Thinking about a vintage tractor project

[lakebota]

I'm considering a vintage tractor resto project as a hobby.
Tractor would be a compact or small size tractor usa made and 40's or earlier.
Parts availability is a concern. I did a little preliminary work searching the www it seems there is some amount of resto parts available for many of the major brands.
John Deere, Ford and Farmall's seem to be common, less so are Allis Chalmers, Case, Massey Harris and Oliver less so.
Anyone into these and anything someone new should watch for besides typical beware items such as hack jobs, missing major components, and severe damage (i.e. cracked/broken castings).
I'm sure others have been down this path and being a retired engineer helps me in assessing before delving in.

 

[ShaunRH]

Owning an older tractor (as I do) and working on several pieces of 'antique/vintage iron" (as I do) has it's enjoyment factors as well as being frustrating as heck.

Frustration can be lack of a part, or unable to get to a part, or breaking something else while fixing something else. There are a few things that you have to remember about older tractors:

Everything on them was probably made in a machine shop, so a machine shop can make any part you cannot find, it's just more expensive than an off the shelf part.

Most parts were made to be 'field repairable', meaning that you can actually fix the unit while it's broken down out in the middle of your field. I've even seen entire engines rebuilt that way with the plow still in the ground and the front of the tractor hanging out there like a piece of field art. Obviously this is not optimal, but if you consider the lack of 'remote service' or heavy recovery vehicles back in the day, this was what you had to work with and the tractors supported that.

Power was harder to come by so they made it up with torque and gearing. In some ways it made it simpler, in some ways, harder.

Automatic was a futuristic term that meant "Lazy Tractor Driver".

Ergonomic would've been interpreted as some kind College Educated City Slicker insult to a farmer.

Efficiency was focused on manufacture as it meant a less expensive device. Operator Efficiency was how quickly you could master pushing in that pedal, twisting that knob, pulling the other lever and double-tapping the control arm.

So, if you want an older project tractor, I'd suggest one of the more Classic Models, a John Deere Tri-wheeler, an Allis-Chalmers B/G Model, a Farmall or the SUPER easy, still running strong Classic... Ford 8N/9N/Jubiliee which are probably the most common critters there are out there that are still daily drivers.

 

[D2Cat]

lakebota, being an engineer, living in N. Calif, wanting to restore a USA made tractor and 1940's or earlier..... I couldn't think of anything more appropriate then a Cat. A D2, D4 or one of the smaller gas models.

Lots of older machines in your neighborhood for parts.

There are a couple of antique Cat clubs online to get a lot of assistance from.

You'll have fun and end up with an unusual machine.

If you choose, anything up through a D2 can be pulled on a trailer with a 3/4 ton PU to get to parades and shows.

 

[Diydave]

I was born and raised running AC tractors, anything in the D series is good stuff. D-10-s and 12's share nearly all the same components, the 12 is a 2 row tractor and the 10 is 1 row. I also wouldn't rule out a B or CA, but they are harder for those of us with pot-bellies to get on to...

Oh, and the largest AC dealer, in the US was in CA. And there is an unofficial allis web page, and most importantly, perhaps, they are ORANGE

 

[lakebota]

I appreciate the solid advice and will be spending time researching some of those models.
ShaunRH,I have two in the family with heavy shop equipment and have the part making covered. One of those, and another family member have 3 johnny poppers. I need to find something different, perhaps obscure and interesting history a plus.
I've been repairing, rehabilitating and enhancing (I refrain from saying restoring because I like a little patina and history). all sorts of furniture, structures, infrastructure, cars and trucks, and small motor implements since a youth. Would love to find something in at least somewhat survivor condition to avoid a puzzle to make factory as much as possible.
D2Cat, the thought has crossed my mind and when looking for tractors did see a cable cat but too large for my shop. You are right, I've seen and been involved with development and construction in steep terrain. There is a lot of scraps around, maybe be able to find something fairly complete hiding in a barn.
DIY Dave, I've seen but one ac and know little about them, and will be checking them out as well.
thank you all

 

[Corney]

I don't know if it's vintage enough for you but you might want to look at a Ford 9 or 8N?

Parts are readily available and they are easy to work on. Lots of them around.

It's to bad your in Cal as I am going to be selling my 8N and I just put a pile of money into it that I will never get back! I just don't need it and a bota and I really have no interest in vintage tractors.

 

[Diydave]

Problem with an 8 or 9 n is that after you dump $1200 into it, it's prolly worth $1100 on the auction market...

 

[sheepfarmer]

Problem with an 8 or 9 n is that after you dump $1200 into it, it's prolly worth $1100 on the auction market...

Actually my 8N totally unrestored but kept inside for at least the last 30 years, running well, good loader, leak in exhaust manifold, sold for $2500 to someone that intended to use it. Other working versions of 8N sell for 2700 or more around here. There are a lot, since we are just down the road from where they were made, Dearborn. Making it beautiful might cost more than it would recover. But I would have liked to, that was a fantasy from my younger days.

 

[Corney]

That's about what they go for around here as well. A restored( done well) unit can bring $4500.

I'm sad to say my bota is torn apart in my buddies shop but I was doing wheelies down my driveway ( my wife was watching, so I was showing off) yesterday on my 8N!

 

[ShaunRH]

A perfect condition Jubilee will pull around $4K-$5K for show quality.

If lakebota is just in it for the learning challenge, an 8N/9N/Jubilee is a perfect warm up with about a break even return cost for the parts and materials. You're out the labor time you spend but that's what learning is all about.

If he wants a real challenge, you can still find most parts for an AC D-17 (I know, I have one) and those came in GAS, Propane and like mine, a Buda 262 Diesel! It's a good mix of available parts, ones you might need to get creative with and a solid tractor. One that is about end of life can be had for around $1,000-$1,500 and restored for about $3K in parts. If restored to show quality, they can sell for almost $10K. Field quality restore will only get you about $5K from a farmer that has an itch to farm with an older tractor in great shape, there are just more modern units with more power for the same price.

Personally, if it's about the money and you have access to a machine shop, I'd scour the tractor salvage yards and find something from the 1900 - 1920 era. Fully restored, those works of art go for serious dollars, and the more obscure, the better.

 

[mikeee54]

here is an example of a pretty nice condition resto. I enjoy these type of projects very much but for this price I think I would enjoy having it more...........

http://prescott.craigslist.org/grq/4996549933.html

 

[ShaunRH]

Parade ready but not show ready. It's a decent deal for the age and type of unit. You could use it for light traction work but it's true field days are behind it.

You could probably get away with this one for less than 2 thousand...
http://www.auctiontime.com/OnlineAuctions/Details.aspx?OHID=9357171&lp=th

However, a quick look around shows D-17's even in pretty rough shape going for $4K. Maybe I should restore mine!

 

[lakebota]

Well, I have leads and assessing several options. A couple farmalls, a cat d2 with the pony motor, and an oliver cle-trac for starters. I really like the thought of a crawler. I am just starting looking and will soon let the word out with family.
I'm more apt to settle on a complete original than something already started or done. I have the space, ability and time to do a complete ground-up so condition has a wide range of acceptable to me, provided it was not left completely open to the elements (froze up mechanicals would be a bummer).
I'd love to fond one along the lines of what Shaun RH mentioned, pre 30's although a depression or WWII era model would be very nice as well.
I generally approach my projects slowly and wait for the right one to show before pulling the trigger.

 

[Diydave]

here is an example of a pretty nice condition resto. I enjoy these type of projects very much but for this price I think I would enjoy having it more...........

http://prescott.craigslist.org/grq/4996549933.html

All painted up and shined with left tire on backwards...

 

[CaveCreekRay]

Too bad you are so far away. My neighbor is fixing to sell his Ford 8N and its in pretty sweet shape. He has used it to groom his driveway...

 

[ShaunRH]

Here's a nice flickr page with lots of old/antique tractor iron on it. Some good examples of show tractors and some field working tractors as well.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/joeross/2837436135/

The Jubilee is nice because it appears (to me anyway) to be the best expression of the 8N/9N line. I'm not much of a gas tractor fan as there is so much more to worry about going wrong with it during operation, but they were the life blood of the small farms for the last century.

Steam tractors are really cool, but man are they a lot of work and fuss, and mess, and ugh... Love to watch them, would hate to work on one!

I too love the old CAT's but starting that little pony motor to get the main one running looks to be a real PITA. Not only do you have two motors to deal with now, but one is gas the other is diesel! I'll be that's been messed up a few times in history. Naw, if I did an old Cat I'd convert it to electric start and make it a worker. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tq5hl9RQsP0

 

[lakebota]

More time spent browsing 4 sale's, info and pic pages. Lots for ford 8's 9's and jubilees and farmall's available They seem just too common to interest me.
Ironically, talking with my brother in law, he has a couple d2's, early 50's. One an orchard tractor ordered with a pony and electric start, he's the second owner, the other was a worker with a blade on front, much more rough. Both have been setting several years since he picked them up. He's likely to never do anything with them.
A steam engine would be interesting, I served on a crew operating a steam engine that ran a demo stamp mill for three seasons. Fun but talk about starting procedure, wood fired boiler, as you mentioned a dirty job to run.
I'm planning to stay patient and wait for the right piece. I'll know it when I see it.