Tis the Season...

OldeEnglish

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B7100D, MMM, B205 Dozer Blade, woods m48, b2910
Jul 13, 2014
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Western, MA
Chill is in the air and the heating systems are starting to fire up. For me, this is the time when people are calling to have a new heating system installed. I always say to myself... "Where were you in July?"

I'm always on here asking stupid questions about my little tractor so I figured I would help out where I can and try to explain different heating systems and how they work. If anyone has any questions feel free to post them, I'll do my best to explain them. If there are any other heating pros out there feel free to chime in. My opinions are my own but have had the pleasure of working with a few excellent engineers. If anyone needs pictures to help describe how these different systems work I'll draw some up.


I'll start with the most common hydronic systems found today, the cast iron boiler with fin tube baseboard heat. These boilers are by far the most reliable heating unit ever made. They have simple construction and even simpler controls and work well with fin tube. Oil fired units need a yearly cleaning and gas fired units rarely do. Simple controls, they turn on and turn off, some may have a high fire option. The cast iron block acts as a DIRECT fired heat exchanger that your system water circulates through. Usually when the system is up to temp, the boiler will shut off but the pumps will continue to circulate water through the block and out to the fin tube until the thermostat is satisfied. Fact is you can't get anymore than 86% efficacy out of these boilers and that number is under perfect situations. Venting methods and fresh air makeup have a big effect on these numbers. If someone is telling you a higher number they are full of BS, average is around 83%.

You may also have cast iron base board or radiators (the best in my opinion) and the system works the same. The only difference is fin tube does not throw heat very well compared to cast iron. When the system shuts off, the fin tube cools in a few minutes. With cast iron baseboard or radiators the water and metal stays hot for a very long time. In most cases the temp will climb 1 or 2 deg before it starts going back down which increases the heating efficacy.


Today in our high tech world boilers have changed dramatically. They've gone from a large cast iron block to a heat exchanger half the size of a 5 gal pail that you can hang on a wall. They are computer controlled, modulate (throttle itself), read outside temps, condisate, vent with plastic pipe out a side wall, and have their own fresh air intake for combustion air. One of the biggest differences is that instead of circulating the system water through the boiler (Direct Heating), they inject the water to the system by a primary loop injection (indirect heating). The boiler has its own loop between the supply/return (primary loop) which T's into and injects into the secondary loop (your fin tube or what ever). As fancy as these things are they have had their fair share of problems over the years, most have seemed to have been worked out by now. It's kind of like the cars of today and the 60's, it's computerized.

I have a Weil McLain Ultra that is rated at 92% efficacy. That number basically represents the heat lost out of the exhaust vent. Some manufactures will advertise up to 97% but you must read the fine print. Unless you have radiant heat supplied by an indirect tank it will be more around the 92 range.

On my opinion, fin tube baseboard heat with these new boilers is practically useless. Remember, they heat indirectly compared to the old direct method and this has a big effect on how the boiler operates. The new boilers are only efficient when they have a 10 to 15 deg heat loss within your system (deltaT between supply and return temps). That is very hard to achieve with fin tube unless there is a mile of it. A low delta T will cause the boiler to rev and slow constantly or short cycle (not a good thing, puts too much premature wear on certain components).


Well this is a start.... I'll get more into Radiator Wall Panel, radiant heat, and forced hot air later on. I'll try to find some piping diagrams to help everyone understand how the primary and secondary loops work.
 

OldeEnglish

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B7100D, MMM, B205 Dozer Blade, woods m48, b2910
Jul 13, 2014
768
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Western, MA
Re: Tis the Season.

Here is a picture of what a typical wall hung unit looks like



Here is a picture of the different ways they can be vented



This is a piping diagram of a primary and secondary loop system. You can see where there are two loops tied together and is injected by the boiler circulator pump. In an old boiler the supply and return of the system would circulate through the boiler with only one loop.
 

skeets

Well-known member

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BX 2360 /B2601
Oct 2, 2009
14,618
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SW Pa
Very cool, no pun intended, Most folks, my self included take the heating systems for granted until something happens. The old boiler I had was like 3 days older than dirt big heavy cast iron thing sounded like a jet engine when it fired up. When I had it replaced the first thing the gay asked me is where are the guts, it was a converted coal furnace. He said if i had the guts that the new unit would hook right into the system. and I could burn coal wood or what ever and my heating bills would be like almost nada unless I let the fire die out then the gas boiler would take over. But I didn't have the guts for it..
Thanks for the heating incite :D
 

OldeEnglish

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Equipment
B7100D, MMM, B205 Dozer Blade, woods m48, b2910
Jul 13, 2014
768
7
0
Western, MA
Skeets,

Your absolutely right about people taking heating for granted. Most people in the northern states don't realize that we use our heating system 6 months out of the year.

These new boilers are whisper quiet compared to the old jet engines that rattle the China cabinet! Typically you need to be standing next to them and it's still hard to hear them run.

Too bad you don't have the guts for that old boiler, that could be very handy. I've seen a few coal stoves that could accept a coil to circulate water through. If anyone was to do that make sure there is a Pressure Relief Valve installed on the supply (hot water coming out of the boiler). It would have to circulate continuously and have the water stored in a supply tank, also would need its own pressure relief valve. Budarus used to make a wood/oil boiler that were very popular long ago. I don't know if they still do.... I'll have to check that out. Vieseman makes a nice indoor unit that burns anything, I'll post some info on it.

Pressure relief valves on devices that make or store hot water are VERY important. If they were to be plugged off or malfunction and not open during a heat or pressure overload, you have a projectile bomb on your hands. If you notice yours dripping, have it replaced. In plumbing school we learned of a incident in a school where a 50 gal water heater's PRV valve was plugged off by a janitor, he thought he was fixing a leak. Well it so happened to be a malfunctioning thermostat on the tank causing excessive pressure tripping the valve, the heat increased, the pressure built up, and boom projectile bomb that leveled half of the masonry block school killing some kids. The pictures of the aftermath were unreal, it looked like downtown Bagdad. Myth busters tested that theory and launched a tank a few hundred feet in the air. All new water heaters and boilers have a few fail safes built into the controls to shut it down in an emergency, but PRV's are still the most important safety feature.
 

OldeEnglish

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Equipment
B7100D, MMM, B205 Dozer Blade, woods m48, b2910
Jul 13, 2014
768
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Western, MA
For the guys out there that like to drag wood around with their tractor, burn pellets, or bio mass, check out the link below. Open the link, go to the bottom of the page under product info, and check out the .pdf brochure. Viesmann is a German company that has set standards in this industry over the years and make top quality products. They aren't cheap but you get what you pay for.

https://www.viessmann.com/com/en/products/Solid_fuel-fired_boilers.html



You can even use your tractor to feed these units! It's a really good brochure to read, there is a lot of information in it.
 
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OldeEnglish

New member

Equipment
B7100D, MMM, B205 Dozer Blade, woods m48, b2910
Jul 13, 2014
768
7
0
Western, MA
The Germans are more advanced than us in the heating industry and always have been. Under their European website Viesmann is the first to develop a hydrogen fuel cell boiler, that is amazing to me.

If you read the above brochure, you will notice a few pictures of their style of radiator wall panel. Wall panel and radiant heat is all Europeans use, they don't even know what fin tube baseboard is!

There are a few other boiler manufactures that have their own style radiator panel but I'll link a few more common manufactures below. The best feature of these panels and towel warmers is that each heater can be balanced. That means every room will be able to heat evenly, or you can make other rooms warmer that the rest (great for a baby's room). They can also be easly drained, removed for wall painting, filled, and air purged. Baseboard can not be balanced unless there was a thermostat zone for every room.

Hydronic Alternatives - this is what I have in my home, a bit more pricey than fin tube, but well worth it. http://www.hydronicalternatives.com/

Runtal - excellent quality, twice the weight of hydronic alt, but MUCH MORE expensive. I've installed quiet a bit of this product in colleges and state funded projects where money is no option. They have a very unique look to them and are also found in high end homes. http://www.runtalnorthamerica.com/