Underloading of L-210 engine

[Jpatrick]

In other threads, the topic of underloading diesel engines has come up. Let me tell you my experience, which isn't much.


I have an L210, where I just installed a used engine. The tractor itself Hobbs meter read 267 hours when I got it, and based on the condition of the drag links, gearbox and appearance of the hourmeter itself, I have no reason to doubt it.


With the used engine, I've got no idea of how much it's been run but it did take some doing to get it going. I did notice some "slobber" in the exhaust ports, so it's pretty clear it didn't work too hard in its previous life.

At present, I need this tractor to haul a trailer which varies from 700lbs (unloaded) up to 3000 lbs (FULL load). At winter temps, the radiator gets warm, but never hot, and usually the lower radiator hose is just cold. The radiator is a thermosiphon unit, which is well sized for this 1.1 liter engine, and has no thermostat. There is no temp light or gauge on the panel. The "overheat" countermeasure is an overflow pipe with a steam whistle to alert the operator. This tractor is never, ever going to get hot in the winter, ever.

In light of this, with these light loads, what countermeasures could I take to get this engine to operate at more normal temperatures?

What comes to mind are these

1. block off radiator with cardboard or something to restrict air flow from fan.

2. Operate with lower coolant level instead of full radiator.

3. Operate at partial throttle, say 1800 rpm while under load instead of running it up to 2400 RPM or higher.

In the spring/summer months the tractor will get some quality time with a box blade, brushcutter, and rototiller, but I'd say that's around 50 hrs at most.

How long could I expect a cold blooded engine like this to last?

Any other thoughts on this situation?

 

[JerryMT]

In other threads, the topic of underloading diesel engines has come up. Let me tell you my experience, which isn't much.


I have an L210, where I just installed a used engine. The tractor itself Hobbs meter read 267 hours when I got it, and based on the condition of the drag links, gearbox and appearance of the hourmeter itself, I have no reason to doubt it.


With the used engine, I've got no idea of how much it's been run but it did take some doing to get it going. I did notice some "slobber" in the exhaust ports, so it's pretty clear it didn't work too hard in its previous life.

At present, I need this tractor to haul a trailer which varies from 700lbs (unloaded) up to 3000 lbs (FULL load). At winter temps, the radiator gets warm, but never hot, and usually the lower radiator hose is just cold. The radiator is a thermosiphon unit, which is well sized for this 1.1 liter engine, and has no thermostat. There is no temp light or gauge on the panel. The "overheat" countermeasure is an overflow pipe with a steam whistle to alert the operator. This tractor is never, ever going to get hot in the winter, ever.

In light of this, with these light loads, what countermeasures could I take to get this engine to operate at more normal temperatures?

What comes to mind are these

1. block off radiator with cardboard or something to restrict air flow from fan.

2. Operate with lower coolant level instead of full radiator.

3. Operate at partial throttle, say 1800 rpm while under load instead of running it up to 2400 RPM or higher.

In the spring/summer months the tractor will get some quality time with a box blade, brushcutter, and rototiller, but I'd say that's around 50 hrs at most.

How long could I expect a cold blooded engine like this to last?

Any other thoughts on this situation?

Diesel slobbers is a problem caused by short usage periods that don't allow the engine to come to operating temperature as well as long periods of idling.
Are you sure this engine does not have a thermostat because it should have one to allow the engine to come to operating temperature. Did the engine that you replaced have one? the purpose of the thermostat is to hold the engine coolant temperature within a certain rage for best performance.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I would't count on it being "slobber", on that engine it's more likely leaking injectors.
That was a very early model engine and it wasn't very refined, but it will do the job.

Because there is not a water pump, thermostat or temp gauge, I would avoid altering anything.
Just run it at good RPM's and it will be fine.

Jerry,
No those and may other early Kubota engines did not a water pump or thermostat.
They do as the OP said they themosiphon, that is they move water via heat exchange, and a thermostat is not needed as they only move the amount of water and heat they need to, automatically.

 

[JerryMT]

I would't count on it being "slobber", on that engine it's more likely leaking injectors.
That was a very early model engine and it wasn't very refined, but it will do the job.

Because there is not a water pump, thermostat or temp gauge, I would avoid altering anything.
Just run it at good RPM's and it will be fine.

Jerry,
No those and may other early Kubota engines did not a water pump or thermostat.
They do as the OP said they themosiphon, that is they move water via heat exchange, and a thermostat is not needed as they only move the amount of water and heat they need to, automatically.

Thanks for the info Wolfman. I can't believe any post WWII designed engine wouldn't have a water pump based cooling system. I can see using this type of engine cooling for a stationary, fixed load engine (irrigation pump, generator, etc). Just surprised that any "modern" engine on a tractor designed in the last 75 years would use this type of cooling.

Thanks for straightening me out.

Our M4500 is our first Kubota tractor and I have to say the layout of this machine and starting system, the PTO clutch and the gear shift pattern are very odd compared to our New Holland, Ford, and our former Ferguson TO-30. The ergonomics leave a lot to be desired compared to the American/British designs. Having said that the tractor performs very well. You just have to change your mind set when you use it.

 

[Jpatrick]

Thanks for your remarks, folks. I'm pretty sure these two cylinder engines are a Japanese copy of the John Deere designs, which also feature no thermostat, water pump, etc. I had no idea these engines were so cold blooded, but I'm sure the designers took this in to account.

Not been able to find anything reliable on what the TBO (time between overhauls) of this kind of diesel is, but I'm gonna just guess it's in the 1 to 2,000 hour range, maybe a little more.

What I want is a workhorse, and I'd be really glad to get around 1,000 hrs without any more trouble.

 

[Daren Todd]

My L1501 had some slobber when I got it. My father in law used the decompression lever to shut it down. Engine was also run for an undetermined amount of time with extremely low oil pressure due to a missing cam plug.

After I was given the tractor, I found the low oil pressure issue while fixing some wiring issues. One of the issues was a disconnected oil pressure sensor. After fixing the oil pressure issue I hooked up the brush hog, and then proceeded to work the snot out of the tractor running it under a good load for several hours. This took care of the slobber as well as cleaning the cobwebs out of the old girl

I guess my point is, that these engines are pretty sturdy. Take the tractor out, and run it under a good continuous load for a few hours. If the rings are good, then it should take care of the slobber.

 

[Jpatrick]

Since I posted this thread, I've had a chance to operate this tractor under a good load for several tasks, including box blade, brush hog, and rototiller. After around 70 hours of experience I found that early on I was getting a tell-tale scent of burning varnish whenever the engine was feeling it. I don't get that smell anymore, and the engine runs much better. No smoke or missing at all when I run it up, and it pops right off when I start it with enough glow plug.

Even after working the engine pretty hard, the lower radiator hose still never gets hot to the touch. The huge thermosiphon radiator just has a lots of reserve.

 

[mattwithcats]

I wrote a post on thermosiphon radiator upgrades.

An inline thermostat may be the way to go...

https://www.jegs.com/p/Meziere/Meziere-Inline-Thermostat-Housings/1503584/10002/-1

http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37479

 

[85Hokie]

As others have said ......

start it
warm it up a little
Place the throttle at 75-90% of WOT when you are doing WORK
and this is the real important one
NEVER look back!!!

The thermosiphon system dates back to the early 1800's - ol Thomas Fowler made it!!
And the system itself is perfect!

THE main reason we do not see it anymore, it that the human that uses it has become lazier and less of a mechanic!!! We humans now want every thing to work perfectly forever and pay little for it!

Back in the old days - the farmer, mechanic or whatever - knew that a machine need a little lovin every now and again! (keep parts clean and trouble free)

Without a water pump involved - you need ONE less part, one less thing to go wrong - and no water pump means NO thermostat - the engine itself KNOWS when to move the water and how fast!

Now - would I want a system that I have to keep an eye on? Well....I'll take a pump too....but IF you keep all the cooling parts "clean" and IF you have a radiator that is full of liquid, and IF you run the machine at the RPM the company that designed it said to run it at.....
there will be no problems at all!!!

Here is a B7100 engine with Thermosiphon system - just finished cutting grass at damn near WOT - she was good-n-hot!

First picture is temp at upper radiator neck......
Second picture is at lower radiator neck......

Dont let the 200+ F bother you - THAT IS WHAT an engine needs to get the "moisture" cooked out of the lubrication system.

The

 

[twomany]

I've got an Early Fordson Major , petrol engine.

Cooling is by impeller assisted thermo siphon. The water passages are cast iron, and they are very large.

Temperature control is assisted by a canvas screen or blind fitted in front of the radiator behind the grill. The temperature of the coolant is monitored by means of a 2 inch face calorimeter fitted to the upper radiator tank via a pipe plug tap in the iron casting.

With that blind, I can get pure water to boil even in winter while blowing snow.
I got tired of draining off the water after every use, so now I use antifreeze mix. It takes ten gallons! ;-)