Water Ballast in tubeless tires

ozzie

New member

Equipment
FEL
Nov 8, 2010
15
0
0
Australia
Hello All.
I would like to water ballast my Kubota L 4310 rear tires. They are Goodyear tubeless 21.5L-16.1SL tires. The temperature does not get below zero.
What is your opinion on using plain rainwater as ballast in tubeless tires? What about corrosion of the rims?

Thank you
ozzie.:)
 

eserv

Well-known member

Equipment
BX24, A1000 Kubota Generator
May 27, 2009
2,140
139
63
Hardisty, Alberta
There are many many tractors running around over the last 40 years with fluid in tubeless tires and we don't see a lot of failed rims from rust. I would recommend that you put tubes in them, but even if you didn't you wouldn't likely have any problems. Water will work fine if you are in no danger of freezing. A water calcium mix is quite a bit heavier though! The main advantage of fluid filled tires as opposed to other weight is the lowered center of gravity, a very important concern particularly with a loader tractor.
Ed
 

Kubota Newbie

Active member

Equipment
M4500, New Idea Cut-Ditioner, JD 14T Baler, IH "Plow Chief" plows, Oliver Rake
Dec 28, 2010
533
81
28
Mount Vernon, Ohio
Maybe calcium loaded rims don't rust in Canada, could be a border thing, don't know. But if there is any little leak they sure corrode like the dickens in Ohio. Can take you to about any tractor bone yard down here and show you piles of rims (well maybe not piles anymore, the scrap price is pretty good right now) but anyway, bunches of rims ruined from a tiny calcium chloride leak. Would never ever load any tire with anything without a tube, and would prefer not to load them at all. But that's just an old farm boy/shade tree mechanics opinion. BTW, Michelin (farm), Goodyear (farm), and Titan tire/wheel would prefer you didn't load them either.
Have had to work on loaded tires on farm tractors plenty, royal pain in the butt!
 

eserv

Well-known member

Equipment
BX24, A1000 Kubota Generator
May 27, 2009
2,140
139
63
Hardisty, Alberta
Oh I agree! They are a royal pain in the butt! But the fact remains there in no better place to put weight on a tractor from a purely practical point of view. windshield washer fluid might be a better option from a corrosion point of view, but you won't get near the weight that way. You can hang weights all over the tractor if you want but it'll never reach the performance of a calcium filled tire.
Things do corrode a lot more in some climates than they do here in Alberta too so that might be why I don't see many corroded rims. Honestly, I've worked on tractors over 40 years and have only replaced one rim because it was rusted.
Ed
 

Kubota Newbie

Active member

Equipment
M4500, New Idea Cut-Ditioner, JD 14T Baler, IH "Plow Chief" plows, Oliver Rake
Dec 28, 2010
533
81
28
Mount Vernon, Ohio
Heck, I'd move to Alberta if I thought i could get my vehicles to last longer!;)
Practicality for liquid ballast? Ok, I"ll buy that. Cheap and easy (till you have to repair a tire)
Performance? Nope!
Give me two identical tractors, both properly ballasted, one with liquid, and one with iron weights. The iron ballasted tractor will out pull the liquid ballasted tractor all day, every day, all year long and do it with less fuel!
Used to pull tractors a bunch years back and my brother and I had a rather light tractor. Why not load the tires to get it up a little closer to the minimum weight class and then fine tune it with the iron weights we thought? Not so many weights to handle that way. We had good balance, carried the front of the tractor just right, but the liquid ballasted tires NEVER came close to performing as well as properly placed iron.
Saw a study from Spain a while back (the E-U folks being environmentally conscious and all) they conducted a 3 year trial (mostly to look at tractor fuel consumption) and found that iron ballasted tractors consistently performed field work faster and with less fuel consumption than the same tractor with liquid ballast.

Liquid is cheap, and if you don't need the maximum performance from your tractor, or its tires, then it's fine (except that it's a headache to do tire repairs). For most guys that have these little utilities or mid-sizes and mostly mow grass, and maybe push a little snow it's probably fine. And it is better than no ballast at all if the tractor is under weighted for the job being done. BUT, if you're farming or having to make money with your tractor... well, you ought to look at iron ballast.
 

284 International

New member

Equipment
B6000 with FEL, assorted Yanmar machines
Mar 25, 2011
151
0
0
California, USA
Kubota Newbie, where can I read that article about cast wheel weights vs liquid ballasted tires? That sounds interesting, and makes some sense.
 

Kubota Newbie

Active member

Equipment
M4500, New Idea Cut-Ditioner, JD 14T Baler, IH "Plow Chief" plows, Oliver Rake
Dec 28, 2010
533
81
28
Mount Vernon, Ohio
Did you ever wish you'd bookmarked somehing before clicking on another link????
Anyway, all I can find now are the abstracts on the study (at least for free!). Somewhere I found the whole study free on-line the other day. Here is an abstract.

The effect of liquid ballast and tyre inflation pressure on tractor performance
Purchase
$ 31.50


References and further reading may be available for this article. To view references and further reading you must purchase this article.


João M. Serranoa, , , José O. Peçaa, J. Rafael Silvaa and Luís Márquezb

aUniversity of Évora, Engineering Department, ICAM, Núcleo da Mitra, Apartado 94, 7002-554 Évora, Portugal

bPolytechnic University of Madrid, Engineering Department, Madrid, Spain

Received 25 November 2007; revised 30 September 2008; accepted 6 October 2008. Available online 17 November 2008.

A three-year research project was carried out to study tractor-implement dynamics during tillage operations. Field tests with trailed disc harrows were carried out under real working conditions with in dry medium textured soils, and subject to primary and secondary tillage.

The specific objective of this study was to evaluate the effect of liquid ballast and tyre inflation pressure on tractor performance parameters. The tests were performed using two different static ballasts, with and without liquid tyre ballast, and three different inflation pressures: the inflation pressure specified by the tyre manufacturer (100 kPa in the front tyres and 70 kPa in the rear tyres); the inflation pressure specified by the tractor manufacturer (140 kPa in the tyres of both axles); and a typical inflation pressure used by majority of the farmers in the region (190 kPa in the tyres of both axles).

A four-wheel-drive, 59 kW (DIN), Massey-Ferguson 3060 Datatronic tractor and two trailed type medium-weight offset disc harrows, were used in the field tests. The instrumentation system to determine energy requirement and efficiency of the tractor-implement, included a portable computer based recording system which was placed in the tractor. The system was developed to record the information provided by the TPM “Datatronic”, as well as the information provided by a load cell based pull measuring system. The studied evaluation parameters were: slip, real distance, work-rate, overall energy efficiency and fuel consumption per hectare.

The results obtained showed that the use of liquid ballast in the tyres did not improve work-rate, and caused a 5%–10% increase in fuel consumption per hectare. To avoid soil compaction, and allow a more efficient general use of the tractor, the common and indiscriminate use of liquid ballast should be questioned.

It was also shown that, with regard to the tyre inflation pressure, there was no significant differences between the inflation pressure specified by the tractor manufacturer and that specified by the tyre manufacturer, either in work-rate or in fuel consumption per hectare. The use of higher tyre inflation pressures, showed a slight reduction (3%–5%) in work-rate and a large increase in fuel consumption per hectare (10%–25%), even in good traction conditions, shown by the interval of slip values (7%–15%). In these dry farming soils the above practises should be questioned.
 

ozzie

New member

Equipment
FEL
Nov 8, 2010
15
0
0
Australia
Hello Again. Thanks for all the answers. More confused than ever. It seems to be a yes and no case filling tubeless tires with liquid ballast or any at all. If you look at the size of the tires, it would be expensive to put tubes in plus the labour installation cost. I think I'll let it go for a while.

Ozzie.
 

Dan_R_42

Member

Equipment
B7100-D, w/ Sims Cab, B219 FEL, ARPS 70 Backhoe, Oversized R4 Tires, LX2610 Cab
Dec 1, 2010
447
3
18
Taunton, MA
Magnesium Cloride Ballast in tube tires

My 8 to 9 year old rims are to the point of no return. They were setup with tubes and Magnesium Cloride ballast, as it was not going to be as corrosive as the calcium cloride in my original rims. It appears that the magnesium was very corrosive too.

Now I'm replacing rims again and having my existing like new tires mounted to brand new rims. My question is: Should I even add ballast this time at all ???

My setup is a B7100-D with B219 Loader & ARPS 70 Backhoe. When Backhoe was added I had to add lots of extra weight to front and middle of the tractor to keep front wheels on the ground. Especially when trying to drive up the trailer ramps.

I'm most concerned with winter use clearing snow and keeping the traction. Looking for comments on using the rig with the weight of backhoe as my weight for traction.

With the corrosion the rims have now, I'm not feeling very comfortable using the tractor. My biggest fear is tearing the rims apart from spinout in mud or under torque. That could get ugly real fast...

Thanks, Dan
 

Attachments

eserv

Well-known member

Equipment
BX24, A1000 Kubota Generator
May 27, 2009
2,140
139
63
Hardisty, Alberta
Except for the small amount of rust around the valve stem, all the corrosion I see on your rims is from the outside. The fluid being on the INSIDE I cannot see how the rust you are experiencing can be attributable to the magnesium chloride!
Ed
 

Dan_R_42

Member

Equipment
B7100-D, w/ Sims Cab, B219 FEL, ARPS 70 Backhoe, Oversized R4 Tires, LX2610 Cab
Dec 1, 2010
447
3
18
Taunton, MA
Hi Ed,

Thanks for the response. I hear what you are saying, BUT. The rims are rotting out from the inside out. The rust you are seeing is coming through from the inside at the weld points, rim edge and valve stem opening. The same thing that happened with my original rims (but they lasted 20 years). The AG tire rims also rotted out from the inside.

When I went from the AG tires to the R4 tires, front and rear 9 years ago, I replaced all 4 rims. The interesting thing is that the front rims still look like new, the rears don't. Both front and rear rims are stored in the same environment, so why should the rears look like they do, when the front look like when they were first installed?

My fear is that the level of corrosion is bad enough to actually tear the rim apart at the weld points.

I'm open to hearing other ideas. I’m just not buying into the rust being surface rust from the outside. It looks more like serious corrosion and delamination of the metal. Sorry if the photos don't show how severe the corrosion actually is.

Thanks, Dan
 

Attachments

Last edited:

Orangefox40

Member

Equipment
B7200HSD_FEL+Blade, 1986
Jan 2, 2010
48
0
6
Haliburton, Ontario, Canada
We know that calcium chloride is very corrosive and many people are looking at a more environmently friendly balast. Some will use recycled antifreeze but I have found the Windshield washer fluid is the most environmently friendly solution. It is inexpensive, easy to use and easy on the land and the hardware. It is also very readily available at most automotive and big box stores like Canadian Tire or Wallmart. I use it in my B7200.
Cheers,
Ron
 

284 International

New member

Equipment
B6000 with FEL, assorted Yanmar machines
Mar 25, 2011
151
0
0
California, USA
I put tubes into my tires, tubeless or not, so not all of this is from personal experience. However, filling non-tubed tires but leaving some of the rim uncovered (and thus exposed to oxygen in the air) by water is said to be a perfect recipe for rim corrosion. If you had filled them well over the rim, but had some ballast leak (say, around the valve stem...) and then topped off with air, you may have had the level go down to where the rim WAS exposed.

I'm fortunate to live in a place where regular water in tires will never freeze, so I don't need any salt additive. But, if I ever fill a non-tubed tire with water, just for the heck of it, I'm going to toss a water heater zinc anode into the bottom of the tire. I figure that will buy me, at the least, several years of corrosion free time no matter if it would eat the rims or not.

I'm not a fan of having a bunch of concentrated salt water in my tires that may leak into my garden or orchard if/when I get a puncture, so straight water seems preferable to me. Windshield washer fluid or antifreeze is toxic too. Rimguard, or beet juice, seems the most appealing option apart from straight water to me.

For my purposes, which are mostly loader work, pulling disks and plows, and things that require maximum traction, filled tires are a tremendous aid in efficiently using my machines. I completely believe that cast iron weights work better than the same weight of water in the tires, but I am unwilling to spend the money. It doesn't make economic sense to me, in my situation.

I'm not you, nor in your situation, and for what several sets of rims cost, you probably COULD buy a set of cast iron weights, and that wheel and weight set would outlive everyone on this board if not scrapped or abused.
 
Last edited:

Rotel1974

New member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
mx5100,FEL 72'' grapple,straight,tooth bucket THRD84,JD60tiller,
Aug 24, 2011
5
0
0
Nokomis,IL USA
Did you ever wish you'd bookmarked somehing before clicking on another link????
Anyway, all I can find now are the abstracts on the study (at least for free!). Somewhere I found the whole study free on-line the other day. Here is an abstract.

The effect of liquid ballast and tyre inflation pressure on tractor performance
Purchase
$ 31.50


References and further reading may be available for this article. To view references and further reading you must purchase this article.


João M. Serranoa, , , José O. Peçaa, J. Rafael Silvaa and Luís Márquezb

aUniversity of Évora, Engineering Department, ICAM, Núcleo da Mitra, Apartado 94, 7002-554 Évora, Portugal

bPolytechnic University of Madrid, Engineering Department, Madrid, Spain

Received 25 November 2007; revised 30 September 2008; accepted 6 October 2008. Available online 17 November 2008.

A three-year research project was carried out to study tractor-implement dynamics during tillage operations. Field tests with trailed disc harrows were carried out under real working conditions with in dry medium textured soils, and subject to primary and secondary tillage.

The specific objective of this study was to evaluate the effect of liquid ballast and tyre inflation pressure on tractor performance parameters. The tests were performed using two different static ballasts, with and without liquid tyre ballast, and three different inflation pressures: the inflation pressure specified by the tyre manufacturer (100 kPa in the front tyres and 70 kPa in the rear tyres); the inflation pressure specified by the tractor manufacturer (140 kPa in the tyres of both axles); and a typical inflation pressure used by majority of the farmers in the region (190 kPa in the tyres of both axles).

A four-wheel-drive, 59 kW (DIN), Massey-Ferguson 3060 Datatronic tractor and two trailed type medium-weight offset disc harrows, were used in the field tests. The instrumentation system to determine energy requirement and efficiency of the tractor-implement, included a portable computer based recording system which was placed in the tractor. The system was developed to record the information provided by the TPM “Datatronic”, as well as the information provided by a load cell based pull measuring system. The studied evaluation parameters were: slip, real distance, work-rate, overall energy efficiency and fuel consumption per hectare.

The results obtained showed that the use of liquid ballast in the tyres did not improve work-rate, and caused a 5%–10% increase in fuel consumption per hectare. To avoid soil compaction, and allow a more efficient general use of the tractor, the common and indiscriminate use of liquid ballast should be questioned.

It was also shown that, with regard to the tyre inflation pressure, there was no significant differences between the inflation pressure specified by the tractor manufacturer and that specified by the tyre manufacturer, either in work-rate or in fuel consumption per hectare. The use of higher tyre inflation pressures, showed a slight reduction (3%–5%) in work-rate and a large increase in fuel consumption per hectare (10%–25%), even in good traction conditions, shown by the interval of slip values (7%–15%). In these dry farming soils the above practises should be questioned.
The reason for more fuel consumtion is the fact you are always lifting the fluid inside the tire. As with iron weights the rim is balanced all the time.
 

skeets

Well-known member

Equipment
BX 2360 /B2601
Oct 2, 2009
14,618
3,447
113
SW Pa
Well I went a little different way,, I got the cheapest automotive antifreeze I could find figured out a 50/50 mix and filled the wheels/tires with that on tubless tires,, did that on the Cub and JD before the Butoa and never had a problem till it was time to change a tire but that wasnt a big deal either to drain the juice in to a drum and reuse it,,, just MHO you understand