Welding
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Captain13
Active member
Equipment
M7040 4WD ROPS, ZD28, Woods (84” box blade, 72” harrow, 48” pallet forks)
At a minimum, disconnect the battery and connect the welder ground as close to the weld as possible. That will reduce the possibility of taking out the tractor computer/electronics.
Gave a like...Except I doubt disconnecting the battery makes any difference if you follow Captain13's other advice.
BUT what he said cannot hurt for sure...myself I never disconnected the battery, but I do not have high end electronics on the tractors either...
Hmmmm. Let's see.....
The huge effort of disconnecting the battery ground....
vs.
The slight possibility of wiping out hundreds of dollars worth of electronics.
Yeah, sounds like a good bet.
Especially since, hey, somebody did it a few times and didn't have any problems.
Yeah, that's a good bet.
The huge effort of disconnecting the battery ground....
vs.
The slight possibility of wiping out hundreds of dollars worth of electronics.
Yeah, sounds like a good bet.
Especially since, hey, somebody did it a few times and didn't have any problems.
Yeah, that's a good bet.
GreensvilleJay
Well-known member
Equipment
BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
well, IF the electronics are designed and built properly nothing should happen.
Automotive electronics are not built to survive EMP, which is what welding can sometimes mimic.
But then, there is that huge effort to disconnect the battery to consider.
Reminds me of a debate on a chain saw forum years ago. Someone asked if everybody gives there gas can a quick swirl to ensure that the fuel and oil is well mixed, before filling a saw's tank. The oil can separate, and if you put straight gas, or nearly straight gas in a two stroke engine you will soon be looking an expensive rebuild.
I was one of them who said, "Of course I do. Why would you not?"
Seems some folks thought the huge effort of a quick flip of the wrist as you pick up the gas can (which is all it takes) was just waaay too much effort to even think about, especially since fuel and oil take a while to separate, so the chance of it being separated is low.
But then, there is that huge effort to disconnect the battery to consider.
Reminds me of a debate on a chain saw forum years ago. Someone asked if everybody gives there gas can a quick swirl to ensure that the fuel and oil is well mixed, before filling a saw's tank. The oil can separate, and if you put straight gas, or nearly straight gas in a two stroke engine you will soon be looking an expensive rebuild.
I was one of them who said, "Of course I do. Why would you not?"
Seems some folks thought the huge effort of a quick flip of the wrist as you pick up the gas can (which is all it takes) was just waaay too much effort to even think about, especially since fuel and oil take a while to separate, so the chance of it being separated is low.
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GreensvilleJay
Well-known member
Equipment
BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
You're right, they design/build them very.very cheaply consider the bottom line NOT what it's for, After all the owner can easily afford the jacked up price for a new 'computer'....
I’ll be willing to bet that Kubota did all the necessary welding PRIOR to installing the electronics on these tractors.
BTW, if you ever weld on an automobile/truck…. DISconnect the SRS/Airbag control module as well as BOTH battery terminals… It can ruin your day when you take your hood back off and discover all the air-bags have deployed.
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I'm not saying it is right, but if I was welding on an implement, and not the tractor, I would go through the trouble and disconnect the implement unless there was a reason it could not be disconnected.
I have welded on my rig a few times. Grind a good bare metal ground spot near your work area…close as possible. I disconnect the battery and weld away…never had any issue. As noted…cars/trucks and vehicle computers are a different issue.
how does disconnecting a battery reduce the chance of computer damage?
TheOldHokie
Well-known member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
L3901/LA525, B7200DT/B1630, G2160/RCK60, G2460/RCK60
I thought about this too. Not enough to reach a conclusion. BUT i think there is a remote possibility, if the welder is an AC welder.
The reason would be that given whatever the electrical situation was in a particular case, voltage developed while AC welding could end up either adding or subtracting from the voltage that the battery supplies to the system. So in the worst case during an AC half cycle, the system could experience an over voltage, while during the other half cycle, there would be an under voltage.
I have no clue if this is even realistic, but I do know that it is a possibility. My welding is all DC, and I have never had an issue. BUT I also never considered whether any DC voltage developed over the arc could add or subtract to battery voltage. OR EVEN IF THAT IS LIKELY (I am certain it is possible).
BUT if one is really interested and has the technical background or knowledge I guess he could do an analysis.
For me, I am not going to bother, as it has never been an issue. But certainly could be a possibility.
Glad I only have low tech tractors!
TheOldHokie
Well-known member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
L3901/LA525, B7200DT/B1630, G2160/RCK60, G2460/RCK60
Captain13
Active member
Equipment
M7040 4WD ROPS, ZD28, Woods (84” box blade, 72” harrow, 48” pallet forks)
Disconnect Negative Terminal When Welding
Last Updated 6/01/2021 Speculation runs rife regarding whether the negative terminal of a vehicle’s battery should be disconnected before welding on that vehicle. The reason to do it is that …
outbackjoe.com
Ignore the mention of mandates. It isn’t spam.
This link provides the reasoning for disconnecting the negative terminal. Also, a problem caused by not disconnecting might not immediately appear (alternator failure, electronic gauges, computer, etc) but can show up within days after an over voltage condition.
Also, close as possible means, if you are welding on the loader bucket or any implement don‘t clamp to the frame, clamp to the implement We had a tractor that had loader arm damage after welding was done on the bucket but the ground clamp was placed on the forward lard of the frame.
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There was no actual analysis.
The possible circuit is between the voltage developed by the current flowing in the weld circuit and whatever might be external to that voltage.
Might be nothing or might be something. Takes analysis to figure out and I am not interested in do that. Even is capable, but at this point in my life that might be questionable anyway.
BUT we cannot ignore the possibility unless we do analyze the particular situation...so does the possibility exist? YES. Is the possibility guaranteed? NO.
When a voltage that is not natural is introduced into a circuit it can have repercussions that are not accounted for in design.
More than this who can say?
Edit: By the way, the voltage developed will be a function of how close the welding ground connection is to the point the arc hits the steel. So getting the ground clamp of the welder as close as possible to the weld point decreases the voltage seen by whatever is connected to the electrical circuit external to the voltage developed when welding.
2nd edit? I personally do not worry about it. I just put the ground of the welder as close to the weld point as possible and feel comfortable. But for those who do not, no big deal to disconnect a battery right? Just have to lift one terminal connection...simple as that.
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GreensvilleJay
Well-known member
Equipment
BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
First it really doesn't matter if the 'ground' or 'hot' of the battery is disconnected, though from a safety viewpoint, removing the ground is preferable. If wrench slips and connect the ground of the battery to the chassis, no bad sparks.
You should of course have the welder clamp as close to where you're welding. This greatly reduces possible induced currents from doing damage. The voltages that welder produce depends on make/model/type and time of use. The latter is important. A good old buzzbox will have say 80 Volt AC 'open circuit' going down to maybe 25 volts AC during the actual welding. All manner of 'EMI' can be produced during the 'strike and arc' phase. This EMI may actually do the damage to the 'computer'. Similar to nearby lightning strikes BUT very easy and cheap to design/install protection. Induced currents can be challenging but generally not a problem as most welders clamp very close to the 'work area'.
It's the EMI factor that a lot of doctors recommend you stop welding if you get a pacemaker installed.
You should of course have the welder clamp as close to where you're welding. This greatly reduces possible induced currents from doing damage. The voltages that welder produce depends on make/model/type and time of use. The latter is important. A good old buzzbox will have say 80 Volt AC 'open circuit' going down to maybe 25 volts AC during the actual welding. All manner of 'EMI' can be produced during the 'strike and arc' phase. This EMI may actually do the damage to the 'computer'. Similar to nearby lightning strikes BUT very easy and cheap to design/install protection. Induced currents can be challenging but generally not a problem as most welders clamp very close to the 'work area'.
It's the EMI factor that a lot of doctors recommend you stop welding if you get a pacemaker installed.
Pau7220
Well-known member
Equipment
L3650 GST, Landpride TL250 FEL w/ Piranha, 6' King Kutter, GM1084R Finish
Had a close friend of mine kill his shiny new DBS Pulse Generator for his Parkinson’s. Doctor did tell him no welding but he only had to “tack in a couple patch panels”. Ugh…