Trying to understand specs

[awesome]

I'm currently thinking about getting a bigger tractor and I'm trying to understand the specs. I'm looking at lx2610, and l3902. I know they're very different but it's just to understand.

First thing I see is that the 3902 is much heavier. So to me it means the tractor is more stable when playing around with the backhoe. It's a big plus.

Both use the same backhoe. But I guess it wont be as stron on both tractors right?

The 3902's hydro pump is 6.3gpm whereas my b2601 is 8.3gpm. I dont understand this ... Wouldn't it mean my b2601 is stronger?

I get that the engine HP is directly linked to pto power. I dont care much. My b2601 has enough power for my snowblower use.

I'm just interested in a bigger backhoe basically. So would the lx2610 be a big upgrade over my b2601? Or maybe the l3902 is the real thing?

 

[Daferris]

Best suggestion is to go to a dealer and sit on and drive both around the lot. I got the LX2610 because it would run everything I need including the stump grinder. With the added bonus of not exhaust aftertreatment (DPF). But with the weight of the backhoe you might find it to be underpowered if you going up a hill. As to the hyd flow your including both the steering & implement flow in that 8.3gpm. The LX is around 5-5.5 gpm for the implement flow.

 

[Elliott in GA]

Before everyone starts telling you that you need an MX6000, why do you want a "bigger" tractor? What tasks require more capacity than your B2601?

Do you intend to keep your B2601?

Does your snow blower require a mid-PTO? The L series does not have a mid-PTO.

If the backhoes are the same for the LX2610 and L3902, then the capacity is the same for both in terms of force (just like loader lift and breakout). The L3902 is a larger, heavier machine, and that would make it somewhat more stable with the backhoe. Would you need or benefit from this small difference?

 

[GrizBota]

Volumetric flow rate (gmp) likely affects speed more so than force. I’m guessing strong means ability to create a larger force. Force would be the product of pressure and hydraulic ram piston surface area (for a given geometry, e.g. the same backhoe). Not sure if the operational hydraulic pressures of the two tractors are the same or not. I expect they are similar.

But the heck with an MX6000, you probably need an M7060. Just kidding. But if you really do need a larger L and a mid PTO, the Grand L series and another $10k or so will take care of you (might as well get the L6060).

 

[awesome]

I don't "need" anything. This tractor is a toy. It's not for work, I'm not on a farm. I'm just a guy who spends all his money on a tractor instead of a camper or a boat. So I would get an MX if I could. Why? Same reasons the other guy would buy a bigger boat if he had access to a bigger lake and bigger bank account.

Like I said in the first post, I'm plenty happy with my snowblower and the PTO (rear snow blower). I'm plenty happy with the bucket although larger would be nice so I can do jobs faster. I'd be happier with a bigger backhoe. with the BH70, I'm a bit limited with the stumps I can pull out. My neighbour came to help me pull a stump out 2w ago. Hi L4901 didn't even flinch while still at low RPM. I can't afford a big tractor like this though. That's why I'm looking at the 3902. But if the BH77 will deliver the same power on the LX2601 and L3902, then I'd go with the LX.

 

[DustyRusty]

Equipment is expensive, and if you don't have enough use for it regularly, it might be more cost-effective to pay someone to do the occasional job that you are considering the larger tractor for. I had a lot of brush to chip, so I bought a chipper. That was 3 years ago, and the chipper hasn't been used for the last 2 years, except for a friend who borrowed it for a month last spring. I should have just rented one for a week rather than buying one, however, at that time I had planned on doing a lot more chipping. Unfortunately, old age crept up on me and messed up my plans.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

My BH77 can throw the ass end of my 2501 pretty good, so I'm thinking the heavier tractor would be beneficial in regard to BH "performance".

I've never looked at an LX. Does the the 2601 have the "regen" stuff?

I considered a 3901 too, but the emissions stuff was a major factor in my decision. I want to be able to "putz" around with an "old school diesel" when I'm outta warranty, and like you it's a toy for me.

Whichever way you go, get a ripper tooth for stumps. It makes a huge difference.

Paul

 

[fried1765]

My BH77 can throw the ass end of my 2501 pretty good, so I'm thinking the heavier tractor would be beneficial in regard to BH "performance".

I've never looked at an LX. Does the the 2601 have the "regen" stuff?

I considered a 3901 too, but the emissions stuff was a major factor in my decision. I want to be able to "putz" around with an "old school diesel" when I'm outta warranty, and like you it's a toy for me.

Whichever way you go, get a ripper tooth for stumps. It makes a huge difference.

Paul

+1 on the ripper tooth!

 

[awesome]

My BH77 can throw the ass end of my 2501 pretty good, so I'm thinking the heavier tractor would be beneficial in regard to BH "performance".

I've never looked at an LX. Does the the 2601 have the "regen" stuff?

I considered a 3901 too, but the emissions stuff was a major factor in my decision. I want to be able to "putz" around with an "old school diesel" when I'm outta warranty, and like you it's a toy for me.

Whichever way you go, get a ripper tooth for stumps. It makes a huge difference.

Paul

alright. Tell me more about the Regen.
I heard a lot of things about it but I'm not sure I understand. Why do people wanna avoid it as much as they can? Is it because it's something more than can break?

 

[dirtydeed]

The BH77 used on both the LX and the smaller L's would function the same (same digging power) but the additional 900-1000 lbs of the L would make it more stabile and has more weight for ground penetration. I find that the BH77 easily tosses around the back end of my B'50 due to lack of weight. The B'50 (and LX I would presume) has no issue hauling the hoe around in high gear (remember, the tractor is about 1000 lbs lighter than the small L).

I think only the larger L's (larger than L3901) get the BH92. Your current hoe isn't all that much smaller than the BH77, just has slightly less reach and does not have a full 180 degree swing.

 

[Elliott in GA]

alright. Tell me more about the Regen.
I heard a lot of things about it but I'm not sure I understand. Why do people wanna avoid it as much as they can? Is it because it's something more than can break?

The issues with Regen:

1) It adds several thousand dollars to the price of the tractor. If you do not need a 25+HP tractor, you are paying extra for HP that you do not need and a more complicated emissions system to handle the extra HP that you do not need. If you need the extra HP, then it is just an additional cost for what you need.

2) It is a more complex system; and therefore, there is more to go wrong. Plus, there will eventually be some additional costs associated with the particulate cannister having to be cleaned after thousands of hours of use.

 

[fried1765]

alright. Tell me more about the Regen.
I heard a lot of things about it but I'm not sure I understand. Why do people wanna avoid it as much as they can? Is it because it's something more than can break?

This is MY opinion only!

Ten years from now, you decide to sell your Regen tractor to upgrade, to the latest and greatest.
By then, Regen will likely have become a thoroughly outdated (as well as hated) system.
Your Regen tractor resale value could possibly drop to the value of yard art.

Ten years wouldn't matter much to me though, since I am nearly 83 now, and likely will not be able to even feed myself at 93!
And currently with 3,.......I ain't buyin no mo tractors!

 

[awesome]

I went to the dealer today and got a quote for an L2501. He basically said what you guys are saying, that more HP wont change much for the backhoe.
So now I just need to see how much I would get for the teade-in

 

[rc51stierhoff]

I think it really comes down to your expectations and ultimately what you want to do.

IMO if you want a noticeable difference double the weight of your current machine (at a minimum). Then you will have a noticeable difference. If not you may be pissing in the wind. As a percentage sure the LX more than the B, but in terms of capabilty it is sort of a negligible difference. It’s got nicer features for sure, but I don’t think it really does much more than what you have.

from a stability standpoint sure the width of the LX is much better than your B, but from a total package it really won’t lift much more if you break the couple hundred pounds of lift down into how many more blocks on a pallet it will lift.

it’s just my opinion, but ultimately it comes down to your expectations. If you were impressed by the L4701 or L49 or whatever your neighbor had, don’t be surprised if anything less doesnt impress. If you want the capability of the neighbor, it’s it’s time to pay the piper.

if more BH is all really want, consider selling your current BH (there is some value there) and put towards a used mini x. That might be best of both worlds paired with your current B. If you have both you can dig with the mini and put the spoils in the bucket of the B. That’s as good as shitting in tall cotton IMO. It’s great when I use the MX/BH92 paired with my B and the bucket / loader

Finally there is no shame in an MX. .
however, Personally a mini X would be better than a BH92 on the MX.

 

[awesome]

That’s as good as shitting in tall cotton IMO

That's good right?

 

[rc51stierhoff]

That's good right?

It is if you are out of paper.

 

[BruceP]

The 3902's hydro pump is 6.3gpm whereas my b2601 is 8.3gpm. I dont understand this ... Wouldn't it mean my b2601 is stronger?

NOPE!.... perhaps it is easier to think of FLOW -vs- PRESSURE to be similar to TORQUE -vs- RPM.

In general, LESS flow means more pressure. (stronger hydraulics)

Some folks have a NEED for more hydraulic flow because they wish to run attachments with hydraulic motors. (such as mower, baler, flail, chopper...etc )

 

[awesome]

Ten years from now, you decide to sell your Regen tractor to upgrade, to the latest and greatest.
By then, Regen will likely have become a thoroughly outdated (as well as hated) system.
Your Regen tractor resale value could possibly drop to the value of yard art.

This actually a very good point. Speculative, but valid.

@rc51stierhoff: so in your opinion, is the move from b2601 to l2502 significant enough in terms of the BH? The tractor is much heavier, the backhoe is more powerful, it has it's own seat, swivels 180 degrees. It sounds like a legit upgrade.

Another way to see it is: will this upgrade make me as happy as I was when going from from bx23s to b2601 ? That upgrade was worth the 10k I had to spend more.

 

[ve9aa]

I have NEVER used a backhoe......so.......grain of salt and all that ya understand fellas..

If you can't get any "more power" (rohrohroh in my best Tim-the-toolman-Taylor voice) from your machine but want a little more weight/stability, couldn't you fill the FEL bucket with rocks? (or put a skid of bricks on the pallet forks) ~1000lbs right?

(maybe it doesn't work like that and I am happy to be corrected.)

 

[will721]

NOPE!.... perhaps it is easier to think of FLOW -vs- PRESSURE to be similar to TORQUE -vs- RPM.

In general, LESS flow means more pressure. (stronger hydraulics)

Some folks have a NEED for more hydraulic flow because they wish to run attachments with hydraulic motors. (such as mower, baler, flail, chopper...etc )

This^

Pressure is the force exerted by a hydraulic cylinder, flow is how fast it does that movement. However the two numbers do not necessarily correlate in that fashion unless you are talking about the same size hydraulic pump. I.e. a larger pump can run the same psi as a smaller pump while maintaining a larger flow rate.

Regen isn't really anything to be afraid of anyway. The epa isn't going to go back on the regulation in the future. As a rule of thumb once the government takes ground on an issue it doesn't give it back. Dpf isn't going to go away unless something cleaner (possibly even less reliable) is replacing it. Also hp isn't necessarily a measure of a machines performance unless flow rate of hydraulics or pulling power are the consideration. Pulling larger implements that require the extra flow, or over terrain that requires extra power.

For your purpose its mainly the difference in weight in which an L will have the upper hand over the LX by a substantial margin at 1000lbs. However it has an equal difference in price. The only other considerations would be features as the lx is the more "premium" machine.