Warming HST oil VS engine oil

[bird dogger]

It's not uncommon here in northern ND to have -35° F temps and below in the winter. We've already had a few in the -30°F range. And we're not talking about "wind chill"..... just actual temperature! In these cold temps without winter front covers on the tractor (to help keep the cold air inrush off the hydraulic oil cooling coils out in front) even the SUDT2 oil thickens and I would steadily lose rpms on the blower/tractor. It definitely pays to warm up your tractor and then keep it warm during use!

Everybody's perception of cold can and does vary. When you've been outside working in -35°F temps in the morning and it's warmed up to +10°F in the afternoon .......you're ready to take off your jacket and put on sunscreen. And no need for mosquito repellant.

 

[foobert]

ps. Warmup chart

Thanks for posting the chart -- I'd forgotten that from my initial reading of the manual. BXxx80 manual has one added row:
Above 32F or 0C : At least 5 minutes


Can't say as I've followed that prefectly outside of wintertime ops; more like a minute of idle, and then light load activities till the temp gauge is registering something meaningful.

 

[RCW]

It's not uncommon here in northern ND to have -35° F temps and below in the winter. We've already had a few in the -30°F range. .......you're ready to take off your jacket and put on sunscreen. And no need for mosquito repellant.

-35F is cold! Been in it many times, but it is uncommon in my part of NYS.

I mentioned a while back my favorite wood cutting temp was ~32F, could cut in a T-shirt if sunny and no wind.

But in our environs we don't have to worry 'bout no 'gators or big/poisonous snakes....

 

[Dave_eng]

I came across this diesel burning cab heater which I wish I had when I was using my Nuffield 465 in the Canadian winter.

It could be a solution for current owners whose tractor cab heaters are not doing the job.

Amazon


Dave

 

[BobInSD]

Funny you mention that .......

My students often b*tch about how cold it is here in VA in the winter ........ I'll be a smartass and say, what is YOUR definition of cold? Floridian or Alaskain cold? Cause in the former, 50 F is cold, and in the latter -50 is cold!!!!

Getting back to the topic - if you have S-UDT2 in the hydraulics - it pours almost as good as water - so while a warm up is a great idea, DEPENDING on the "coldness' that will determine the length of warming.

After moving here, the first time I topped off a crankcase at -10 and saw how slow the oil globbed poured I became exceeding paranoid of starting any vehicle at -10 and especlially at -20. Luckily the sheds/barns tend stay about 10 degrees warmer than outside if there's any sun the previous day, and on the rare -30-35 day I just don't start stuff if it can be helped.

 

[TheOldHokie]

After moving here, the first time I topped off a crankcase at -10 and saw how slow the oil globbed poured I became exceeding paranoid of starting any vehicle at -10 and especlially at -20. Luckily the sheds/barns tend stay about 10 degrees warmer than outside if there's any sun the previous day, and on the rare -30-35 day I just don't start stuff if it can be helped.

I just looked up the pour point of Formula Shell 10W30 - it's -28F. You won't be pouring globbing it into anything at -30F. If its already in there and you managed to start the machine it would not run very long. BTDT.

Dan

 

[BobInSD]

I just looked up the pour point of Formula Shell 10W30 - it's -28F. You won't be pouring globbing it into anything at -30F. If its already in there and you managed to start the machine it would not run very long. BTDT.

Dan

If I need to drive at that I try to start the 5W20 car, not one of the trucks. My wife has a newer buggy that uses 0Wsumfin, but that one cost me enough I'll risk the 18 year old Honda instead. Normally that's just "hunker down and wait for spring" temps but starting stuff at -20 is not rare. Again, the hope is the shed/barn is only -10, which is springlike weather. (not really, -20 last night, +30 called for tomorrow)

 

[ItBmine]

Just as a point of interest John Deere offers a hydro oil heater. I had one installed on my 2032R before I got it along with a block heater. The hydro heater is under the PTO on the rear.

I liked that and always wished Kubota offered that. The Premium/Super UDT does flow good in cold temp, but it would be nice to just keep everything warm in the minus 40 before windchill we have been getting here. Global warming??? Send it my way.

 

[torch]

I use synthetic hydro oil with a very low pour point and have a block heater. Even so, when I start the tractor in -30 or -35° temps, just letting the clutch out noticeably loads the engine as the HST pump begins to circulate oil. I let it run at a fast idle at least until there is no change pressing/releasing the clutch. Probably 10 minutes or so at worst.

 

[Mark_BX25D]

There's different levels of winter, -20C and below is not "start it and use it" conditions.

Yep. People who haven't experienced that kind of cold often scoff at the precautions that are needed.

Very few of them ever get to find out how wrong they are.

I did most of my infantry time at Ft. Carson, CO. 6,000 feet elevation, right at the foot of the Rockies. We knew about cold.

Then they sent us up to some place north of Edmonton, Canada, for a month of training. Then we found out what cold is.

 

[IanB]

Yep. People who haven't experienced that kind of cold often scoff at the precautions that are needed.

Very few of them ever get to find out how wrong they are.

I did most of my infantry time at Ft. Carson, CO. 6,000 feet elevation, right at the foot of the Rockies. We knew about cold.

Then they sent us up to some place north of Edmonton, Canada, for a month of training. Then we found out what cold is.

Sounds like Cold Lake, AB? It's not just a clever name, lol.

 

[BobInSD]

Just as a point of interest John Deere offers a hydro oil heater. I had one installed on my 2032R before I got it along with a block heater. The hydro heater is under the PTO on the rear.

Maybe I'll try to retro-fit a generic oil pan heater to warm the HST. Up until now I've been running 60 year old gas tractors, figuring if they made it this long a little cold isn't going to hurt them (much). I don't want to me$$ up my Kubota.

 

[ezriderf6c]

I have a lot of different pieces of equipment (tractors, dump trucks excavators, wheel loaders, dozers (D7 and D4), track loaders and vehicles. ALL of them should be warmed up for a few minutes in cold weather (anything below 40F). The few minutes you lose will save you $$$ and time down the road.

 

[nbryan]

So I have kind of concluded that what I have been doing over the years is OK.

That is, warming up the engine, then running the tractors a bit in low range slowly for a while, to give the hydraulic system a bit of time to warm up...before actually doing any useful work...

Yup.

I also noted from someone here on OTT, that was setting the hand brake, shifting the pto to rear pto operation, and once engine started (when I'm starting it on a really cold day, engine plugged in) I engage the rear pto while it idles and warms a bit. That moves and warms tranny gears and fluid around, anyway.

But operating the loader or backhoe in real cold is always a slow start. The hydraulic fluid in the cylinders and lines will remain as cold as the ambient temps until they're SLOWLY moved through the system with operation.

A bit of driving to warm the hst fluid, then some slow hydraulic work to circulate the internally warmed fluid through the lines and cylinders.

Then give 'er.

 

[fried1765]

You could put a magnetic heater or a silicone heater under the transmission. Letting the PTO run while you are warming it up will also warm up the hydraulic/transmission fluid.

View attachment 73498

"device heats the oil quickly up to 194 degrees fahrenheit".
I say.....advertising BS !!!

"On a cold Winter day" a 250W rubber heating pad will not do a meaningful heating job, on oil in "10 or 15 minutes", that has been stuck on the pan of a cold soaked engine block.
A few hours, or overnight.......likely, but certainly not, "10 or 15 minutes".

 

[Mark_BX25D]

You could put a magnetic heater or a silicone heater under the transmission. Letting the PTO run while you are warming it up will also warm up the hydraulic/transmission fluid.

Some of those pan heaters have been known to cook the oil. Pay attention to the wattage, but pay closer attention to the temperature. If they don't say what the max temperature is, pass.

 

[BobInSD]

Some of those pan heaters have been known to cook the oil. Pay attention to the wattage, but pay closer attention to the temperature. If they don't say what the max temperature is, pass.

I took an opportunity* to crawl under my Kubota and look for flat spots to adhere an aftermarket heater. While looking at all of that metal I was thinking that the (cast?) tranny housing is a lot thicker than a sheet-metal oil pan on a car. I'd end up putting a lot more heat into the casing (with lots of surface area for it to bleed out) than into the oil. Does anybody have any feedback on how well this actually works with a generic NAPA stick on/magnetic heater?

+65 F in South Dakota in March. I'm finding something to do outside, whether it needs doing or not.

 

[85Hokie]

I took an opportunity* to crawl under my Kubota and look for flat spots to adhere an aftermarket heater. While looking at all of that metal I was thinking that the (cast?) tranny housing is a lot thicker than a sheet-metal oil pan on a car. I'd end up putting a lot more heat into the casing (with lots of surface area for it to bleed out) than into the oil. Does anybody have any feedback on how well this actually works with a generic NAPA stick on/magnetic heater?

+65 F in South Dakota in March. I'm finding something to do outside, whether it needs doing or not.

Heating the oil ... is fine - but it really does not help THAT much, true it is better than nothing..... but ....

HEATING the water and the water jackets will allow the engine to start and run MUCH better than heating the oil! The oil these days are so "thin" (good thing) that they flow easily in cold - but the engine block/heads and the rest are cold. So heating the water will eventually heat ALL those parts somewhat EVEN with the engine OFF. Convection is pure and simple - the heated water WILL rise and the cold water will lower, so if you get a block water heater OR a lower radiator water heater, you will find the tractor WILL start as if it is a balmy 65 degrees..........

AS for heating the hydraulic fluids ...... same as the engine oil - depending on what oil is in there, it too will work well in the cold.

A battery heated jacket is a good thing too.

 

[BobInSD]

I do have a block heater. I'm looking at the >30 minute warmup time Kubota reccomends for my hydraulic fluid in the winter and trying to alleviate that somewhat. Remember my temps are significantly below their "low" range.

 

[GeoHorn]

Some of those pan heaters have been known to cook the oil. Pay attention to the wattage, but pay closer attention to the temperature. If they don't say what the max temperature is, pass.

And don’t forget that most trannys and hyd systems utilize the transmission case to dissipate heat. Those glued-on silicone heating-pads behave as insulators in summertime.