Thinking about building a trailer

[GreensvilleJay]

even funnier fact...
steel rots out wayy faster than wood if used in trailers pulled on southern Ontario roads.
went 60 kliks on sunday(24 miles....) black trailer was pure WHITE from the SALT......
that 'white death' gets into every nook and cranny and no amount of 25c carwashes gets rid of it !

 

[GeoHorn]

Which is why my WOOD deck is safe.

I have seen a lot of really old wood structures. No so much with steel. 5 times longer?

I was joking with that purely made-up “statistic”.... just a WAG.

I actually store my trailers outdoors and so they get full benefit of the elements. The pressure-treated wood (plank-deck and treated plywood-fenced) trailer lasted almost 20 years until it became so weak it would flex and the forward deck punched-thru when walked upon. This is the one I converted to all-steel just this last weekend. I completely stripped it down to frame, laid purlins for deck and angle-iron/expanded metal fence and tailgate. Painted with red-primer Rustoleum for appearance.

I also have a trailer I built-up from an axle and it’s all steel, made of heavy-wall square and rectangular tubing and pipe, decked with 8” steel purlins and fenced with expanded metal panels. It has lived outdoors for about 18 years and is as solid as the day I finished it. While the steel purchased was primed, I painted it with a dozen $1flat-black rattle-cans from Home Depot. It has not rusted despite sitting outdoors its entire life. It’s sitting beneath trees and has lumber stored on it. The lumber was new but left-over from a project and I needed the floorspace so stored it on the trailer. The wood is deteriorating but the steel trailer is without any evidence of trouble.

I have 20’ commercial-built double-axle pipe-construction and it has a wood deck made of 2x10s and 2x8s. It is only 2-1/2 years old and the wood looks like it may last another 2 years at most. I’ll replace them with purlins also, which will outlive my grandchildren.

My close friend down at Lockhart has a custom Mennonite-built freight trailer which has treated-wood deck thru-bolted...not screwed... to the frame with galvanized bolts. It’s stored indoors in a barn for it’s entire life (when not being used) and was built in 1991. It’s wood deck is planned for replacement this year because the wood is deteriorating. It’s going to be a pain-in-the-azz because of all those thru-bolts he thought were superior to screws he had those Brethren utilize.

We don’t use salt on the roads down here in Texas, so YMMV.

 

[Njtool]

Update

I priced out pets today and it’s not as bad as I thought it might be.
For a 10k tilt trailer build, I will need about 1400 pounds of steel. At a cost of around $1.40 a pound I’m looking at around 2k for steel.
Two axles with brakes, springs, and tires is about $1580
For a total of $3580. That’s not including lights etc.

For a 14k trailer I will need 2000 pounds of steel. So I’m looking at $2750 in steel.
Two axles with brakes etc will be around $1885.
Total is about $4615. Plus electric etc.

So the 14k trailer is about $1100 more. The reason I’m thinking about the larger trailer is because sometimes I haul logs for my mill etc. although I’m questioning if the heavier trailer is worth the extra money.

I figure another 1k for hydraulic, lights, coupler, incidentals. So $4500 for the 10k and $5700 for the 14k.

Just an update if anyone is interested. I notice people usually don’t share prices and it might come in useful for someone.

The local cost of a 10k trailer around me is around $4500. If I build the trailer I can design it how I like, I think I want a tilting trailer so I don’t have to deal with ramps.

As for hours of my time, I enjoy building things and it will be a fun project for my and my kids.

As for decking, i will mill my own so there wouldn’t be much of a cost for me.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

I was curious...5T = 10K trailer I figure ??

Miska Trailer Factory | Tilt and Load | 5 ton - Tilt & Load

Canada's leading trailer manufacturer. Dump trailers, open utility, floats, aluminum and enclosed trailers custom built factory direct to your specifications. Get a quote online.

www.miskatrailers.com

about $6300 USD,though I don't know about 'apples to apples', you can compare....
local shop TOUGH they make 'tough' trailers,they also sell parts....

The real killer up here is road salt..I've seen 4 year old powder coated trailers in the scrap yard,rotted out.

 

[Njtool]

Yes. 5 ton and 7 ton trailers.

They use a lot of road salt around here too. It sucks but that’s life.

If I decide to build a trailer, I’m sure I will end up spending more money on upgrading things, but that’s the fun part.

 

[TX Chris]

I special ordered a 20' utility trailer with a 2' dovetail on back - it's 83" wide, has D-rings all over the place, upgraded ramp with spring assist, extended tongue for room to mount a winch to pull cars up and 3,500# axles with brakes on each axle (my truck stops better with the trailer than without). This trailer is a dream for my L3901 with a BH77 out back.

Then my L3901 was destroyed in a fire and I upgraded to an MX5400. Now my totally awesome, absolutely perfect trailer is seriously outclassed by the new tractor (read: I cannot use it to haul my new tractor). For that matter, my half-ton max-tow F150 is looking a little puny.

All that to say this: if there's any remote chance that you might ever need or want a bigger or heavier tractor, plan for it now.

 

[NHSleddog]

I wanted a 10K when I went to purchase mine. It was advertised as a 10K. When I got there and looked at the tires I said, these are 14k wheels/tires - the salesman said "sometimes they put them on the 10K's it is a benefit to you".... No, it turns out it is a 14K titled that way as well.

$6500.00 for it new. It is hot dipped galvy.

I wanted the tilt to eliminate the ramps and decrease the load angle (no more dragging ass). I wanted the two more feet for attachments. I sold my perfectly good 20' aluminum (7K) trailer to a member here and bought the new one.

If you use it a lot, for me the tip feature is WELL worth it and I would gladly buy one again.

The added benefit of the 14K for me is the occasional mini-x I rent is about 10,000lb and I always get nicked for the trailer rental with it. On my new one, I can haul it with ease.

 

[MNVikingsGuy]

I would only tow 9,000 lbs on a public road at 75mph via a homemade trailer if I was either so poor I was "judgement proof", or if I had shockingly good insurance. Any serious accident towing a homemade trailer with that type of load on it is just asking for the lawyers to get involved. Self assertions of having sufficient skills will get you nothing in front of a judge or a jury. There will undoubtably be some ISO/OSHA/DOT/etc rule or two the average person will miss, let alone no "engineering design sign off", no weld load testing QC process, etc, etc. It's all fun and games until the fire dept is trying to lift a 2 ton tractor off a Corolla with a couple of kids in it. Accidents can happen even with the best equipment, but "homemade" makes for an easy target.

But if this is just for use around the farm/ranch - sounds like a cool project and will interested to see the progress. I have thougt about something similar but in the log hauling variety as we clear some of our trees and move them on our property for milling.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Talk to the DMV / DOT as some states require different plates and fee's for both the trailer and the truck towing it.
Here 10K or greater gets a different classification.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

The world's oldest wooden building

www.cmpcmaderas.com

Building For Life Blog | Whirlwind Steel

Check out our Building for Life Blog for updates, insights, and tips from experts on designing and manufacturing steel buildings and components.

www.whirlwindsteel.com

 

[NHSleddog]

The Cornish Covered Bridge in Cornish NH (still open to traffic) was built in 1866 - 23 years before the Eiffel tower. It runs between NH and VT. It became somewhat famous during prohibition. The METAL roof has been replaced 2 times now and it is ready again.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

re: I would only tow 9,000 lbs on a public road at 75mph via a homemade trailer .....

My homebuilt 5by8 went to the East Coast(Ont to PEI) TWICE in one summer(back to back), fully loaded with ZERO problems. The guy who borrowed it was so impressed he wanted me to sell it to him.
Just like eggs, there's diferent 'grades' of homebuilt trailers, sounds like you've found some very substandard ones. I've seen too many $$$ priced 'commercial' ones up here that I refused to repair due to the 'from factory' defects. It'd be intersting to see the stats on trailer accidents though .'m betting it's not where it was made but rather 'overloaded', 'bad tires', 'improper load', 'poor driving', no tiedowns, tow vehicle too small, etc. that cause 99% of the accidents.
In your 'tractor vs Corolla', sounds like the tractor left the trailer..if so, NOT the trailer's fault. The person responsible for SECURING THE LOAD would be liable...as well as the driver.
As for the 'engineer sign off', it really means nothing..scrap of $$$ paper saying 'appears to follow general accepted practises' or some other 'not my fault' dribble similar to CPA doing your taxes, at least up here it is. Maybe the law is 'stronger' south of the 49th ?

 

[asgard]

"As for the 'engineer sign off', it really means nothing..scrap of $$$ paper"

I think your are deluding yourself as to the liabilty and the interest both the Police and the legal profession would take if something was not upto code.

I am a Professional consultant structural/civil engineer in Ontario, and when I issue a certificate of compliance or a structural report you can bet that if it says your building is subpar, you won't manage to sell, live in it or insure it.
You might be right on trailers but please do not make general statements about engineers -- unless you are one and do not hold yourself competent.

I own an LB welding galv trailer with wooden boards and after many years they are showing signs of degrading. Anyone have any thoughts on replacing with a composite deck board?

 

[BigG]

"As for the 'engineer sign off', it really means nothing..scrap of $$$ paper"

I think your are deluding yourself as to the liabilty and the interest both the Police and the legal profession would take if something was not upto code.

I am a Professional consultant structural/civil engineer in Ontario, and when I issue a certificate of compliance or a structural report you can bet that if it says your building is subpar, you won't manage to sell, live in it or insure it.
You might be right on trailers but please do not make general statements about engineers -- unless you are one and do not hold yourself competent.

I own an LB welding galv trailer with wooden boards and after many years they are showing signs of degrading. Anyone have any thoughts on replacing with a composite deck board?

The composite lumber has almost no structural rigidity. It is also very heavy and would make a poor trailer deck.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

re: Anyone have any thoughts on replacing with a composite deck board?
Sure, lots of thoughts, even some practical real world experience with it but....as you're' a Professional consultant structural/civil engineer in Ontario, ', I would have assumed you'd have 'done the math', 'checked the charts' and performed at least one small 'tral' or real world test as to the suitability of the material for 'trailer decking'.
I didn't need my 5 decades of engineering or my PF full of eng sw, to know what would happen but did a simple real world test 5 years ago. I removed the 2by8 PT from my 'car hauler' trailer,installed composite decking(free, from local decking company), drove 3000# tractor and placed at same location. Before I could take a test drive ,the decking was bending under the stress of the weight. So, obvious conclusion... as a DIRECT replacement , it cannot be used. It can be used with several modifications to the trailer but then the trailer will no longer meet the 'specs' for what it was tagged as.

as for general statements about engineers, here's 4 specific ones

An enginee(cival, hydronic specialst he says...)r says it's fine to extend the culvert with 300mm(12") sections even though the original section is 6" x 10' , reduced to 4" x 20'. Any wonder why the road floods during ANY rainstorm ?

An engineer(City hall employee,bldg dept) demanded that the bents(12x12) of a small timbe frame structure have 14' long holes bored down the center of them for threaded rods to strengthen them. He said he didn't know HOW to drill the 1.25" hole, just that it 'had to be done'.

An engineer does the T-test for septic system next door, says it's 'T-45'( terrible). His test holes were maybe 12" deep, so he never hit subsoil as I KNOW there's 2 FEET of 'Holland Marsh' quality topsoil there.

The engineer who designed the BX23S should remove the fueltank following his directions in the WSM. I'd pay to see that !

yes there are good engineers, but in personally dealing with some, I've not been impressed, cept for the one who helped design the CanadaArm. While I couldn't explain in his 'technical terms' WHY his 'gizmo' wouldn't work, he figured out 'the math' ,revised his drawings and THEN it worked as required.

 

[MNVikingsGuy]

re: I would only tow 9,000 lbs on a public road at 75mph via a homemade trailer .....

My homebuilt 5by8 went to the East Coast(Ont to PEI) TWICE in one summer(back to back), fully loaded with ZERO problems. The guy who borrowed it was so impressed he wanted me to sell it to him.
Just like eggs, there's diferent 'grades' of homebuilt trailers, sounds like you've found some very substandard ones. I've seen too many $$$ priced 'commercial' ones up here that I refused to repair due to the 'from factory' defects. It'd be intersting to see the stats on trailer accidents though .'m betting it's not where it was made but rather 'overloaded', 'bad tires', 'improper load', 'poor driving', no tiedowns, tow vehicle too small, etc. that cause 99% of the accidents.
In your 'tractor vs Corolla', sounds like the tractor left the trailer..if so, NOT the trailer's fault. The person responsible for SECURING THE LOAD would be liable...as well as the driver.
As for the 'engineer sign off', it really means nothing..scrap of $$$ paper saying 'appears to follow general accepted practises' or some other 'not my fault' dribble similar to CPA doing your taxes, at least up here it is. Maybe the law is 'stronger' south of the 49th ?

As for roll over - structural trailer failure can cause roll over.

As for "quality" question - you may build a tank - but in court that will matter very little if a paid engineer can point out some technical shortcoming in your welds or some DOT consultant can show you missed a relevant regulation. What looks to be simple common sense in the real world looks very different in the courtroom. Folks can do what they want, but just do so with eyes wide open.

 

[asgard]

Regards the composite deck it was only a question, Thanks for your insight, and testing it, that has answered the question.
Not all engineers are actually that, I understand your concern. I have dealt with City, Municipal, and Federal for years and that is why I am happy not to have to deal with them anymore. I have had metric drawing converted to imperial by some.

 

[NHSleddog]

A "blanket" statement about engineers, is no different than an engineer making a "blanket" statement about every home shop builder. - Touche'

No knock on engineers (I come from a family of them), but their main product is a sheet of paper. It is very rare that you meet an engineer with hands on/field use.

A drawing does not make a strong weld. A "stamp" from the DOT does not make a strong weld.

A welder with good welding skills makes a strong weld.

Having lived on both sides of the engineering fence, I can say that for the most part they get it closer than not. Most people by nature either build over strong, or too weak. Engineers are supposed to do the math and get it right the first time.

All that being said, If I decided to build a trailer, I have no doubt that it would be stronger/safer than any I have ever owned before, without any seals of approval.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

re: I have had metric drawing converted to imperial by some.

Yes ! REAL numbers... inches, feet ,chains and rods......REAL Numbers

What's always 'humoured' me about 'Metric is best, that 's why Canada went Metric is....
everyone reports speed in kilometers per hours, snowfall in sillymeters BUT when the Amber alrets go blaring out they ALL say 'be on the lookout for a male, 6' 3" tall, 200 #s' Never EVER hear anyone say 197 sillymeters, 60 kilograms...... NEVER

as for trailer building.... unless you're a super talented welder, with $$$ equipment AND 'deep ' pockets, stay away from aluminum for building them ! While they look pretty,they'll corrode..seems Ontario salty roads love them.....and when it breaks down, try finding a guy to do roadside repairs..... Nice thing about steel trailers...EASY to fix....LOTS of guys ,everywhere can make repairs for you...

 

[NCL4701]

Glad I read this discussion about trailers built by anyone other than a manufacturer with a staff of engineers. We have a 5x8 my Dad built as a welding project in college using a beam axle from the front end of a Plymouth something which he found in a junkyard back in 1955 when he built it. Ran that on the road for several decades but now that I read this I’m thankful we relegated it to full time off road use when we put implement tires on it earlier this year (6.00 x 16 tires aren’t popular road tires these days). Probably dumb luck it’s made it 65 years without killing somebody seeing as how it never had an engineer emboss it with their PE stamp.

The 5 ton tandem axle flatbed; I guess I’ll need to scrap that thing. No PE stamp on that either. A welder certified for steam fitting built it in about 1989. He had jigs set up at his home shop for 16’ and 20’ equipment trailers. He made about 2 per month for 10 years or so before we bought that one but he wasn’t an engineer so there’s no telling how many Corolla’s full of toddlers he was responsible for crushing. That’s a relatively new one at only 30 years old so maybe that’s why it hasn’t broken in half yet. DOT inspector was good with it recently, but come to think of it, he wasn’t an engineer either so what does he know about it. (Yes it has been maintained and updated with a breakaway kit and standard 7 pin RV connector.)

All sarcasm aside, I truly have tremendous respect for engineers. There isn’t much that would get made without them.

If you truly want to understand how important, essential, and truly superior to “normal” people they are, ask three engineers. Odds are two of them won’t adequately explain it because they haven’t grasped the full scope of their superiority. The third will explain in great detail why 99% of the population is too stupid to open a pop top soda can without instructions from an engineer stamped on the can, and then will pontificate at length on the severe legal and medical consequences of not following those instructions to the letter.

Making a trailer is a project that should be taken seriously, but it’s not an airplane or skyscraper. There’s a reason I can run over to Northern Tool or get online at eTrailer or go to a variety of other places and buy all the components to build a trailer up to about 7 tons without any difficulty. Someone other than a trailer manufacturer building a trailer without the blessing of an engineer which still meets DOT spec isn’t exactly a rare occurrence.