Top & Tilt (?) question

[random]

I THINK that's what I'm looking for: I want to replace the mechanical screwed top link with a hydraulic link so I can change implement angles quickly and easily.

What do I need already on the tractor to make that work? I have a backhoe, so there's hydraulic attachments at the rear. Can I hook into that or do I need something else?

 

[johnsayen]

I’m pretty sure you can get what’s called a hydraulic top link if you’re only looking to change the tilt. It would be controlled by a rear remote / hydraulic pair. Others will know much better than I.

 

[ayak]

I THINK that's what I'm looking for: I want to replace the mechanical screwed top link with a hydraulic link so I can change implement angles quickly and easily.

What do I need already on the tractor to make that work? I have a backhoe, so there's hydraulic attachments at the rear. Can I hook into that or do I need something else?

I started this process back in March and have just about everything you have listed (and also a third function valve for my grapple). You would want to get with Brian at FitRite would be my primary advice.

Fit Rite Hydraulics - fitritehydraulics.com

Manufacturers of tractor 3 point hitch top and tilt hydraulic kits, hydraulic top links and hydraulic side links.

www.fitritehydraulics.com

You’re going to be adding a lot more than you think, it’s just that you’ll be inserting the rear remote hardware (valve and two hoses per cylinder you’re wanting to add) into the overall flow path. Daveknowshow on YouTube has a really good introductory video to help you see how this all will play out.

 

[johnsayen]

I was under the impression a hydraulic top link only required one rear remote. How many does a top n tilt require?

 

[ctfjr]

I was under the impression a hydraulic top link only required one rear remote. How many does a top n tilt require?

2 - 1 for the top link, 1 for the tilt cylinder

 

[johnsayen]

2 - 1 for the top link, 1 for the tilt cylinder

Thanks. I’m probably confused. I thought the top link controlled the level of tilt? When I say tilt I mean the angle of the attachment forward/back in line with the tractor.

 

[clarksvilleal]

Thanks. I’m probably confused. I thought the top link controlled the level of tilt? When I say tilt I mean the angle of the attachment forward/back in line with the tractor.

In tractor lingo the "Top" in "Top and Tilt" refers to a hydraulic cylinder that replaces the mechanical top link and yes, enables you to tilt the implement forward and back. The "Tilt" refers to another hydraulic cylinder that replaces one of the 3PH lift rods that raise and lower the lift arms to which the implement is attached. The net effect of the tilt cylinder is to enable you to tilt the implement to either side, since the non-hydraulic lift rod will be fixed length during operation while the hydraulic tilt cylinder will shorten or lengthen as you control it, causing that end of the implement to raise or lower, respectively.

I have seen photos on tractorbynet of a Kioti tractor that actually has dual tilt cylinders, where both lift rods were replaced with hydraulic cylinders. That would give a greater dynamic range for the side-to-side tilt, but at a much higher cost.

 

[NCL4701]

Adding a hydraulic top link is pretty simple. You just need to get one with the correct pin size on the ends to fit your tractor (I believe yours would be a Category 1) and get the correct min/max length (your current top link should be instructive for those dimensions). You plug it in to a remote circuit and run it like any other implement cylinder.

There are two potentially more difficult things: 1) If you don’t have a hydraulic remote circuit to plug it into you need to install at least one. Some people seem to find that a reasonably easy job, others not so much. 2) Paying for it. Particularly if you have to add the hydraulic remotes, it can get painfully expensive. If you already have an available remote circuit (I don’t have a backhoe but seems like you’d have to have one left over after removing the BH) you should be able to pick up a top link for under $500. That could be from someone like FitRite who will probably assist with sizing and walk you through any questions you may have or from a commodity type supplier such as TSC or AgriSupply.

One additional thing you’ll have to decide is whether you want a top link with check valves or without. Some have check valves in the cylinder such that the cylinder is locked in position until you apply hydraulic pressure in one or the other direction. That can be helpful to override any leaky valve type issues the tractor may have which would allow creeping of the top link. But you can’t float a check valved top link. Ability to float requires connecting the top link to a hydraulic circuit with a float detent valve.

Personally, mine does not have the check valves and works just swell. I wanted the ability to float it but some may have no use for that.

Attached a couple of photos. I think you can see it’s really just a hydraulic cylinder hooked to a remote. The trick (if there is one) is sizing it right and enduring the pain of writing the check for it.

 

[johnsayen]

Adding a hydraulic top link is pretty simple. You just need to get one with the correct pin size on the ends to fit your tractor (I believe yours would be a Category 1) and get the correct min/max length (your current top link should be instructive for those dimensions). You plug it in to a remote circuit and run it like any other implement cylinder.

There are two potentially more difficult things: 1) If you don’t have a hydraulic remote circuit to plug it into you need to install at least one. Some people seem to find that a reasonably easy job, others not so much. 2) Paying for it. Particularly if you have to add the hydraulic remotes, it can get painfully expensive. If you already have an available remote circuit (I don’t have a backhoe but seems like you’d have to have one left over after removing the BH) you should be able to pick up a top link for under $500. That could be from someone like FitRite who will probably assist with sizing and walk you through any questions you may have or from a commodity type supplier such as TSC or AgriSupply.

One additional thing you’ll have to decide is whether you want a top link with check valves or without. Some have check valves in the cylinder such that the cylinder is locked in position until you apply hydraulic pressure in one or the other direction. That can be helpful to override any leaky valve type issues the tractor may have which would allow creeping of the top link. But you can’t float a check valved top link. Ability to float requires connecting the top link to a hydraulic circuit with a float detent valve.

Personally, mine does not have the check valves and works just swell. I wanted the ability to float it but some may have no use for that.

Attached a couple of photos. I think you can see it’s really just a hydraulic cylinder hooked to a remote. The trick (if there is one) is sizing it right and enduring the pain of writing the check for it.



View attachment 65831 View attachment 65833 View attachment 65834

This was super helpful thank you!

 

[johnsayen]

In tractor lingo the "Top" in "Top and Tilt" refers to a hydraulic cylinder that replaces the mechanical top link and yes, enables you to tilt the implement forward and back. The "Tilt" refers to another hydraulic cylinder that replaces one of the 3PH lift rods that raise and lower the lift arms to which the implement is attached. The net effect of the tilt cylinder is to enable you to tilt the implement to either side, since the non-hydraulic lift rod will be fixed length during operation while the hydraulic tilt cylinder will shorten or lengthen as you control it, causing that end of the implement to raise or lower, respectively.

I have seen photos on tractorbynet of a Kioti tractor that actually has dual tilt cylinders, where both lift rods were replaced with hydraulic cylinders. That would give a greater dynamic range for the side-to-side tilt, but at a much higher cost.

this makes sense, thank you!

 

[random]

In tractor lingo the "Top" in "Top and Tilt" refers to a hydraulic cylinder that replaces the mechanical top link and yes, enables you to tilt the implement forward and back. The "Tilt" refers to another hydraulic cylinder that replaces one of the 3PH lift rods that raise and lower the lift arms to which the implement is attached. The net effect of the tilt cylinder is to enable you to tilt the implement to either side, since the non-hydraulic lift rod will be fixed length during operation while the hydraulic tilt cylinder will shorten or lengthen as you control it, causing that end of the implement to raise or lower, respectively.

AH
Given that, at this point I only want the top link. How much does that change things?

 

[johnsayen]

AH
Given that, at this point I only want the top link. How much does that change things?

Pretty sure that’s as easy as having a single rear remote and then swapping your mechanical top link with the hydraulic one. Could be wrong.

 

[random]

Which goes back to: can I hook that in to the backhoe hydraulics then?

 

[ayak]

Which goes back to: can I hook that in to the backhoe hydraulics then?

On my 3301 with a backhoe, the backhoe (and its dedicated set of valves) simply is ‘inline’ (between the Rear Remote’s PB and the Hydraulic block of the tractor).

Inside the right fender is the place that Kubota mounts a valve stack—in your case it would be one remote valve and a block with a tank port and an inlet port for flow that comes from the FEL PB. It also has an outlet port (that is its Power Beyond) that sends flow to the inlet hose of the Backhoe. The Backhoe’s outlet hose returns flow to the PB port of the tractor’s hydraulic block.

So likely a cylinder, (4) new hoses, one valve, and perhaps that block if you go the Kubota route.

 

[TheOldHokie]

I THINK that's what I'm looking for: I want to replace the mechanical screwed top link with a hydraulic link so I can change implement angles quickly and easily.

What do I need already on the tractor to make that work? I have a backhoe, so there's hydraulic attachments at the rear. Can I hook into that or do I need something else?

I just added a single spool valve to my L3901. It is a temporary fix for the grapple but would be a good permanent fit for your top link. Plumbing it is very simple and you would simply need to run the outlets to the back rather than the front. I doubt there is much more than $200 in it and a heck of a lot less expensive than an OEM remote valve and outlets. If you wanted float it would add anothe $50-$75 to the cost of the valve.

I also have some custom designed rear outlet mounting panels coming that are going to be very affordable and neat looking. Not sure if they will work with a backhoe mounted on the rear. PM me and I will walk you through the details of adding the valve.

Dan