]

AS much as I understand majors point of view on the backhoe........and I agree, the mini hoe will work circles around the frame mounted hoe of the 2501 .....

BUT when it comes to moving dirt.....and digging up that stump and hauling it off....the tractor/fel/hoe compo will win all day long!!!!

I have had my BX25D for 5 years.....maybe 30-40 hours on the hoe end.......but EVERY time I need it ...it is there!! I have zero, nada, goose egg bad thoughts about buying it! BEst part of the machine....almost!

Have them fill the rear tires....and with ALL that you get ......HAVE them place a toothbar or something else on the FEL along with HOOKs on the bucket!

 

[Dunbar]

I should have separated the BH discussion from the rest of my post as I anticipated negative responses. The hydraulics are why I had to throw it in the discussion.
Any input on the other attachments?
My brother in law Dean is an expert operator and his older brother paul was boss of many large scale dirt moving operations. If I want a BH and can afford it, well....

 

[BAP]

Don’t let all the Mini-Excavator fans get you down. I have a BH65 for my B2920 tractor. In 10 minutes I can have the 3pt hitch arms off and the backhoe on and vice versa. Then go do what I need to. There is no way I could go rent an excavator and haul it home in that amount of time. Sure, it is a little slower digging, but I grew up operating backhoes and can get a lot of work out of it. Plus, 1 less machine to own. I would get one again in a heartbeat.
As far as rear hydraulics, the lines to run the backhoe Cannot be used to operate other cylinders. For that, you need the rear remote option. If you get that option choose 2 outlets in case you do add top-n-tilt. I would also get the Thumb option on your backhoe, handy for picking up items you have dug out. As far what other implements to get, depending on what Kubota is running for programs right now, sometimes they have rebates on extra implements. I hope this helps and feel free to ask more.

 

[AndyM]

I will second the backhoe comments - had no idea how I would justify the cost of it. But having had it I can't imagine NOT having it. No doubt it pales to a mini ex but as a useful add I have zero regrets and would do it again.

 

[Dunbar]

Thanks for the comments from the BH owners. I am heading to the dealer today for a first look at the machines. I might go ahead and get a quote for a tractor. Before purchasing I'll get quotes from other dealers.

So back to my list. The Landsdowne-Moody bundle for L2501 HST 4x4 is a Labor Day Special.

Is the Land Pride BB 1260 60" Box Blade any good?

What about the rotary cutters? They have the RCR 1260 60" unit in their bundle. They also toss in a LP PD 15 Post Hole Digger w/9" Auger and a AmeriTrailer Ranch King TC1861070ESR w/ramps & spare.

MSRP $27,768 Cash Price $23,645 Finance Price $24,145 with $2,300 down and $346/month for 60 months @ 0%.

But it cost $650 to upgrade to R4 tires and $600 for QA for front bucket. Then I'm adding 2 rear hydraulic remotes and one front one so my price is going up. I'll update the costs to add the remotes and might as well see what they charge for Top & Tilt while I'm at it. Thoughts on adding remotes at purchase?

Thanks for the input.

 

[Donystoy]

I have a B7200 hst with a woods 650 BH. I have dug basements and driveways with it without any issues. Just recently dug 600 feet of trench 6' deep. For anything deeper than 6' I just dig a ramp. Just takes longer than a larger BH but labor is free. For tree stumps I either rent a grinder or hire it out.

 

[greeno]

You have some nice negotiating upgrades; inexpensive items to make or break a sale. And since you know more than one dealer sounds like you could have fun getting a “good” price.

Don’t forget no dealer losses money on a sale; they have mouths to feed just like you and me.


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[edritchey]

Those little backhoe attachments are pretty handy the only reason I didn't get the BH92 for my new MX5800 is because I already own a JD510 backhoe with a nice heated cab. I owned a BX24 and I didn't really use the backhoe much but when someone wanted to borrow a backhoe it was nice having a little machine like that around that could be hauled with just a 1/2 ton pickup. From the chores you listed it looks like you'll get a good bit of use out of the backhoe attachment on the L2501 you're looking at it will do most anything any other hoe will due it will just take a little longer where you might wish you had a real backhoe will be when you need to lift anything really heavy that little machine just isn't going to do it. Good luck with your new machine when you get it.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Thanks for the comments from the BH owners. I am heading to the dealer today for a first look at the machines. I might go ahead and get a quote for a tractor. Before purchasing I'll get quotes from other dealers.

So back to my list. The Landsdowne-Moody bundle for L2501 HST 4x4 is a Labor Day Special.

Is the Land Pride BB 1260 60" Box Blade any good?

What about the rotary cutters? They have the RCR 1260 60" unit in their bundle. They also toss in a LP PD 15 Post Hole Digger w/9" Auger and a AmeriTrailer Ranch King TC1861070ESR w/ramps & spare.

MSRP $27,768 Cash Price $23,645 Finance Price $24,145 with $2,300 down and $346/month for 60 months @ 0%.

But it cost $650 to upgrade to R4 tires and $600 for QA for front bucket. Then I'm adding 2 rear hydraulic remotes and one front one so my price is going up. I'll update the costs to add the remotes and might as well see what they charge for Top & Tilt while I'm at it. Thoughts on adding remotes at purchase?

Thanks for the input.

My recommendation for the rear remotes would be to get all 3 that are available and get at least 2 of them with the float feature.

Get the remotes at the time of purchase. Pretty much everyone that gets them after the fact wishes that they would have just gotten them to start with.

As far as any dirt working implement, weight is your friend. Purchase the heaviest implements you can afford that fit the tractor.

 

[BAP]

My question to you as far as the package deal goes is, Do you need all those attachments? If you don’t need them all, then it may not be a good deal for you. Also, most of the times that dealers put these advertised packages together, they aren’t the higher quality versions of the implements. The trailer listed at 18’ is a little short to get the tractor on with the loader on the tractor and the rear brush mower without having the bucket up over the trailer A frame. Also, depending on how you plan on using your trailer, I like the Equipment style with stake pockets versus the Landscape style with the railing down the sides. The reason I like the open sides is I can set lumber and pallets on with my tractor and forks. Also easier chaining down because I can reach on the trailer easier. If you need everything included, then it might be a good deal. If not, you might do better getting a price on what you actually need. Just some things to take in consideration.

 

[Dunbar]

Took your advise and talked to my closest dealer (14 miles away) about what I need for the jobs I have lined up on my property. Before talking models I described my property and showed him videos of the pasture and forest, including the hydro-axed remains of the jungle beneath the trees. He recommended L2501. He recommended not getting Top & Tilt for my 3.75 acres. Just manually adjust the box blade as needed. I'm not making money with the tractor nor do I have lots of acreage. That's his litmus test on hydraulics. He said if I buy a tractor he would get me a better rate on renting a larger excavator. He talked me out of spending $9k on a BH77.
Here is what I whittled it down to:

L2501 4x4 HST w/ LA525 FEL w/60" bucket w/QA
42" QA forks 2100lb capacity
LP BB 1560 60" box blade
LP RCR 1860 60" rotary cutter
R4 wheels filled
Bucket level indicator rod
Telescopic 3pt stabilizer kit

The other dealer packages come with the LP BB 1260 and RCR 1260
My upgrade costs are $325 on the box blade to the heavier steel and pinned teeth and $350 from the 1260 to the 1860 rotary cutter. It is heavier steel and has the curved top to side transition rather than the 90 degree welded edge.

No trailer but he will deliver for free and take time to advise on using the tractor on my property.
Price $22,500
0% down
0% interest for 60 months
Payment $440/month including Kubota insurance and taxes

Do I need a grapple? Not really but I'll need the forks. They have the tractor on premises but will have to get the QA kit and bucket level rod from their other locations. I'll have it in a week or less.
Thoughts on this deal?

 

[MtnViewRanch]

If you are going to do any grading on a regular basis, forget about making manual adjustments. I have no idea how old you are or what your time is worth to you, just remember what I said.

Get the remotes at the time of purchase. Pretty much everyone that gets them after the fact wishes that they would have just gotten them to start with.

It's easy for your dealer to tell you to just make the adjustments by hand, HE DOESN'T have to be getting on and off the tractor and it makes the cost of your purchase look better to you, so an easier sell for him.

I don't know of a single person that has to make manual 3pt hitch adjustments that doesn't end up with "That's good enough syndrome."

I don't know you from Adam, just telling you like it is.

I hope everything works out well for you.

 

[PaulL]

Sounds to me like good advice and good product selection from your dealer.

FWIW I agree with him on the manual adjustments - on my BX I can lean behind me and adjust the top link without getting off, potentially you can on an L2501 too. Either way, I'd have thought with driveway work and similar you mostly set it how you want it and then use it.

Depending on exactly what you're doing with a box blade, you may find one of the combined land plane / box blade setups to be good / better. Refer this video for an example, there are a few that talk about them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mA19DxgwLY I don't personally have a gravel driveway, so can't talk from experience, but youtube seems to suggest they're pretty good.

On the remotes, I'd agree that those who add them later wish they'd got them up front. The question is how many people don't get them up front and are glad they didn't spend the money, because they never buy an implement that needs them?

The telescopic arms I think will be excellent, an L2501 is just big enough that man-handling the implements to get them on will be hard work.

 

[Dunbar]

For the last hour I have been second guessing on not getting a remote. Looking at the EA Wicked Root Grapple with it's reasonable price thinking I sure could use that. I have also read that I can use a rear remote with it. Is that true? If I were to get one remote should it be on the rear? I could use it for a top link cylinder for the BB and route a long hose for using the grapple. This sounds a bit shaky for trying to save $1k but I don't want to add thousands and wind up not using remotes. I'm going to do some more searching. We are really only adding $50 or so to my monthly payment to future proof my tractor.

 

[Clover13]

If you are going to do any grading on a regular basis, forget about making manual adjustments. I have no idea how old you are or what your time is worth to you, just remember what I said.

Get the remotes at the time of purchase. Pretty much everyone that gets them after the fact wishes that they would have just gotten them to start with.

It's easy for your dealer to tell you to just make the adjustments by hand, HE DOESN'T have to be getting on and off the tractor and it makes the cost of your purchase look better to you, so an easier sell for him.

I don't know of a single person that has to make manual 3pt hitch adjustments that doesn't end up with "That's good enough syndrome."

I don't know you from Adam, just telling you like it is.

I hope everything works out well for you.

Good input. What is the 3rd hydraulic use case (sorry I'm new to tractors)? My plan was to get the 2 valves added and the top and tilt to use with a box blade for the exact reasons you mentioned, but I couldn't think of how I'd use the 3rd valve.

And what determines which type you get?
pick a total of 3 from the following items
SPRING CENTER VALVE SECTION PNF
FLOAT DETENT VALVE
SELF CANCELLING DETENT VALVE SECTION PNF

 

[PaulL]

I have also read that I can use a rear remote with it. Is that true?

I think you can use a rear remote to drive a grapple, or a front remote to drive a rear implement. It means running long hoses, and that the ergonomics aren't as you'd like - for a grapple you really want the 3rd function on the FEL stick, for a rear implement you want it on the levers near the 3ph lift.

So either can be done, neither is brilliant. If I were you I'd decide what sort of implement you're more likely to use / likely to use most, and then go with that, and compromise for the other (assuming you don't want to drop the money for both a rear remote and a front 3rd function).

If it were me, I'd go with the 3rd function. If you're serious about a grapple, it's the kind of implement where you use the hydraulics on every grab, and you do it while you're lifting or curling the FEL - so having it on the FEL stick is important. Whereas for a top link you might adjust it every couple minutes till you get it right, but probably not continuously like a grapple, and probably not at the same time as lifting/dropping the 3ph (or not quite in the integrated way you do with a grapple). If you have to reach for the loader stick to adjust the top link it's not as annoying ergonomically.

 

[PaulL]

What is the 3rd hydraulic use case (sorry I'm new to tractors)? My plan was to get the 2 valves added and the top and tilt to use with a box blade for the exact reasons you mentioned, but I couldn't think of how I'd use the 3rd valve.

Maybe hydraulic angle on a back blade, or if you're doing more field work there's various tilts, angles, lifting batwings on mowers and that kind of thing. I think the logic is that with rear remotes getting two doesn't cost twice as much as getting one, so if you're doing it maybe just do both.

 

[Dunbar]

Thanks Paul.
Unless I have an unforseen purchase of property this will be the only tractor I purchase for a decade or more. (Are those like famous last words?) I don't want to kick myself later so I'm back to thinking to bite the bullet and add remotes. So what is it going to run for 3rd function for the front and 2 sets of remotes for the rear? $3,000 or so? How do I price it on Kubota's tractor build utility? When you expand "Rear Remote Hydraulic Valves" there are radio buttons to select with:
Mounting Base with Valve Kits
-None
-FIRST POSITION VALVE KIT W/LOADER
-PLUS 2ND POSITION VALVE KIT (CHOICE OF VALVE FOR 2ND POSITION)
-PLUS 3RD POSITION VALVE KIT (CHOICE OF VALVES FOR 2ND & 3RD POSITION)
When I check either of the last two options I have to make more selections

Section 1 -- pick 1 of the following items
FLOAT DETENT VALVE

DETENT VALVE

I assume that is all for the rear remotes. The under Front Loader I have 3 options:
Loader Package
None
HEAVY DUTY FRONT LOADER PACKAGE
HEAVY DUTY FRONT LOADER W/2-LEVER STYLE COUPLER
Is the last one what I need for 3rd function or is it somewhere else in the matrix?
I'd like to work out the increase in monthly payment using this rather than talking to the salesman. I'd rather future proof where I can add Top & Tilt or a stump grinder/log splitter etc and a grapple by adding remotes now. I'd also like to work the math and then just tell the salesman what I want rather than have him talk me out of future proofing. Perhaps he sees it as a way to sell me another tractor in a few years by keeping this one stripped down.

Can anyone help with the pricing tool selections?