Trailering the Tractor

Mlarv

Active member

Equipment
BX23S
Jan 19, 2020
227
177
43
Crossville TN
Using your 2016 F150 3.5EB and 3.55 as an example (but don't know about cab or trim level)...

The tow rating is actually less when using a 5th wheel vs conventional according to the 2016 Ford towing guide. Depending on the trim level it can be as low as 6,600 lbs for a 5th wheel.



, no cargo, tongue load of 10-15%
(conventional trailer) or king pin weight of 15-25% (5th-wheel
trailer), and driver only (150 lbs.).
.[/B]
I agree I was just pointing out your tongue weight will be more with a king pin or 5th wheel then with a conventional bumper pull. With out knowing any specs on the trailer or truck it is going to be hard to figure this out. I see a lot of answers that are talking about a bumper pull or conventional pull and missed his point about the 5th wheel.

Trailer brakes are a must when pulling this much weight, along with making sure they are set correctly.

Have a great day
Mike
 

GeoHorn

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M4700DT, LA1002FEL, Ferguson5-8B Compactor-Roller, 10KDumpTrailer, RTV-X900
May 18, 2018
6,040
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Texas
Home Despot will NOT rent a dump trailer (<10K) to anyone with less than a 3/4 ton truck. That is why I bought my own 10K Dump Trailer to pull with my Ram 1500 (with small 4.7L V8) and it does fine.
But WARNING: The problem isn’t PULLING the trailer. The tricky-part is STOPPING. I don’t go over 60 mph and I give myself plenty of space for stopping, despite the fact the dump trailer has brakes on both axles, the truck needs sufficient load capacity to weigh sufficiently to adequately stop.
PS: my dump trailer is a bumper-pull and my truck has rear air-bags and is at it’s limit when I load that trailer up.
 

CapnDean

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L6060,ZD1211
Feb 22, 2018
184
3
18
Gulfport, MS USA
I think you might want to check your scale. 1800# on the tongue is a whole bunch. Most receiver hitches are rated at 500# max tongue weight. I have one that is rated for 1000# that I use on my dually and my Duramax 3/4 ton truck. I tow my L6060 with a front end loader & lane cutter attachment and a 6' John Deere MX6 bush hog on the back.
These are heavy implements and a heavy machine. My tongue weight is usually slightly less than 800#. 1800# would squat my C3500 dually. I wouldnt be afraid to tow 7000# total with an F-150 - - you just got to get your trailer balanced properly. Trailer Brakes make it much safer too. I do believe that most of a vehicle's tow rating comes from the vehicle weight and it's ability to manage a load rather than the horsepower and transmission ratio. My Jeep TJ will pull the house with it's creeper like gear ratio (4.88 axle).....But to STOP that house you can forget it.
 

troverman

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MX6000 HSTC; 2020 Kubota Z421KW-54 zero turn mower
Jun 9, 2015
1,188
275
83
NH
Good advice from Capn Dean.

I think 1800lbs tongue weight would just about lift the front end of an F-150 off the ground.

Gooseneck in a 1/2 ton is never a good idea.

OP, what did you not like about your 6.7L diesel? I've had several and they have been very good tow vehicles.
 

ccoon520

Active member

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L2501 w/ FEL
Apr 15, 2019
360
106
43
IA
Good advice from Capn Dean.

I think 1800lbs tongue weight would just about lift the front end of an F-150 off the ground.

Gooseneck in a 1/2 ton is never a good idea.

OP, what did you not like about your 6.7L diesel? I've had several and they have been very good tow vehicles.
He was having issues with the diesel getting stuck in soft soils when transporting the tractor.

OP, I'd look at your truck's tow rating. It should have a GCVW (Gross Combined Vehicle Weight) on one of the stickers on the inside of the driver side door. Then take your truck's curb weight, add your weight and the weight of any passengers and additional cargo and subtract it from your GCVW. That will get your maximum tow for your vehicles configuration. If your trailer and tractor's combined weight is under it then your vehicle is rated to tow it. From my F-150's manual it says the tongue weight should be about 10% of the towed capacity (which would max out as like 1300 lbs on a brand new F-150 with the options that get the max tow capacity).

But remember all of those numbers mean nothing if you are cocky or aren't comfortable/experienced with the load that you are towing behind the truck. If you are at/under those numbers, have a trailer that can handle the weight and have the ability to safely take the load down the road then have at it.

Also as a side note there are a bunch of towing forums on the interwebs that have people with a massive amount of experience towing all sorts of stuff. I'd suggest checking one of those out because while there are no doubt people on this forum that do Hot Shots for a living the density of towing knowledge will be much greater on one of those forums and someone will have first hand experience with the predicament you are in.
 

troverman

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MX6000 HSTC; 2020 Kubota Z421KW-54 zero turn mower
Jun 9, 2015
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I'm not sure you need to look past this forum...quite a few of us tow. I tow my tractors sometimes several times per week moving from job to job. I've towed with a variety of trucks, see pics below. Some were definitely better than others.
 

Attachments

troverman

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MX6000 HSTC; 2020 Kubota Z421KW-54 zero turn mower
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1,188
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In the night time pic, I was towing an 18-foot deck tandem axle equipment trailer with a GVWR of 16,200lbs loaded with a Kubota L4310 GST 4x4 tractor, loaded rears, and a 6-foot flail mower. The weight of the tractor, loader, and implement was approximately 6200lbs. The empty weight of the trailer was 3500lbs, giving a total towed load of 9800lbs (counting chains, binders, and equipment in the trailer toolbox).

This load was being pulled behind my 2018 Ford Raptor pickup. It is a good example for the OP to compare to. My Raptor is a base 800 crew model with a 1200lb payload capacity and a max tow rating of 8,000lbs. I used a Reese weight distributing hitch and balanced the load on the trailer. As you can see, this combination is sitting pretty level. It is somewhat over the Raptor's tow rating, and that is something to consider. My experience is that stability was just fine, braking was fine (using the Raptor's integrated trailer brake control, properly set up). Towing up long hills in the heat of summer could actually tax the Raptor's considerable power, however. My loads were getting heavier and hence the eventual decision to stop towing with this vehicle. Prior to using the Raptor, I'd only had gas and diesel Ford Super Duty trucks. Those are better tow vehicles for sure. Since then, I've had two RAM diesel trucks, which also tow very well.

Gooseneck trailers are heavier trailers with more weight on the pin to start with because of the actual gooseneck assembly. They are designed to put more weight right on the rear axle, providing a nicer towing experience. However, they are designed to leverage the much greater payload capacity of a heavy duty truck.

Conventional tow trailers should have about 10% of the total trailer loaded weight on the hitch. Gooseneck is 15% to perhaps 20%. Since a half-ton truck has much less payload to begin with, the whole gooseneck proposition becomes a loosing one.

A 7,000lb load is well within an F-150's capabilities. If the tongue weight is really 1800lbs, then you have to load too far forward. It sounds like it has to be in order to "fit" your equipment. Rather than buy a new truck, I'd but a longer trailer which can allow you to shift the load backwards.

I do agree a half ton gets stuck less easily than a heavy duty truck. You can mitigate that by installing better tires on the heavy duty truck to an extent. I'd prefer the bulk of the heavy duty truck for better towing control myself, and I do tow off-road myself. However, I stick to hard fire trails and avoid soft areas.
 

Alloy Snake

New member

Equipment
L4240,Lowry 6 foot mower,6 foot tiller
May 16, 2011
29
0
1
Jacksonville,FL
As stated in my original post I have been towing with an F250, The tractor is cabbed and has the L854 loader and water in the rear tires, Adding the implement its a heavy load-Looks like the real problem is the 20 foot trailer-It barely fits so no moving to reduce tongue weight. I wanted to go to a 150 if possible- But I am getting over that. Guess I have my eye on a new F250 with the 7.3. I was told I wouldn't have any trouble towing this set up with the F 150 I had at the time in 2009 by the tractor dealer-He delivered it to me with a F250 and said it was more than he thought . A 24 Foot trailer may be the answer if I can find one. Thanks for all the input.
 

GreensvilleJay

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BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
Apr 2, 2019
11,421
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Greensville,Ontario,Canada
A typical tandem axle, 5 bolt rims trailer, will have 3500# axles, so 7000# + 700# for the truck ( tongue).

You should ( NEED ) to take to a scale and weigh it ! Cab and loaded rears probably adds 1000# ? but you NEED to know. I'm thinking you've more than maxxed out the trailer rating.

I don't know what an F250 trailer setup is rated for, but trailer hitch should have the numbers but 10% of the weight should be on the tongue. A longe rtrialer will give you 'wiggle room' to properly 'balance' the load.

While an F150 will haul 7000# trailer you need to KNOW the rig and the road.
 

troverman

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MX6000 HSTC; 2020 Kubota Z421KW-54 zero turn mower
Jun 9, 2015
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A typical tandem axle, 5 bolt rims trailer, will have 3500# axles, so 7000# + 700# for the truck ( tongue).

You should ( NEED ) to take to a scale and weigh it ! Cab and loaded rears probably adds 1000# ? but you NEED to know. I'm thinking you've more than maxxed out the trailer rating.

I don't know what an F250 trailer setup is rated for, but trailer hitch should have the numbers but 10% of the weight should be on the tongue. A longe rtrialer will give you 'wiggle room' to properly 'balance' the load.

While an F150 will haul 7000# trailer you need to KNOW the rig and the road.
Just because the axles are only 3500lbs, doesn't mean the trailer is only 7000GVW. Many trailers are rated higher because they know some of the weight is carried by the truck via the hitch. For example, my Cam Superline 18' equipment trailer has two axles, 8-lug, 7k lbs each. yet the trailer has a GVW of 16,200lbs. That means 2200lbs is expected to be carried by the truck.

I think scaling is a good idea. But I also think a longer trailer is the best idea, maybe with a bit more GVWR room as well.
 

GreensvilleJay

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Equipment
BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
Apr 2, 2019
11,421
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113
Greensville,Ontario,Canada
re: ...Just because the axles are only 3500lbs, doesn't mean the trailer is only 7000GVW. Many trailers are rated higher because they know some of the weight is carried by the truck via the hitch

I'm only going by the OP F150 / trailer comments. All tandems I've seen/owned have 2 -5/16" A-couplers rated for 700#, so 7000+700= total 7700# = trailer weight + payload.

It may be a shocker to see what his combination really weighs in at though !
One real issue, not addressed, is the TIRES ! Typical 14 or 15" trailer tires are rated for about 1700# @50PSI, that's 'magically' close to the 3500#/axle numbers we see....
 

Magicman

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knotholesawmill.com
You can upgrade the tires which I did, but what about the rims. They have weight carrying ratings too. There is really no way to upgrade a trailer's carrying capacity without upgrading the trailer.
 

GreensvilleJay

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BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
Apr 2, 2019
11,421
4,908
113
Greensville,Ontario,Canada
re: ...There is really no way to upgrade a trailer's carrying capacity without upgrading the trailer.

sure there is..
1) install better axles....
2) replace springs...
3) upgrade tires..

rim capacity probably isn't an issue, though I'd check with mfr to get their certificate's data.

the basic trailer frame , if steel, can easily carry more weight, IF built from structural steel and not from 'rolled tin'.

Now it may not be cost effective to upgrade depending on cost of materials and your 'free' time. You can increase payload capacity by removing center section of decking,replcing steel ramps with aluminum, and other 'tricks'.
I 'shaved' almost 500# from a neighbour's trailer when I 'repurposed' it for him 8-10 years ago.
 

troverman

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Equipment
MX6000 HSTC; 2020 Kubota Z421KW-54 zero turn mower
Jun 9, 2015
1,188
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83
NH
Legally, the trailer can never weigh more than what the manufacturer's GVWR tag states. That's also what you are registering it for.

There is a difference between what the trailer can safely carry, especially with upgrades, but from a legal perspective it's what the tag says.

Some manufacturers will sell you a heavy duty trailer (let's say 15k GVW) and put a tag on it for 11,900lbs on it. That way, you can pull it with a dually and not legally need a CDL...plus you'll pay less in reg and insurance fees. Legally, you cannot carry as much payload on it, but you know you still have the beef if you need to occasionally overload it.
 

Tarmy

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L2800, BH76A, FEL,box scraper
Nov 17, 2009
462
363
63
Lake Almanor, Ca
Legally, the trailer can never weigh more than what the manufacturer's GVWR tag states. That's also what you are registering it for.

There is a difference between what the trailer can safely carry, especially with upgrades, but from a legal perspective it's what the tag says.

Some manufacturers will sell you a heavy duty trailer (let's say 15k GVW) and put a tag on it for 11,900lbs on it. That way, you can pull it with a dually and not legally need a CDL...plus you'll pay less in reg and insurance fees. Legally, you cannot carry as much payload on it, but you know you still have the beef if you need to occasionally overload it.
This is what I did. My dump trailer is a 14,400 rated trailer, tagged with a 9,990 sticker. I wanted the extra duty drop axles and comfort knowing I would never get near the limit. I bought upgraded radial tires too. No way I am risking my life or others for that matter over a few grand.