What Government Mandates Save Lives?

DustyRusty

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In the COVID-19 thread, someone mentioned that seat belt use can lead to death. If you care to believe the statistics that the government puts out, it indicates that seat belts save more lives than they kill.
Now for my question, and this is directed more to our neighbors to the North (Canada), do daytime driving lights save lives or not? The US automobile manufacturers at one time in the past made it mandatory that they stay lit in the daytime unless you pushed a particular button a bunch of times after starting the car, and when you shut the car off, it reset and you had to do it all over again the next time you started the car. Since that time, the US automobile manufacturers have backed away from this policy. Since it is mandatory in Canada, do daytime running lights save lives? Please present your opinion and your proof if you have it handy. thanks
 

85Hokie

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While you are touching on the subject of seat belts....... I know a lot of "old" people that say it does more hard than good.

I agree - flying through a windshield, you can never remember the pain!!!! Like motorcyclist that dont want to wear a helmet......

I have worn a seat belt for 30 years - while not a seat beat nazi - if you aint wearing it next to me driving, you gotta get out. I dont want to hear the ding ding ding :p

Lights on have to save someone sometime - I think it is stupid NOT to have them on. In this state, IF RAINING - you must turn them on, lots of people dont and with a dark colored car it is hard as hell to see the car without lights on!!!
 
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jimh406

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It's almost impossible to prove that something saves lives. That is, nothing happens in a vacuum. If the number of wrecks decrease was it because of the lights, or because people have newer cars?

Fwiw, I wear a seat belt. It seems like having something to keep you from being thrown from the vehicle makes sense.

Some of my vehicles have daytime running lights and some don't. Back years ago, I borrowed my Dad's F100. I had the lights on because it was raining out on the other side of town. In that area, it was common to turn lights on when it was raining. I drove across town doing the 30 MPH speed limit. A guy pulled out right into the truck between the front fender and door. My point, the lights didn't help. He still drove right into the side or a full-size pickup with. camper cover and lights on.

That being said, I alway turn the lights on when I drive my lowered convertible dark grey Mustang. It's pretty hard to see, otherwise. Maybe it helps ... maybe it doesn't.
 
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GSD-Keegan

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Im Canuck. I have no proof Dusty. Just driving experience. For me DRL, are an asset. A bright white light from an oncoming vehicle is definitely more visible during daytime hours and cloudy daytime conditions. And it is really noticeable, in a negative way when I see a vehicle being operated without DRL. LIKE, crap, hard to see that guy! I think it is a must for our motorcyclists to have DRL.
IT is my understanding that most people have a strong eye and a weak eye. Let’s say my strong eye is on the right side. I’m stopped at an intersection looking for traffic and I turn my head and look right. My strong right eye views the oncoming roadway with no traffic coming. I turn my head to look left for oncoming traffic. My weaker left eye sees no oncoming traffic, HOWEVER, maybe I didnt turn my head far enough to the left for my stronger right eye to focus and register on that on coming motorcyclists. A bright light might just help. How many times have you heard or maybe experienced yourself that “ I looked and didn’t see him,“ or it, or whatever. Maybe some did actually look, but the weaker eye focused, and obviously the other guy WAS THERE, because a collision occurred.

Now, having said all that, I did notice an issue with DRL back at their inceptio, but I have noticed auto manufacturers have made improvement. Back a few years, when waiting to make the dreaded left turn against oncoming traffic at an intersection, I found it very difficult to see the turn signals on the front of oncoming cars because of the bright DRL. SO, for the past few years, auto manufacturers have once again, modified the electronics with the DRL.
Vehicles here in Canada with the DRL activated, have a feature where a DRL will be disabled when the turn signal is activated. When one activates the left turn signal, the front left DRL will turn off, which makes the front left signal more visible. Same with the right of course.

wow, I got rambling there
now if we can only get the beemer drivers to use their turn signals…lol
 
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D2Cat

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While you are touching on the subject of seat belts....... I know a lot of "old" people that say it does more hard than good.

I agree - flying through a windshield, you can never remember the pain!!!! Like motorcyclist that dont want to wear a helmet......

I have worn a seat belt for 30 years - while not a seat beat nazi - if you aint wearing it next to me driving, you gotta get out. I dont want to hear the ding ding ding :p

Lights on have to save someone sometime - I think it is stupid NOT to have them on. In this state, IF RAINING - you must turn them on, lots of people dont and with a dark colored car it is hard as hell to see the car without lights on!!!
Not sure in your state, but here the rule is if you windshield wipers are on then the lights are required. Trooper are usually quite lenient on enforcement.
 
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dlsmith

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Just a day ago, an 18 year old fellow ran off the Toll Road, went through a fence, went airborne, hit a tree and was ejected. As sad a tale as that is, fortunately his choice to not use a seat belt, drink and drive and use drugs won't be inherited by any children.
When I was 18, I had a tire fail on the rear of my 1966 Impala. I went off the road and rolled it twice. (No I wasn't speeding or driving recklessly.) Fortunately I wasn't ejected and I ended up in the rear seat, albeit with a lot of bumos and bruises, serious lacerations to my scalp ( Over 100 stiches worth. ) and a compression fracture of a vertebra. After that, I never rode in a vehicle with seat belts without using them, I just feel really vulnerable and uncomfortable otherwise.
 

GrizBota

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Just as a seat belt can mitigate the severity of injury if an accident were to occur, being more visible (via DRL) can decrease the likelihood of being in an accident, were the accident be related to not seeing the front of the car.

An example. At dusk some folks elect to not turn on any lights until it is completely dark and they need them to be able to see the road. Other folks elect to turn on the headlights or use the “auto” position on the light stalk and have headlights on at dusk, before it is completely dark. Which one would you rather your child (or grandparents) attempt to make a left turn in front of at dusk? Probably the car with their lights on at dusk as they are easier to detect and confirm.
 

DaveFromMi

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I read an insurance company report several years ago studying daytime running lights. Their study could not find any benefit.
FWIW, GM developed DRLs and tried to lobby congress to make them mandatory; i.e., large royalty payments since GM owned the patents.
 

Trimley

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I'm Biased. I turn on my headlights when 90% or so have theirs on. Traffic dependent, I don't usually use my blinkers in town or on the highway. I also drive at or slightly above the speed the flow of traffic is moving.

At night, when driving the 18 miles of highway nearest my home, if a full moon and there is no traffic, all my lights are off. Posted speed is 60mph...I don't go that fast.

I also drive a black on black on black truck.
 
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GrizBota

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I'm Biased. I turn on my headlights when 90% or so have theirs on. Traffic dependent, I don't usually use my blinkers in town or on the highway. I also drive at or slightly above the speed the flow of traffic is moving.

At night, when driving the 18 miles of highway nearest my home, if a full moon and there is no traffic, all my lights are off. Posted speed is 60mph...I don't go that fast.

I also drive a black on black on black truck.
Well I’m not going to say your driving choices are good ones. Best of luck with all that continuing to working out for you and those you share the road with.
 
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will721

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On driving lights, doesn't matter. If someone is distracted while driving, just because you add a few lights I don't think it would make any significant difference. For example, in my younger days I was more of an adrenaline junkie than a cruiser when it came to motorcycles and rode one of those fancy crotch rockets the old timers hate so much. I'd heard the same old timers mention how people don't see motorcycles of course and didn't believe it. Well not long after I got my license and a ton of close calls with other traffic (including 1 wreck) I went from offensive to defensive, especially at night time. It was so much worse at night time and it was BAD during the day. I started off upgrading lights to LEDs, to try and make the bike brighter. Then ended up covering the whole bike in underglow to make it stand out even more. Never made a difference. You can have bright flashing lights and a billboard on your back saying "I'M HERE!", but if someone on their phone texting, dropped something on the floor, or just plain zoned out; it's a waste of time.

As far as seatbelts are concerned I have experience in that department. My dad was a firefighter and brought up the subject a few times how it seemed to be 50/50 in a wreck bad enough where a seat belt would save a life. My cousin was sitting in the back seat of a brand new Lexus SUV a few years ago when it was in a wreck. Not too terrible, a driver hit the side going roughly 30mph. Lexus of course had a 5 star safety rating. The seat belt caused internal bleeding after the accident. Several organs hurt pretty good and a ruptured spleen. He was in the hospital for over a month and spent the next year in and out of it. Unfortunately he will never be the same.

The thing about government regulations is, they don't tend to be effective. Because when it comes to the vast majority of the laws they pass, it does nothing to solve the cause of a problem, but to reduce the effects or damages that problem has on the back end. People in power tend not to be very smart, so when you have a complicated issue with a cause that cannot properly be addressed they pass rules and regulations just to make themselves feel better. Usually without even educating themselves on the topic which they are trying to regulate. It's the same across many industries; from energy generation, automotive safety, gun laws, healthcare, or otherwise.

Speaking of energy generation, just look at their regulations there. Politicians decided that we needed cleaner more environmentally friendly energy generation. So they decided we need windmills. Winds free, doesn't burn anything, its clean. Except they destroy local bird populations. Due to unreliable power generation you still have to have the old methods of generation to make up for calm days. The construction and transport of all the parts, and replacement parts like the blades that require constant replacement kinda negates the whole point of reduced emissions. Then the giant landfills that we have to bury the old blades in...

If government regulations were actually well thought out and researched, targeting the cause of an issue in the country rather than targeting the effects of the issue we'd live in a completely different world. We'd likely be using entirely nuclear power, health insurance companies would be out of business, mental help institutions would be built, cars would likely be more designed like race cars for safety, taxes would probably be considerably reduced...
 
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mikester

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In the COVID-19 thread, someone mentioned that seat belt use can lead to death. If you care to believe the statistics that the government puts out, it indicates that seat belts save more lives than they kill.
Now for my question, and this is directed more to our neighbors to the North (Canada), do daytime driving lights save lives or not? The US automobile manufacturers at one time in the past made it mandatory that they stay lit in the daytime unless you pushed a particular button a bunch of times after starting the car, and when you shut the car off, it reset and you had to do it all over again the next time you started the car. Since that time, the US automobile manufacturers have backed away from this policy. Since it is mandatory in Canada, do daytime running lights save lives? Please present your opinion and your proof if you have it handy. thanks
No proof. I feel that DRL cars ARE easier to notice in the daytime.

So much so that I'm now that ahole on the motorcycle driving with high beams on during the day. Too many oblivious drivers out there IMHO.

One negative to DRL is that some drivers are oblivious to having a light switch and drive around without marker or dashboard lights at night.

Personally I think car manufacturers should be required to install automatic light switches on all cars to turn on all car lights at night.
 

fried1765

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Im Canuck. I have no proof Dusty. Just driving experience. For me DRL, are an asset. A bright white light from an oncoming vehicle is definitely more visible during daytime hours and cloudy daytime conditions. And it is really noticeable, in a negative way when I see a vehicle being operated without DRL. LIKE, crap, hard to see that guy! I think it is a must for our motorcyclists to have DRL.
IT is my understanding that most people have a strong eye and a weak eye. Let’s say my strong eye is on the right side. I’m stopped at an intersection looking for traffic and I turn my head and look right. My strong right eye views the oncoming roadway with no traffic coming. I turn my head to look left for oncoming traffic. My weaker left eye sees no oncoming traffic, HOWEVER, maybe I didnt turn my head far enough to the left for my stronger right eye to focus and register on that on coming motorcyclists. A bright light might just help. How many times have you heard or maybe experienced yourself that “ I looked and didn’t see him,“ or it, or whatever. Maybe some did actually look, but the weaker eye focused, and obviously the other guy WAS THERE, because a collision occurred.

Now, having said all that, I did notice an issue with DRL back at their inceptio, but I have noticed auto manufacturers have made improvement. Back a few years, when waiting to make the dreaded left turn against oncoming traffic at an intersection, I found it very difficult to see the turn signals on the front of oncoming cars because of the bright DRL. SO, for the past few years, auto manufacturers have once again, modified the electronics with the DRL.
Vehicles here in Canada with the DRL activated, have a feature where a DRL will be disabled when the turn signal is activated. When one activates the left turn signal, the front left DRL will turn off, which makes the front left signal more visible. Same with the right of course.

wow, I got rambling there
now if we can only get the beemer drivers to use their turn signals…lol
I have been told that "beemers" have VERY small directional flasher fluid reservoirs.;)
Thus, their flasher fluid reservoirs are often empty.
 
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Bmyers

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Do seatbelts save a life? Maybe. As pointed out there are lots of factors that come into play.

The reality is that the seatbelt is one part of a multipart system that has been developed to make the interior of your vehicle safer.

The seatbelt is an essential part of the system, but many people do not wear the seatbelt correctly. Using a safety device incorrectly can lead to additional injuries.

The airbags, the crumble zones, and the seatbelt are all parts of the system designed to protect you. Have they improved over the years? Yes. I have seen people survive wrecks that early in my career would have killed them. The vehicles being designed safer is a large contributing factor to this.

Have I seen seatbelts cause injuries? Yes, when not worn properly they can be dangerous.

Yes, I do wear my seatbelt religiously.

As far as daytime running lights, I can't say if they add value or not. Where they are probably most helpful is that they are on when others fail to turn on their lights such as dusk/dawn and low light conditions as storms. Yet, that is just my two cents, I don't have proof for or against DRL.
 

skeets

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We have had daylight running lights on bike for ever it seems,, and let me tell you,, it makes no difference at all,,, every cager says the same thing, I didnt see him/her
 
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Trimley

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I sat my keyster on road bikes for many years. People just don't pay attention. Since smartphones, people who cant leave the GD things alone when driving, are more dumb...and everyone is at risk.
 
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William1

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DRL only have an effect on the people texting, drinking a latte ad cruising the internet. The sight of car headlights after this fool crossed the double yellow looking for an emoji might make a difference. I've found them to be annoying, but then, I do look at where I am going and at all possible hazards.
Seat belts work. Get rid of air bags and ABS as well as most driver assist. They just dumb it down and provide a false sense of security and an excuse to not pay attention.
 

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We’ve discovered that, at night, if a deer is running into our line-of-travel….and we momentarily turn the headlights OFF…then back ON…. the deer immediately stops and turns away. We’ve avoided a number of deer that way. (I discovered this landing my airplane out here on the ranch at night. When I landed with the landing lights ON…the herd continues to run toward the illuminated area… and if I MOMentarily turn them OFF…then back ON…they seem to realize the lit area is not reliable and they either STOP…or more often, turn around and return to where they came from. It only takes a Moment of OFF then ON to accomplish this.)

The same thing occurs on our back-country central Texas roads….the deer are numerous and we’ve killed a dozen or more for years ..until we discovered this. No more deer strikes in the last 15 years since we’ve done this.

PROBLEM: The wife’s new car can NOT turn the driving-lights Off. If we switch the headlights off at night…the driving lights remain ON. We expect to be killing deer again soon.
 
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armylifer

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I think that DRL help in many cases but obviously not all. There is a move that I learned in a motorcycle safety class about 37 years ago that helps make you more noticeable. it used to be called the SMIDSY move. SMIDSY means Sorry man I didn't see you.

Anyway, the SMIDSY move involves weaving slightly within your lane when you approach an uncontrolled intersection or driveway where you see a vehicle waiting to enter traffic. It is a proven safety move for motorcyclists. These day I have seen aftermarket headlight switches that make your headlight flash continuously. A couple of my friends that I ride with use those and they seem to help them get noticed too.

A version of that for cars and trucks could possible help by rapidly flashing your headlights as you approach an uncontrolled intersection or driveway that you feel may have some level of danger. It works for me. YEMV