Very simple 3-point question

[Randyj]

I have a 1988 B9200.

Does the tractor engine have to be running in order for the 3-point arms to drop down from full up position?

Vic?
Ed?
?

 

[ipz2222]

No, it does not. If it is not dropping, there is a flow control knob that controls how slow it drops. If it gets bumped to the off position, the 3 point will not go down. Mine is right in front of the seat.

 

[Randyj]

No, it does not. If it is not dropping, there is a flow control knob that controls how slow it drops. If it gets bumped to the off position, the 3 point will not go down. Mine is right in front of the seat.

The control lever is in the full "down" position.

The lowering speed adjustment knob (under the seat) is backed all the way out (counter clockwise).

I made both of these adjustments yesterday. To no avail.

I don't know what else to do.

I bought the tractor last year. It had a working loader & backhoe. I don't
think there has ever been a 3-point set-up on this. I bought the 3-point kit
and a grading scraper. Now I can't get the lifting arms to lower.

 

[kuboman]

Try putting some weight on it. Sometimes they will stick up. Make sure the flow control is open.

 

[Randyj]

Try putting some weight on it. Sometimes they will stick up. Make sure the flow control is open.

I'm 6' 2", weigh in at 260. This morning I was jumping on the arms. They wouldn't budge.

I just bought a new Land Pride Grading Scraper ( 437 lbs ). I don't know if
I might break some internal parts by forcing movement. I would have to lift
the grader with my hoist to hook up the arms. This is all new, I have to modify the connecting links in order to finish the hook-up. Just worried about causing internal damage.

 

[Sam427]

I'm 6' 2", weigh in at 260. This morning I was jumping on the arms. They wouldn't budge.

I just bought a new Land Pride Grading Scraper ( 437 lbs ). I don't know if
I might break some internal parts by forcing movement. I would have to lift
the grader with my hoist to hook up the arms. This is all new, I have to modify the connecting links in order to finish the hook-up. Just worried about causing internal damage.

You mention it had a backhoe, when you disconnect the backhoe, are there any lines that need to be placed on the connectors to allow fluid to flow through? Seems like that was mentioned on here once before, but I could be wrong.

 

[Randyj]

You mention it had a backhoe, when you disconnect the backhoe, are there any lines that need to be placed on the connectors to allow fluid to flow through? Seems like that was mentioned on here once before, but I could be wrong.

No. The backhoe is completley self contained. Has a subframe mount and
it's own pump, driven off the rear PTO.

 

[bruceatlam]

My 3 pt. once got stuck full up and wouldn't move. In my case, the rate valve was stuck not allowing any fluid to exit the cylinder -- I discovered this by lossening the bolts that mount the rate valve. Just as soon as I loosened them up, the valve opened and the hitch operation returned to normal. Hasn't stuck since then --- I have no idea what caused it to stick closed. I discovered this entirely by accident -- I was in the process of taking it all apart to figure out what the problem was ---- after I noticed the hitch drop, I just put everything back together. Try loosening those bolts to see if it won't solve your problem -- it's quick and easy to do.

 

[Randyj]

My 3 pt. once got stuck full up and wouldn't move. In my case, the rate valve was stuck not allowing any fluid to exit the cylinder -- I discovered this by lossening the bolts that mount the rate valve. Just as soon as I loosened them up, the valve opened and the hitch operation returned to normal. Hasn't stuck since then --- I have no idea what caused it to stick closed. I discovered this entirely by accident -- I was in the process of taking it all apart to figure out what the problem was ---- after I noticed the hitch drop, I just put everything back together. Try loosening those bolts to see if it won't solve your problem -- it's quick and easy to do.

I'll try that tomorrow, Bruce, thank you.

 

[Randyj]

It may actually be that a spool valve the lift/lower lever operates is frozen or rusted in place due to lack of use. You did mention that you didn't think the tractor ever had 3 point hitch arms on it, hence no need to operate that lever.

You may need to do a little disassembly to ensure that valve is freely operating and that there isn't a bunch of crud and rusty crap preventing the spoool from moving into it's 'downward' pressure release position.

Are you able to move the 3 point arms upward, and can you tell me if the hydraulic flow control valve located near the fuel filter is positioned 'in-line' with the steel hydraulic lines, or if the little valve handle is 90 degress to that line?

Hello Vic,

The 3-point arms are all the way up, but I can move them up another inch or so by hand.
I'm not sure what you mean by the flow control valve being located by the fuel filter ? Did you mean the hydraulic filter ? I don't know. I took an image of the control valve ( hoping you can see whatever my problem may be).

 

[Randyj]

Here is an image of the hydraulic outlet block.

The adjustment knob is ( and was ) turned all the way clockwise. The front
loader worked fine.

 

[Randyj]

I removed the control valve cover and can see the valve assembly. I tried to move it by hand. Won't budge. I don't want to force it with a tool and end up
breaking something. I'm thinking this should move in / out with a strong grip.

Sure could use some input on this. I'm kinda at a standstill. Anyone care to
offer some advice ?

 

[Randyj]

Randy, in the picture you attached of the hydraulic outlet block, you can see what looks like a hex nut, with a small metal dowel sticking out of iit's shaft, like a pointer. It's about mid picture.

Turn that nut, so the metal dowel is pointing toward the rear of the tractor. This will either open or close the flow diverter valve on the junction block diverting hydraulic oil pressure to the three point.

I see that the three point arms are jammed up real high, so you may want to disconnect the 3 point upper limit cut off control linkage, as it operates a bypass valve mechanism. Jammed up as high as it is, it may also prevent fluid from escaping or entering the 3 point cylinder because the hi-limit control valve is actuated.

Disconnect temporarily at the lift arm end, and then pull rearward on the linkage to manually bring the hi-limit bypass valve more into it's centre of operation.

.

Well, I finally got around to actually starting up my tractor, after months of down-time. What with all the restoration work.

I took the upper limit linkage off the lift arms, and positioned it at about the half way point. I then turned the diverter valve (on the hydraulic control block) all the way counter-clockwise against the split pin dowel. My WSM say's when ever NOT using a loader, to turn the DV all the way counter-clockwise. I put fresh diesel fuel in the fuel tank, activated the glow plugs,
and she fired right up. I let it run for warm-up about 10 minutes. 90 degrees out today. After the 10 minute warm-up I moved the positioning arm all the way forward (or down). Nothing happined. I have my new Land Pride Grading Scraper hanging off the 3-point in the raised position. 450 pounds. Nothing.
So I turned the diverter valve all the way clockwise. Tried to lower the GS again, to no avail.

What's next ? Am I missing something ? Do I now need to remove the control valve block assembly and all the valve's / poppet's / springs / etc?

I thought for sure, it was the diverter valve positioning.

I don't have my loader on (still needs cleaned up & re-painted), so I have the hydraulic hose coupled back to back feed the system.

 

[bruceatlam]

There's a valve under the front of your seat that regulates how fast the 3 pt lowers -- ie. regulates how fast hydraulic fluid can exit the cylinder that raises/lowers the rock shaft. This is the valve that I referred to earlier. What position is this valve in?? If it's fully closed, fluid can't get out. Maybe you mentioned this some time ago --- I didn't re-read the whole thread.

 

[Randyj]

There's a valve under the front of your seat that regulates how fast the 3 pt lowers -- ie. regulates how fast hydraulic fluid can exit the cylinder that raises/lowers the rock shaft. This is the valve that I referred to earlier. What position is this valve in?? If it's fully closed, fluid can't get out. Maybe you mentioned this some time ago --- I didn't re-read the whole thread.

Thanks for mentioning that valve, but, unfortunatley I've opened that all the way (turned counter-clockwise), to the fastest drop position.

 

[bruceatlam]

See post #8 in this thread --- I can't explain just how this valve can get "stuck" closed but I know it can happen. Have you tried just cracking the four bolts loose that mount the valve?? It may just help. That's all I had to do -----------

 

[Randyj]

I loosened all 3 bolts that hold the control valve assembly to the case. I then noticed the assembly had moved, and there was about 1/16" gap between the valve body & case. The height control lever was in the down position, and the knob under the seat was backed out all the way.

Nothing happined.

I still have my 450# Grading Scraper attached, and in the full "up" position.

I then went to the back of the tractor and "bounced" the back end up & down by pushing down on the scraper. I did this maybe 2 times, then the scraper dropped to the floor and I was sprayed with hydraulic fluid! I thought, "Great, it finally came down".

I then tightened the 3 bolts back up, and started the tractor. I let it warm up for about 10 minutes. Then, I moved the positioning lever to the "up" position. Nothing. So, although the arms finally came down, the 3-point is still dead in the water.

I guess my next action will be to remove pins from the scraper and see if the arms will go up without the 450#. Maybe it's a "pressure" issue?

Or maybe I'll have to remove the complete control block assembly & go thru it.

I sure am gettin' tired of this.

 

[Randyj]

Tonight I removed my grading scraper pins from the tractor's lifting arms. Started up the tractor for a 10 minute warm up. Then, I moved the position control arm to the up position, 2,000 RPM's, and checked the lifting speed adjustment knob under the seat was still backed out all the way for the fastest action.

Nothing. No lift.

Turned off the engine.

I could however lift up the tractor's lifting arms to "full up" position by hand. When I would let go, they would drop all the way down to the scraper pins.

So, I removed the seat. Removed all the bolts from the lifting cylinder cap, and then, removed the cylinder cap.

The cylinder wall looks like new. I can see the hone pattern. No rust. But it did have some dirty black colored hydraulic fluid in it when I pulled off the cap.

I wiped it all off, and tried to move the piston. It won't move by hand. I raised the lift arms, tied them off at full lift, and then tried again, to move the piston by hand. Nope. I had to gently tap it down, with a brass bar & hammer. Once I got the piston all the way down, I cleaned the cylinder wall and checked it for any damage, rust, etc. Looks very good. I pushed down on the lifting arms and the piston returned to the top of the cylinder.

I'd like to remove the piston, and check / clean the "o" ring & "backup" ring.
I don't know, but I'm thinking I should be able to at least move the piston a little, by pushing with my hand. There's nothing on the top of the piston to grab in order to remove it.

Is the piston to cylinder wall fit so tight when installed ( with o ring & backup ring ) that it can't be moved by hand ?

Anyone out there have some experience with this, that can please share some knowledge ?

 

[Randyj]

Update.........

After some thought on the matter, I decided to put the 3-point lifting piston assembly back together and remove the height control block.

When I removed the complete block assembly from the gearcase, one of the 2 "o" rings that seal the in & out port's to the gearcase fell onto my shop floor.
That o ring was split in two, and 3/4's of it was smashed completely flat. Which tells me that someone had been into that at some time in the past.

I took the whole valve assembly apart. The spool, and pushrod were "locked-up" and would not slide. I soaked everything and very carefully disassembled the complete control block. I then cleaned & inspected all the parts & then called my local Bota dealer and ordered all new o rings & gaskets.

I did however find 3 shims in the relief valve. My WSM calls for what looks like 1 shim. There is a listing for 3 sizes, 0.2mm,0.3mm, and 0.8mm. What I found inside was 3 of the same size. I measured them with my mic, and if I remember correctly, each one was .015" thick. I'm going to put all 3 right back in when I get my parts next week. Hopefully, I be able to use my grader next weekend.

 

[Randyj]

Final update.....

Got a call from my Bota dealer saying my 3 point control parts are in. So today I went for a bike ride & got my parts.

I guess I should have taken photo's of the whole process but I didn't. I had everthing laid out after disassembly & clean-up. I put all new O rings in the control block. Oiled all the poppet valves when re-assembling. Everything went back together without any problems.

When I was done, I started the engine for a warm-up, opened a beer, and when the beer was gone I moved the height control lever to the "up" position.
It worked ! The grading scraper came up !
Time for another beer !
Yippee ! I am sooooooooo happy !
I spent the afernoon learning how to use my new Land Pride Grading Scraper.
The drive going back to my shop looks better than it has in years. Why, it looks like I had fresh limestone delivered and spread out, but I didn't !
Yep, I am a very happy man !
Today was a good day !