What is 'Regen' That is so problematic?

[ehenry]

Guys, both of my tractors are older and don't have or do 'regen'. I guess this is good thing because there are so many whos tractors are having issues doing it.

Can some one please explain to me exactly what regen is since I've no clue what is it? Is this something all diesel manufactures are doing now or just tractors.

Sorry if this has already been asked and answered.

 

[mdhughes]

Guys, both of my tractors are older and don't have or do 'regen'. I guess this is good thing because there are so many whos tractors are having issues doing it.

Can some one please explain to me exactly what regen is since I've no clue what is it? Is this something all diesel manufactures are doing now or just tractors.

Sorry if this has already been asked and answered.

The Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) is there to catch the soot from going into the air. As this builds up in the DPF the back pressure will raise. When the DPF get "full" the it will go through a regeneration (regen) process. This is done by injecting raw diesel into the exhaust to raise the temperature in the DPF to burn off the soot.

Hope this helps.

 

[ehenry]

Is this something all diesel manufacturers are doing or is it just agricultural machines?

 

[Daren Todd]

It's something required on all new diesels over 30 hp. Right now they use two different set up's to meet the new emissions regulations. First mentioned is the Diesel particulate filter or "DPF" system. Which injects diesel into the exhaust on a regeneration cycle.

The other uses Diesel Exhaust Fluid or "DEF" system. Most auto manufacturer's have switched to this system since it's more reliable and see it in the Chevy, Dodge, and Fords. They have a seperate tank that holds Diesel exhaust fluid (Cow Pee) and injects it into the exhaust

 

[jabloomf1230]

Newer diesel trucks have a DPF also. Wikipedia has a pretty good overview of this technology, which has been around for almost 50 years. You'd think in that time, someone would have figured out how to make it work better.

 

[bxray]

Do you have to stop working when in regen?

 

[sheepfarmer]

Do you have to stop working when in regen?

Not normally. If the operator doesn't notice the lights blinking or is unable to get the engine to meet the conditions for auto regen, after a while the tractor will "demand" a parked regen. Usually if the tractor is in auto regen mode you just have to make sure the rpm is high enough and that it stays there for about 15 min. For those of us with auto throttle it means putting it in manual throttle and upping the rpm until a light goes off and then going on with whatever we were doing.

 

[Cglaza]

Def fluid is not used for the regen process but is used though out the operation of the engine to reduce NOX emissions. It is more reliable because the engine is not recirculating exhaust gases back into the combustion chamber with an egr valve. Egr technology is notoriously unreliable and problematic. Some manufacturers use both technologies, such as over the road engines in highway tractors.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[JohnnyFbomb]

It's causing a lot of problems in the diesel truck world. you can no longer justify the extra cost of a diesel engine vs gas when comparing the mileage savings vs cost of ownership. 2007.5 was the first years trucks needed to have a DPF. I believe Urea was 2010? I own a 2006 F350 to stay under the radar. It's far from stock, as the 6.0L diesel it came with is junk.

 

[JohnnyFbomb]

Def fluid is not used for the regen process but is used though out the operation of the engine to reduce NOX emissions. It is more reliable because the engine is not recirculating exhaust gases back into the combustion chamber with an egr valve. Egr technology is notoriously unreliable and problematic. Some manufacturers use both technologies, such as over the road engines in highway tractors.

Some manufacturers are no longer using an EGR valve, as they can be removed. I have cummins turbo diesel that from the factory, they ground the exhaust lobe to close before TDC to keep exhaust in for a second cycle.

 

[Daren Todd]

It's causing a lot of problems in the diesel truck world. you can no longer justify the extra cost of a diesel engine vs gas when comparing the mileage savings vs cost of ownership. 2007.5 was the first years trucks needed to have a DPF. I believe Urea was 2010? I own a 2006 F350 to stay under the radar. It's far from stock, as the 6.0L diesel it came with is junk.

The notorious issue with the 6.0 was the wiring going to the injectors. Space is too tight causing the wires going to the injectors to get pinched in the valve cover causing premature failure of the injectors.

Service manager at the local ford dealer slipped up and made that comment when I had my service truck in there for yet more injector failures I pounced on the comment, and they had to own that problem for the next three years till the wiring harness burned up for the motor, and corporate decided to send the truck to auction.

Got stuck with the first generation dpf system after that Latest one, they switched to the v10 gasser. Gets a whopping 8 mph on the highway, 6 mpg in the city, and can barely make it up a good hill. And if your towing over 4,000 lbs, you should try to avoid said hill if you want to reach your destination today

 

[JohnnyFbomb]

The notorious issue with the 6.0 was the wiring going to the injectors. Space is too tight causing the wires going to the injectors to get pinched in the valve cover causing premature failure of the injectors.

Service manager at the local ford dealer slipped up and made that comment when I had my service truck in there for yet more injector failures I pounced on the comment, and they had to own that problem for the next three years till the wiring harness burned up for the motor, and corporate decided to send the truck to auction.

Got stuck with the first generation dpf system after that Latest one, they switched to the v10 gasser. Gets a whopping 8 mph on the highway, 6 mpg in the city, and can barely make it up a good hill. And if your towing over 4,000 lbs, you should try to avoid said hill if you want to reach your destination today

They had so many problems, they're still getting sued to this day. I did a cummins swap on mine and it's my dream truck now.

 

[Takota]

Back to the original post... The "regen" is not a big deal. Every 20 hours or so I get a flashing light and if I'm not running in a high rpm range I bring the rpms up until the light goes off ( usually about 2500) let it sit running for about 10-15 minutes, come back, drop the revs down and the light is off. See ya in 20 hours. Not a huge deal. You can delay it for so long to finish what you have to do, or just run it at high rpms. I haven't felt at any point like the end of the world was even in sight while doing this. My .02
p.s. Absolutely love my 7.3l and can't bring myself to spend 60k on a new truck.

 

[JohnnyFbomb]

I'm not sure if anyone makes a tuner that could delete the regen programming in the computer allowing you to remove the DPF. But Some appropriate size holes drilled through the filter core would improve flow and soot build up in the filter, thus less time in regen.

I learned this trick from this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWEFld4lEMo

 

[L.C. Gray]

Some manufacturers are no longer using an EGR valve, as they can be removed. I have cummins turbo diesel that from the factory, they ground the exhaust lobe to close before TDC to keep exhaust in for a second cycle.

They better close it many degrees before TDC or there's gonna be a wreck....

 

[GreensvilleJay]

hmm.. DPF 'system' seems to be ,well,um, oxymoronic....
trap the soot(unburned diesel fuel), then release later..using MORE diesel fuel
how this passes the EPA,esp in CA, is interesting..
kinda too bad no one's figured out how to make a cat convertoer for a diesel .....

as for the DPF emulator. 1) it violates several federal/state/prov laws, as well as Kubota warranties..... 2) using CAN-Bus is another 'can of worms' with a lot of problems. Have made several devices with CANBus,the 'brains' only costs $2 CDN.

 

[BruceP]

Meeting emissions standards by adding DPF, regen, cooled EGR....etc often means compromising reliability.

In fact, Caterpillar STOPPED manufacturing engines for over-the-road trucks because they did not wish to compromise reliability. Instead, they are focusing on heavy-equipment, stationary, and locomotive powerplants.

It is my understanding that VOLVO may have the best design when it comes to meeting emissions AND being reliable.

 

[BruceP]

hmm.. DPF 'system' seems to be ,well,um, oxymoronic....
trap the soot(unburned diesel fuel), then release later..using MORE diesel fuel
how this passes the EPA,esp in CA, is interesting..
kinda too bad no one's figured out how to make a cat convertoer for a diesel .....

as for the DPF emulator. 1) it violates several federal/state/prov laws, as well as Kubota warranties..... 2) using CAN-Bus is another 'can of worms' with a lot of problems. Have made several devices with CANBus,the 'brains' only costs $2 CDN.

You are missing the point.... DPF **IS** an exhaust-catalyst for diesels. "regen" (short for regeneration) is the action of burning off the soot captured in the exhaust-catalyst.

Also, SOOT is unburned carbon.... when the exhaust-catalyst gets hot enough, that captured soot will burn off with very little residue.

If the engine is run properly (high RPM/loading) the DPF system rarely has problems. Too many folks 'baby' their engine... this is what leads to problems with DPF plugging up.

The bigger problems arise with cooled-EGR systems. The exhaust gasses are not only recirculated into the intake manifold... but they are watercooled using the engine-cooling-system. Just like condensation on the outside of a chilled beverage... the INSIDE of the cooled-EGR system builds up layers of soot. After awhile, it gets completely plugged up. The entire top end of the engine may need to be torn apart to access and clean it out.

 

[Borane4]

I dont understand the environmental benefit of DPF. Diesel particulate is solid carbon particles that are too big to stay suspended in the air for very long. Thats why you can see them. They quickly drop to the ground and effectively capture the carbon from the fuel in a form that will not contribute to CO2 warming...ever. I guess that in a highly urban area, soot can be a problem contributing to filthy streets, but tractors are rarely used in cites. I guess its like the fable that electric cars are more environmental, just dont look into the mining that is required for the batteries.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

the soot never gets to the ground in a big city.. it floats around and around, sticking onto every windshield , and then destroys the wiperblades when you go to clean your windshield.....